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So what's the point of having UT4

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament' started by DarkEmperor, Nov 21, 2014.

  1. DarkEmperor

    DarkEmperor Buried By The Dead

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    when we have UT3 that is still looking fine and plays fine as well? (it's practically the game UT99 gamers ever wished for as the sequel, contrary to ut2kx which was an insult, (clown gameplay with midgets), the reason I abandoned UT.

    Why did the community betray UT3 when UT4 is practically UT3 at this point? (same weapons only small as sticks, pathetically looking like burnt bones of mummies, same ballistics, the speed is a bit faster which is easily configurable in UT3, the gameplay is the same except double jump -which isn't a big deal anyway-) The community could easily embrace UT3 which is a fine game and develop it further with no need of... remaking UT3. WTF.
    I haven't played any UT since 2002 and have started playing UT3 few days ago, very delighted but so disappointed by the lack of players, so please enlighten me about the situation.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2014
  2. ambershee

    ambershee Nimbusfish Rawks

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    UT4 is still a prototype. It's in no way representative of a final product.
     
  3. Rambowjo

    Rambowjo Das Protoss

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    UT3 had a lot of different problems.

    Before launch, Epic released a beta which also functioned as a demo. It had a lot of problems, both gameplay wise and from a technical standpoint. IIIRC it only had vCTF and maybe one deathmatch map? Anyhow, this demo/beta did a lot of damage to the release of UT3.
    So as it launched, UT3 still had a lot of issues, but had improved on a lot of the things people complained about in the beta. It still got a really bad launch because of that. A while went by, before the black edition patch was released, which fixed a large number of issues in the game, actually making it an okay game. It was too late though, the game was pretty much already dead at this point.
    Design wise, UT3 kind of dug its own grave with the vehicle modes. They are fun for a bit, but quickly lose their depth. Meanwhile, nobody is playing DM or CTF, because vCTF is 'more fun'.
    From an art stand point, UT3 is technically a good looking game, but it was still ugly, and the grimy dark themes were not at all conducive to the game play. It was hard to see players, most of the time you couldn't actually tell things apart, because you had all these winy black tendrils of Gears of War enveloping everything.

    And of course, then you have the awful single player, where Epic legitimately tried to explain why the UT game types are relevant to real warfare. The flag in CTF for example was actually some type of nuclear power rod. Or something. I don't know. Also respawners.
    The ladder in UT2k4 was fun to play. I quite enjoyed it. The incredibly weird attempt to kind of combine UT and Unreal in UT3 just did not work at all.


    TL;DR awful bug riddled launch with half cooked gameplay and awful art direction. Eventually it became a semi decent game from a gameplay perspective, but it was too little too late and still looked like shit. The game was pretty much dead on arrival.

    And to answer your question about why we are 'betraying' UT3, the answer is simple. There just isn't enough players. When UT2004 came out, it was instantly game of the year, everyone was playing it, with thousands of servers. Endless torrents of maps and mod. It was glorious. You just can't get the same amount of people back into UT3. It's a 7 year old game at this point. The only way to revive UT is by making an entirely new game, where Epic can properly use everything they've learned, and make sure the game gets the kind of exposure it deserves.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2014
  4. JohnDoe641

    JohnDoe641 Killer Fools Pro Staff Member

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    lol, no man.

    The beta demo and the release were the exact same thing, no bug fixes, no changes it was just the full version of the demo. That's why it got a bad launch.
     
  5. Rambowjo

    Rambowjo Das Protoss

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    I'm almost 36.42% sure it had a ton of stability fixes? Gameplay was identically awful, I agree.
     
  6. HugoMarques

    HugoMarques ☆☆☆☆☆

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    DarkEmperor is probably thinking the weapon models are being recycled, when in fact they are just placeholders. Epic is making sure they fine-tune the gameplay before moving on creating new content.

    The titan pack did fix a large number of issues in UT3, but also killed multiplayer for me because every single server from then on had that really awful spammy titan mutator.
    Also let's not forget that every stock map in UT3 was littered with visual clutter that made it difficult to identify players thus straining your eyes too much.

    UT4 (or apparently just UT now because fuck heritage) is currently an alpha. Apparently you don't like alphas. Check back in a year, I bet you'll start to get the point...
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2014
  7. EisWiesel

    EisWiesel ... !!!

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    It should also be mentioned that UT3 was designed for the console in the first place like gears of war. If u look deeper into the UI, u will find out that its worse to use on a PC... characters and voices where also very similar to Gow.
    And as mentioned, maps are full of clutter which is nice for eye-candy but bad for fast and competitive gameplay. On the other hand, weapons and vehicles make a nice gameplay, an improvement according to ut200x (personal opinion).

    I loved to play UT3 (Vctf and DM) for some time but it was hard to find servers with other people. they where mostly empty while ut99 had still a lot of active servers with lots of players.
     
  8. DarkEmperor

    DarkEmperor Buried By The Dead

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    Thx Rambowjo and everyone else. From what I've read I can only be sure that the new game will be DOA as well... I don't see any way of attracting new players to the franchise, old-UT99-timers that didn't like Ut2k4 have lost their interest in UT and moved to other games, while there are some Ut2kx enthusiasts who felt that UT3 underdelivered. Personally I used to play only DM-TDM-LMS fanatically and some CTF, so I'm closer to what UT3 offered, but I guess I'm part of that RIP minority now...
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2014
  9. Razorjack

    Razorjack Lone Walker

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    What's the point of an UT4? Profit, I guess. Due to the name alone the game will sell.

    I am not sure if UT3 was the sequel that the original UT gamers wished for. There is no substitute (or sequel that acts as such) for UT!!! And besides, UT3 was clearly designed for the console. UT3 was a decent game when there were actually populated servers. Had great times in VCTF and Warfare.
     
  10. N1ghtmare

    N1ghtmare Sweet Dreams

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    It isn't just another UT. First, it is a UT being built will full disclosure of content to the community, including rigorous design discussion and community-made content. Go see the official UT forums. There you will find what the actual UT4 weapons may look like.

    Second, they are going to put serious effort into giving it the best chance it has for a successful and growing community by creating a marketplace for modders and a potential e-sports scene, which we have seen grow into the FPS genre recently.Epic has also chosen to make it a free game to attract as many players (new and old) as possible.

    Third, UT3 has been dead in the water. I can't log into gamespy to play online and I can't be bothered to find the fix because I know that the online community is dead (my account not working before gamespy died didn't help much either).
     
  11. ambershee

    ambershee Nimbusfish Rawks

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    You know it's 100% free, right? Not even free to play, just free.

    There is no 'fix', when Gamespy went down they took their user accounts with them. Epic are hosting the user account servers now, all you have to do is create a new account.
     
  12. Razorjack

    Razorjack Lone Walker

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    Woops, lol no I didn't know that. I stand corrected :lol:

    We'll see how it turns out, finally another PC game to look forward to :D
     
  13. Selerox

    Selerox COR AD COR LOQVITVR

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    Weapons that don't need reloading will confuse me...

    Look at this way, it costs nothing but time, so it's worth looking at.

    Might take a break from Planetside to take a look at it :)
     
  14. leilei

    leilei ANIME ELF'S !!

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    UT3's "designed for console" criticism always made no sense when UT2's menus were similar.

    I mean, id software never got any flak for having a 'dumbed down' button-driven hierarchical menu system for all of their games and I don't see anyone harping them about not doing Doom3 menus for everything after D3 came out.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
  15. ambershee

    ambershee Nimbusfish Rawks

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Really?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
  16. leilei

    leilei ANIME ELF'S !!

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    Yes. There's sections divided from tabs at the top, confirm/cancel buttons at the bottom. What's just gone is the two column arrangement, understandable regarding input simplicity and larger, legible text on the screen. Information overload (like the bunch of detail checkboxes) are moved into a submenu. and because of that ITS WORST UT EVER!!1!!!!!1!1
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
  17. ambershee

    ambershee Nimbusfish Rawks

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    It's not information overload, it's presenting everything in an organised fashion. Image output is on the left, rendering settings are on the right.

    Everything is one one page and is easily accessible.

    UT3 has only six options on display. If what you want isn't there, you have to go to second layer advanced settings tab just to see the next six options. Take into account there's a four second animation each time you go between menu pages, and you end up accumulating quite a lot of lost time just flicking between tabs and their multple sub-pages.

    In UT3 'Black', the advanced menu has something like 30 options, in no apparent order, just mashed into an awful list. The sliders and check boxes are all aligned in such a way that it's not immediately obvious to see which box corresponds to which option without first highlighting it. Enumerated options such as detail settings are sliders instead of drop-downs. It's functional, but as an interface it's deficient in almost every way (heck, even the descriptions of what each option does is completely unhelpful):


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
  18. N1ghtmare

    N1ghtmare Sweet Dreams

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    Well gee I'm sorry I didn't literally mean "fix" as in "solution for problem". Still can't be bothered to do so since there is nobody online to play.
     
  19. papercoffee

    papercoffee coffee addicted !!!

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    UT3 is too slow for my taste ...and too cluttered with eye-candy (but others has already explained it) Too much "realistic" shiny dirt.

    I hope UT4 will be better downward compatible then UT3 ...I'm not able to buy the next better PC to just play a game. I have to look after a cheaper but also weaker system.
     
  20. Arnox

    Arnox UT99/2004 Mod Crazy

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    I didn't go to UT3 for much the same reasons as everyone else.

    1. Level design was indeed too cluttered, dirty, and also looked too dark.

    2. Menu was confusing and consolized. Even with the massive update. Slow too in some spots.

    3. Some features present in UT and UT2004 were just missing.

    4. Some of the traditional mods that I consider to be essential for UT were not made at all for UT3 like a full gameplay tweaker (Arena Physics, Stuffswapper, Tweaktool) or a massive and awesome high-quality weapons mod. (U4E, ChaosUT, Ballistic Weapons)
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2014

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