Security concerns at the Sydney Olympics

[ShakKen]

*aherm*

One of the things we learn in SOT is to OSP weapons. One can never expect to be served with a silver platter expecially in the case of getting your firepower. Weapons and ammo are relatively easy to aquire when compared to transporting them(red tape city even for military units when you transport in small numbers). Hence, we do recieve some training hooking up with the neccesary foreign military(or otherwise) personnel in getting what we need. And I assure you, for something as big and heavy as well as complex as a surface-to-air missile, it would take allot of money and resources just to buy it discreetly conceal it for transport and get it on site for deployment than any run of the mill terrorist (or even military) unit is willing to spend.

What's more, there is little hope of getting away after deployment since SAMS leave one huge IR signature(you can trace it back from point of impact because of the vapor trail the propellant leaves even in the driest climate) making evasion or escape non-viable. The terrorist may be a fanatic, but quite often he isn't stupid. They may appear suicidal, but suicide is always their last resort.

I know my stuff friend, and those chaps in the blackhawk have little in terms of odds of a SAM being deployed against them to worry about.

ShakKen
Infiltration
3D artist

[This message was edited by ShakKen on Aug 07, 2000 at 13:27.]

 

[Catalyst]

Hmm

Can't you just throw the thing in the back of a cargo van? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

<FONT SIZE=2 color="#A5AA56">Catalyst</FONT><FONT SIZE=1 color="#A5AA56">
Infiltration Public Correspondent</FONT>

 

[INF_Neo]

btw:
what's Ninja mgs???

Neo
I N F I L T R A T I O N
Sound Engineer

 

[OICW]

Ninja is the Cyborg Ninja or Grey Fox (his unit codename) off Metal Gear Solid. It's a Playstation game where the emphasis is on stealth, not running around guns blazing. Probably one of the best games ever made (and I don't just mean on the PSX.)Btw Shakken, sorry for calling ya dense.

Hand to hand, is the basis of all combat. Only a fool trusts his life to a weapon.
Ninja, MGS

 

[ShakKen]

Hai, Dozo.

ShakKen
Infiltration
3D artist

 

[Derek]

Ok, here is where I begin to think you're beginning to fall off your rocker.

"Maybe i should go public about the lack of proper security."

It's my opinion that you're getting just a little bit over-zealous on the subject. I understand you being Australian and all, but if you'd just think for a second, you'd realize that:

-you aren't the only one who knows about the terrorist threat and its possible ramifications.

-its not like you know anything everybody else doesn't already know.

-Therefore-

You should calm down a bit, its not like you're gonna call the press and say "Hey!, here's some urgent news: terrorists have threatened the olympics, and I'm scared shitless! Yeah, you trust me on this, I have sources".

You are a teenager, there are millions like you, they watch too many movies, they over dramatize everything, they think they're "special", they don't realize that olympics security is actually being taken care of, and that the people in charge thought of what you have yet to think of, many months ago.

<IMG SRC="http://nonickderek.homestead.com/files/sig.jpg" BORDER="0" ALT="Yep, its true" >

 

[DeadeyeDan[ToA]]

I hate generalizations.

I'm a teenager. I don't act that way. I realize that the Aussies do have people and security measures to worry about these kind of threats. I'm not special and I don't know everything. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

My best friend is a teenager. He could give a f*ck about 95% of the stuff that happens around him... and in that other 5% he isn't exactly jumping around screaming, either. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The most overdramatic, oblivious person I have ever met is in her late 30's. The producers of 60 minutes just say "DANCE puppet, DANCE!" and she gets up and starts flailing her limbs. I swear, one damn article states that a fraction of a % of x kind of businesses use deceitful and dishonest business practices (and the victims in the article are just as much at fault as anyone else), and she wants a brand new f*cking federal law to try and stop it.

I haven't met many teenagers that want the goverment to step in to protect people who don't read the contracts they sign, think that coffee that says "Warning: Hot" on the cup is served cold, or in any way disregard common sense. There IS probably alot more than I know, I just refrain from talking to those crowds... but the point is, all teens don't think alike- idiots come in all shapes, sizes, and ages.

_______________________
Shot four puppet governors in a line,
Shook all tha world bankers, who think they can rhyme,
Shot the landlords, who knew it was mine,
Yes, its a war from the depth of time!

 

[Derek]

As I teenager myself, I understand you completely, but its just too easy to generalize when 99% of the teenagers you interact with fall under the "brain-dead and loving it" category.

<IMG SRC="http://nonickderek.homestead.com/files/sig.jpg" BORDER="0" ALT="Yep, its true" >

 

[DeadeyeDan[ToA]]

Yea, I can see how it's hard. But it ain't 100% yet, so you run the risk of pissing people off when you say stuff like that (especially when they don't know if your part of the age group).

It's like this one day I almost got hit by a dumb biatch middle aged woman in an SUV. She just switched lanes right toward me, didn't even try to check her blind spot. Hell I'd be surprised if she even looked in the mirror. Later that day, another middle aged woman in an SUV was in front of me, we were both turning left at a stoplight. I don't think she understood stoplights, because she had a green light with no oncoming traffic in the other lane for 2 freaking blocks, but she didn't go. I honked after a little while, she turned her head around then looked forward again, didn't go. Finally, before the oncoming traffic even got close, the main light turned red and she got the green arrow, and finally she went. I picked up a friend and went back to my house, and in the little residential neighborhood there's a 4 way intersection, with yield signs for the east and west roads, no signs for north and south. I was heading north to south, and saw another middle aged women in an SUV going roughly 15 mph over the speed limit west to east, she didn't see me and didn't slow down, and I could see that she was going to end up flying through the intersection and hitting me, so I slammed on the brakes and came to a stop short of the intersection, which I guess she heard, and slammed on hers, too. Ended up right in the middle of the intersection, right in front of me, at a complete stop. She looked at me and then drove off. I looked over at my friend and said something like "Oh my f*cking god, middle aged women in SUV's can't drive for shit." He starting laughing and said "Oh, yea like your mom?"... it was then that I realized my mom fit that description, is actually a great driver, and doesn't deserve a comment like that.

Ok, story time is over. I hope that looks much less long when it's more spread out in the actual post, if not, I apologize to those who read it. I'll shaddap now.

_______________________
Shot four puppet governors in a line,
Shook all tha world bankers, who think they can rhyme,
Shot the landlords, who knew it was mine,
Yes, its a war from the depth of time!

[This message was edited by DeadeyeDan[ToA] on Aug 08, 2000 at 14:46.]

 

[OICW]

Hold on guys!!! Ever hear of "letting off steam"? I was just pissed off and feeling a bit insecure. I didn't mean, for goodness sake!!!!!!! Besides, who would believe me? Gryhpon, sure but me? Never. I just was feeling a bit angry, that's all. Anyway, Shakken raises some good points but the point is, it's still far too easier to disperse a chemical or biological agent amongst the crowds. remember the 95 subway bombing in Tokoyo? I just think that it's easier to smuggle in such weapons, possibly even nuclear into Australia compared to the US.

Hand to hand, is the basis of all combat. Only a fool trusts his life to a weapon.
Ninja, MGS

 

[Bad.Mojo]

That is a good point, but a better point is who would want too?

Terrorist attacks always boil down to hardline beliefs. Even if the terrorists are freelance, the people backing them must have some reason to kill that amount of people. This isn't some simple sociopathic rampage, people that are angry at the world don't sit around to stage a well planned attack. And nobody has anything against Australia. If they wanted to place a viral communicable disease into the human population that would spread quickly, the best continent would be Africa, and the best countries would be India and China, if they're that discerning. Australia doesn't hold economic value, extremists political beliefs, geopolitical strategic positioning, or anything of the like that could possibly warrant such an attack.

It would extremely easy to wipe out the population of Canada too, 90% of us (30 million) live in extremely close proximity to the United States border. That doesn't mean anybody wants too.

Like I've said, we've had two terrorist incidents in the past two decades, the FLQ and the Mohawk uprising. The FLQ was a minor terrorist group funded kidnapping of a government official, and the mohawk uprising was more of a protest than a real terrorist threat, even though the government treated it as such.

<img src="http://badmojojacket.homestead.com/files/bmj.gif" alt="Bad.Mojo: Born to Kill">

 

[Zundfolge]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> And nobody has anything against Australia. [/quote]

gotta disagree there, as far as much of the world is concerned, Australia (and for that matter Canada) are just puppets of the United States, plus a terrorist attack at the Olympics goes beyond what country it's being held in.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If they wanted to place a viral communicable disease into the human population that would spread quickly, the best continent would be Africa, and the best countries would be India and China... [/quote]

hmm... kinda makes you wonder about AIDS doesn't it /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

All this said, however, I think a terrorist attack at the Olympics in Australia is less likely then an attack in the US (much easier to get weapons and personell into the US then Australia) And other then one little bombing things went well in Atlanta (and that bombing has not been claimed by any terrorist group, they like to claim their work).

Also, don't think for a minute that the Australian government is being allowed to handle Olympic security by itself, all the nations sending athletes there will have their fingers in it too.

"People hate me because I am a multifaceted, talented, wealthy, internationally famous genius. "
Jerry Lewis

 

[Bad.Mojo]

gotta disagree there, as far as much of the world is concerned, Australia (and for that matter Canada) are just puppets of the United States, plus a terrorist attack at the Olympics goes beyond what country it's being held in.

lol. You get the moron prize. Only a genuine fucking idiot believes that the United States truly runs the world show. You know you tried to bully us into following your Cuban embargo, and we laughed in your fucking face and said not likely? You know you said you'd freeze our economic assets in your country and we laughed in your face even harder? Face it, as much as you'd like to believe that all the industrialized nations fear you or listen to your "big bad country's" influence, we don't. Only third world countries are scared of you, and they're just as scared of any other industrialized nation, including those nations not held within the G7 or NATO.

As far as terrorist attacks, it has EVERYTHING to do with what country its being held in. Terrorists have agendas. The IRA, for example. They hate Protestants. Say the Olympics were being held in Ireland. Would the IRA deploy a chemical weapon and risk killing thousands of Catholics just to kill a few protestants? No, they target specific Protestant groups. Unless you have something against the country itself, you don't target it. Its pointless. And even then, that makes the Olympics an extremely poor target, because either way you're going to be kiling involuntarily the people that you are trying to elevate. The only people that would target a massive attack like that are psychos who just want to kill people, and don't care if they're black, white, brown, red, yellow, Hindu, Catholic, Taoist, Protestant, Muslim, Buddhist, or anything else. And in that case the likelihood that they'll have enough resources to actually mount such a directionless attack (more so than a pipebomb) is so low that its not even worth mentioning. Even Timothy McVeigh's attack on the federal building was a targetted, calculated terrorist attack, it wasn't random, it was directed at the government that he hated.

All this said, however, I think a terrorist attack at the Olympics in Australia is less likely then an attack in the US (much easier to get weapons and personell into the US then Australia) And other then one little bombing things went well in Atlanta (and that bombing has not been claimed by any terrorist group, they like to claim their work).

Its actually extremely difficult to get weapons into the United States. The Canada/US and US/Mexico borders, as well as the airports and any major seaport entries are all thuroughly gaurded enough that any such entry is slim-to-none. The only way you could possibly smuggle any weapon into the states is if you had a bonded materials warehouse and then shipped them off to an international trades and storage facilities, to be pulled out later. It just wouldn't fucking work.

Bottom line, all you people who think you know all about terrorism because you watched a few discovery channel documentaries and read the latest issue of Military Hardware know jack shit. Practicality, intuition, human understanding, and a good idea of the law will beat out your "i-wanna-look-smart-to-people-who-don't-know-better" type of logic any day.

<img src="http://badmojojacket.homestead.com/files/bmj.gif" alt="Bad.Mojo: Born to Kill">

 

[Zundfolge]

Everybody's a fuckin expert

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Only a genuine fucking idiot believes that the United States truly runs the world show. [/quote]

I agree, and I think Usama bin Ladin and others like him are genuine fucking idiots too (why don't you read the fuckin post before switching into asshole mode)

also, if you thing you can't drive a truckload of guns/explosives/biotoxins across the US/Mexico boarder, the you win the moron prize.

Thousands of mexicans come across that boarder every day, and only a small fraction of them get caught. Not to mention the TONS of narcotics that come across the boarder (narcotics are just as against the law as explosives)

In my younger (and dumber) days, I made a couple of trips across the boarder between Texas and Mexico, carrying guns and coming back with recreational chemicals. If I can do it you can bet your entire ass someone who is motivated by extreme politics can do it.

In addition to being able to import guns/explosives/biotoxins into the US with ease, such things are not that tough to get once you get here (well I don't know about biotoxins, but I know any jackass can get his hands on guns and explosives).

So Mojo, what experience have you got with the US Mexico boarder way up there in the great white north? I'd be willing to put my actual experience up against your "Practicality, intuition, human understanding, and a good idea of the law". Or are you just pulling some of that "i-wanna-look-smart-to-people-who-don't-know-better" type of logic yourself?

"People hate me because I am a multifaceted, talented, wealthy, internationally famous genius. "
Jerry Lewis

 

[Zundfolge]

Oh yeah, as for your so-called secure Canada/US border. What makes you think that cigarettes are are that much different from bombs?

Maybe you've been buying too much of the government sponsored propoganda that is put out by both our governments about how well they protect our borders.

"People hate me because I am a multifaceted, talented, wealthy, internationally famous genius. "
Jerry Lewis

 

[Bad.Mojo]

Okay, so I was a little harsh in my post, but yeah.

Smuggling drugs and light small arms is completely different. You can run across any unprotected area fairly easily with a few pieces of heat in your back pocket.

To get enough equipment across to actually mount a psychotic fucking attack against a bunch of people takes alot of hardware, more than you can cram into the tight ass-pouches of your Levis.

And since the typical terrorist cell has become alot smaller in recent years, meaning the individual terrorist has more large weapons to carry. Trust me, somebody transporting a thermonuclear device is fairly easy to spot. Large transport trucks that don't know transport truck regulations stick out like a sore thumb.

Just trust me on this, would you? There's to much to explain in way of vehicles, weapon sizes, terrorist psychology, and all that, which I have studied as a semi-hobby (the same way i study serial killers for fun.) I just know these types of things are alot harder to pull off than you might assume. As for government propaganda, believe me. Both our governments would rather have us believe that terrorists threats are very simple. That puts more trust and faith into the governments than we need to put in them, which allows them to more freely control our lives, while we let them, voluntarily at that.

<img src="http://badmojojacket.homestead.com/files/bmj.gif" alt="Bad.Mojo: Born to Kill">

 

[Zundfolge]

Sorry for the harshness of my reply (I don't take well to being called a fucking idiot, and I don't expect you do either)


I'll give you the short version of my story.

It was the summer of '87 and I had just graduated from high screwl, so me and a buddy of mine went down to El Paso to hang out with his cousin.

We expected to drink some beer, smoke a little bud, chase some pussy, and just hang out. But we get there and find that he's a small time drug dealer.

On the Friday night, my friend's cousin says we need to go get some "supplies", so we load up his beat up old blazer with 2 shotguns and 2 pistols (not really a terrorist army but the plot will thicken in a bit) and we head out into the desert on an old dirt road. We end up in Juarez (sp?) behind some dirty old bar, my friend's cousin goes in and comes out with this real big smelly mexican dude, and we go to his van and procede to load up about a dozen bricks of pot (approx. 4"x4"x12" each) and a mysterious black bag with who knows what in it. We drive back across the desert to El Paso and see nobody the whole time.

The next nite was the same routine, only on the trip back we saw a caravan of 4 trucks, 2 pickups with big toppers on them and 2 u-haul sized trucks (the same size as the one used in the Oklahoma City bombing). At this point my friend and I (who have been on the verge of nervous breakdowns the whole time) just about shit our pants. But his cousin said don't worry man, those are just coyotes (guys who transport illegal aliens across the border for money).

So I can't help but think that those trucks could easily be loaded with guns and bombs instead of frightened mexicans.

keep in mind that there is something like 1 border patrol agent for every 15 miles of border (not sure if those are the exact figures but it's close).

While I may not know much about the psychology of terrorists (or serial killers for that matter) I do know something about the logistics of moving things across the US/Mexico border. Frankly, I'm amazed that there a ren't more terrorist attacks in the US like the World Trade Center bombing.

Honestly, I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but if believeing our borders are well defended helps you sleep at night, then don't let me stop you from thinking that. But the truth is the US and Canada would be much easier targets for terrorist attack then you'd think. Maybe we're safe from a unit of tanks or a fleet of warships, but the lone loony with a vile full of a biotoxin or a suitcase with a nuke in it could easily get into the heart of both our countries /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif ˜

"People hate me because I am a multifaceted, talented, wealthy, internationally famous genius. "
Jerry Lewis

 

[Katalyst]

i think ur basicly right o-man. In California the Chinese government was selling firearms to local gangs. They were selling rocket launchers, Ak variants, hand grenades, and a lot of stuff that i just can't remember. They used major ports and freighters to carry the contraband. I saw this in a SOF mag. The US customs caught them eventually but they sold quite a few weapons first. So my point is that if I was a billionare terrorist like Bin Laden i would have stingers in sydney already. If they can get weapons in the US they might have already gotten them in canada.

 

[Katalyst]

reasons for attack

I agree with u mojo on me not knowing any specs but i do know that a person could assemble a home made device very easily, that could do a lot of damage also. Another thing is that a terroist action don't even have to go down near the olympics as long as it is in Sydney. The world's media will pounce on anything that happens anywhere in the city and give the terrorist the platform they want. Mojo an early post of your's said that no one would attack the aussies becauseit does matter what country they attack, but the attack may just be targeted at capitalism, democracy or the countless dignataries that will show up to C the olympics. I need some one of a little age to tell me if there was an incedent in previous olympics. I thought that some thing happened to some athletes, but i'm no sure.

[This message was edited by Binary on Aug 11, 2000 at 01:31.]

 

[Bad.Mojo]

If I recall correctly, there have been three terrorist attacks at the Olympics since the 50's. However, they were all either targeted at specific groups, or small scale (such as the atlanta pipe bomb)

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