Reinforcement settings...

[EtherRex]

I would like to see the respawns kept very low. 3 max.

What id also like to see is theeffect of halting respawns until a designated number of people are waiting to respawn (say, half the team). This way people would be encouraged to advance as a squad rather than leging it on their own to get to the front to provide support for their team-mates who get killed just before they get there and have to do the same.....

 

[ZIRB]

3!!!

 

[ant75]

Totally agree with etherrex. If we must have multiple respawns, some kind of "grouped respawn" is needed, so that inf really become again the squad-based game it claims to be.

 

[ZIRB]

I vote for grouped respawns too.

 

[Beppo]

ehem... the respawns are grouped actually due to the wave timer...
well nobody waits for others to die to get back into the game and rules for such a system would behard to make so that it stays enjoyable.
So, you can "force" groups by ie setting the wave respawn timer a bit higher... maybe 40-60 seconds... 90 is a bit high most times cause who wants to sit around watching the spawn area for one and a half minutes all the time. Sure, another reason to watch your life more carefully but deaths do happen and if you have to wait the full 90 seconds then it can be a bit hard.
Don't forget that the overtime settings are normally cutting the defenders life down by a percentage. Means that defenders have even lesser respawns at first. In combination with the time limits this can get critical if only a few guys play on each side.
So, a nice number in between should be found, 3 was fitting for most situations but 4 or even 5 would be ok too. I tend more to 4 actually. This would give the defenders ie. 2 or 3 lives right from the start (depends on overtime settings of course) giving them a better chance to survive a bit longer. Overtime jumps in at 50% of the time limit on most servers and with an average time limit of 20 minutes the matches can end up with defenders waiting for the overtime and the attackers completing the mission even before the defenders had a chance to jump into the action again.

Again, 3 reinforcements (means you have 4 lifes total) are perfect, 4 would fit good too. 0 or only 1 ... well... would suck hard most times and 2 would limit it too much for the defenders then, again due to the overtime settings.

Some maps would be cool with a big bunch of reinforcements if the total amount of players isn't that high. Thinking about ie Ruin with 16-20 people running around within during the whole match would end up as a frag fest.

Well my main concern about many respawns is a result of the 'I don't have to care about my live too much' situation that then shows up. Some defenders would try to move into the direction the attackers are comming from to catch them right on their way... maybe even investing their own life to stop one or two of them.
Sure, this happens in regular matches too but most times only if the attackers were already pushed a bit back and the defenders fortified some forward posts already. And some lonesome guys always flanking and nading near the attackers spawn area can be annoying too. If your life isn't that important and the wave respawns aren't too long, the map isn't so big that you need ten minutes to get to the same spot you died before then this forwarding will show up right from the start and not after pushing back the attackers. Even for the attackers this can end up to be an invitation to try to kill the defenders close to their spawns with a high risk of being killed yourself... well but you can get there again pretty fast so it doesn't really matter then.

Again, this can show up with a lower number of lives too, but the higher the value the more will actually 'try' doing these things.
Just imagine a group of attackers running into an area trying to kill as many of the defenders as possible even risking their own lifes by throwing nades wildly and emptying their mags and drums wildly too cause they do not need the ammo some seconds later anymore. This done a couple of times to get all the defenders that have not as many respawns than the attackers right from the start due to the overtime settings will ruin the match. Killing all defenders with a high risk of loosing your own life but if you take one defender with you then everything is 'ok' calculation-wise. Then waiting for the next respawn and accomplishing the mission with the defenders waiting for the overtime to jump in. Can get a 'bit' out of control then and would push it a bit towards the CS and TacOps playing style...

just my opinion of course...

Beppo

 

[Hadmar]

I currently tend thowards zero respawns simply couse respawn camping pisses me off so much that the last time it happened I left the server after the round finished and stopped playing after only one map instead of spending the whole evening playing Inf.

 

[TOAD]

One of the main reasons that attracted me to this game besides the awesome free aim system is the fact that there was no respawning (INF 2.85). Oh yeah I got whooped hard when I started, I would run straight down the street being so used to UT Instagibbing all the time. Of course I got taken out of the game within the first minute. I learned to be careful and value my life more after I got the hang of it. When I play 2.9 now with all these crazy waves, that old feeling is lost. I've been in games where I propably killed the same defender couple times on my way to the objective, because when I killed them and they "caught the wave", they would run right back to where I was and tried to kill me. Anyway, I would rather play these maps where there's no respawning, and the defender would spawn where the CD is unless both sides are attackers and can win by getting the CD.

 

[Beppo]

One of the main reasons that attracted me to this game besides the awesome free aim system is the fact that there was no respawning (INF 2.85). Oh yeah I got whooped hard when I started, I would run straight down the street being so used to UT Instagibbing all the time. Of course I got taken out of the game within the first minute. I learned to be careful and value my life more after I got the hang of it. When I play 2.9 now with all these crazy waves, that old feeling is lost. I've been in games where I propably killed the same defender couple times on my way to the objective, because when I killed them and they "caught the wave", they would run right back to where I was and tried to kill me. Anyway, I would rather play these maps where there's no respawning, and the defender would spawn where the CD is unless both sides are attackers and can win by getting the CD.

Well zero respawns would make it almost impossible for the Attackers to win a round. One defender committing suicide by running into a group of attackers with a live nade would be enough. Or a well placed sniper...
Matches would be over in about two minutes or even faster and defenders would be the guys that win most of the time.
Reinforcements are not the thing that stops these playing styles but it gives the game and maps a bigger chance to be played for a couple of minutes more than for only a short guns blazing and that's it.
And to the fighting the same guy that "caught the wave"... well simply increase the wave timer delay a bit and you will get enough time to set yourself up.

Oh and "respawn camping"... well in most maps you can get out of the situation... use smoke or whatever is needed but you normally can find a way out of the situation. Sure some lamers toss grenades over walls and buildings right into the spawn area all the time but for those you have the vote for KICKING those guys. Sure they are on the other side but with a bit of talk they normally can be stopped doing this. And if not... wel, then do not let them get so close to your spawn area in the first place. All games do have these problems and our sniper actors can only provide a bit of cover for you... work as a team to get out of the situation... normally you can.

 

[Tiffy]

I like the wave respawn. It give you the cahnce to experience how it is in real life in an attack on a real defended position. If you just have 8 guys a side then its just two fighting patrols meeting. If you have your 8 guys against 32 defenders in depth then that is a good simulation of a section attack. The fact you respawn if you get it wrong is an advantage to keep you in the game. Take pride in finishing a round as an attacker with all your respawns left.

The spawn camping problem and palyers getting to palces in maps where they shouldn't be is a bit of a problem at present. As the maps get changed or fixed it will lessen but its up to the teams to police there side. Kick the bugger who keeps CHEATING. On AFA I ask people to not do things like this when I see them and on one occasion spent my time shooting one guy who just wouldn't learn and kept getting behind the enemy spawn on a hill. Its not fun or clever to spawn camp.

Equally though when you respawn then move, do something. If you just stand there like a lemon then someones going to take a shot at you eventually.

 

[MP_Lord_Kee]

I also feel that the respawn is not such a bad idea at all. It does give the sense of a bigger engagement, as Tiffy did so well explain. And I like that.

Vote kicking is not always working because if some in the team are new etc, apparently they don't dare to do it. Or just ignorant. Or something, dunno.
I have also witnessed a player who had made a "special" spawn camping loadout with 10-15 nades that he did toss randomly with 2 seconds intervals at the enemy spawn. That did tick me off pretty badly. Thankfully that arse left pretty quickly once he noticed such behaviour wasn't appriciated.

Another thing that I don't like is that when I lay down prone at a decent defensive spot, I almost always see members of my team rushing past me to advance towards the enemy as quickly as possible. There I am, patiently waiting, with noone watching my sorry butt. Usually they end up dead and then I'm alone trying to defend.

BUT, its not just bad things, 95% of the time the rounds are very good. Had some awesome, pure fantastic, teamwork oriented action packed rounds yesterday.
Only regrets I have is playing infiltration has more or less killed my TV watching and I'm missing out on several shows I used to follow...

//Kee

 

[Rostam]

Another thing that I don't like is that when I lay down prone at a decent defensive spot, I almost always see members of my team rushing past me to advance towards the enemy as quickly as possible. There I am, patiently waiting, with noone watching my sorry butt. Usually they end up dead and then I'm alone trying to defend.

I always pick 2 or 3 guys, if I am lucky 4 or 5 that seem to like teamwork and tell them what I am covering, and ask them to cover another place.

They usually do listen. Which is nice. You can focus on the path you are covering alot easier if you know the others are covered as well.

Of course I am the kind of guy that only joins a server if he is sure something around 4 out of 10 are good people. For me there is no point in playing INF if I am not playing with the people I enjoy playing with.

 

[TOAD]

Well zero respawns would make it almost impossible for the Attackers to win a round. One defender committing suicide by running into a group of attackers with a live nade would be enough. Or a well placed sniper...
Matches would be over in about two minutes or even faster and defenders would be the guys that win most of the time.
Reinforcements are not the thing that stops these playing styles but it gives the game and maps a bigger chance to be played for a couple of minutes more than for only a short guns blazing and that's it.
And to the fighting the same guy that "caught the wave"... well simply increase the wave timer delay a bit and you will get enough time to set yourself up.

As a former participant of RAIL I would have to disagree, those conditions created some very intense matches. As for these waves representing a larger group operation, I would rather have all soldiers available to attack at once. Frankly, I believe the more guns pointing at the enemy the better. An idea would be to get each human player controls a few bots as a team leader, then when the player dies, he/she would take control over one of the bots... heck, I don't even know if this is possible with the UT engine, all I'm saying is that I prefer the small group operation style because these waves are better fitted for CTF games and don't really simulate a large scale operation too well.

 

[RaekwoN]

I love how those opposed to having higher reinforcements have their little scenarios all filled out for how the game will play. We all know how the game plays at 3 or 4 reinforcements, how about someone making the 2 keystrokes required to actually test this for a few hours. Then maybe come back and describe the matches you've experienced, rather than imagined.

 

[barkjuice]

Actually now that you stated it that way I have to agree. Mayber a few "training servers" or some such would not be a bad idea.

I as a new person like this idea. I have always shied away from the populated servers simply because you really get tired of hearing everyone call you "n00b" and that "you suck" blah blah...So to have a server dedicated to beginners (or "trainees" as it were) is a great way to cultivate some future good players and teammates.

Just like in real life, training is important. You never just dive in feet first, especially in combat...that only creates two things: Lucky heros and dead soldiers.

I hope that the arrogance disappears from multiplayer FPS simulations and the "veterans" of INF do what any good veteran of combat does: trains the future veteran.

 

[DarkBls]

....e you really get tired of hearing everyone call you "n00b" and that "you suck" blah blah...

Never saw that kind of behavior on-line. But might exist.

An idea would be to get each human player controls a few bots as a team leader, then when the player dies, he/she would take control over one of the bots.

Like the idea !

 

[barkjuice]

Never saw that kind of behavior on-line. But might exist.

It does exist... happens quite often. Now.. maybe things have changed since the last time I played INF online with actual people (and wouldnt taht be just oo cool) but I doubt it... my experiences from a couple years ago playing it really turned me off from most multiplayer type games... the language, immaturity and lack of respect simply because one was "not as good or experienced" really was quite disheartening...

But back on subject, I think that that training server is an excellent idea!

 

[Da_Blade]

Never saw that kind of behavior on-line. But might exist.

Yeah, it happens quite often, INF community might not be as arrogant as the CS community, doesn't mean that we're not arrogant at all. Some players take their time to help a newbee, some ignore them, and some only complain.

 

[ZIRB]

It's a really really REALLY GOOD IDEA with a trainingserver! It would make me play more online since I play just randomly (bith online and offline) and a "soft start" online each time I'm about to play would make me play more since it take some time to reach that "online flow". Even if I basically got some skills above a newbie.

What can be done to fix a trainingserver?

 

[[C22]-Mort]

back in the 2.86 days and before our Company had broadband, Bugg & I used to play INF against two guys in the sales department (at lunch times and any other time the Boss was out ), and after many hours of play we settled on 3 respawns (any less and we were vote-resetting the round, or voting next map, too often as somebody would be dead and bored , and any more than 3 and it all got a bit rushy and spammy.

Now I know that 2.9 is different from 2.86 in terms of objective, but I still feel that 3 respawns is about right in terms of balancing the two problems above which STILL apply!

 

[Da_Blade]

I'm all for 4; gives you a bit more leverage. 4 for attackers; 3 for defenders with 1 in reinforcement. And 60 second waves, to really make the waves waves. 30 Second waves usually means everyone respawns on their own. With 60-90 second waves you really get a wave of reinforcements, as more people died in that time.