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Muffstuffer Is dead here is the scoop!!!

Discussion in 'Infiltration Development' started by -=Muffstuffer=-, Feb 21, 2002.

  1. -=Muffstuffer=-

    -=Muffstuffer=- New Member

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    Sorry about posting this here but, My password dose not seem to work on the TBT site. It is Infiltration related and My felow Former Teammembers Deserve more than me just Disapearing... There are some facts to be straightened out before any ruhmers get started. and credits due and thank-yous to be said. and also some advice for future TBT members. I have just cut and pasted this message here, I have removed all the top secret stuff as much as possible but I am pressed for time and this is just Cut and pasted from the Tbuildt forum. there was nothing top secret here I was just jokeing. I want to say goodbye to the Infiltration comunity and the unreal comunity as well, guess I can do all thease things here with one post.

    Yesterday I was thinking while I was laying out my Strike force map. I was thinking about how I should be doing the snow in My new map and was just about to post in the forum to get confirmation that my snow banks where to an exceptional height, then I thought What in the hell am I doing Snow fall is random some places that only get a couple of inches a year sometimes get freak blizzards and get a couple of feet... Then I realy started thinking about if I should ask or not. and said to myself "wait a Minuet I already Know Opti, He already wants my work, Why should I put myself through all the Team Frusteration again? I can just Submit the map to opti, the whole reason Opti wanted a team to do his maps is to reduce his filesize by the team only useing the same texture pack. Looking at this SF project Everyone will have to have their own texture pack to make all thease famous world places look good. I would have to make my own texture packs anyway,and this is absouloutly what opti wanted to avoid, he wants as few textures used as possible . I will have to make my old models also, So why am I going to Put my self through makeing another map that is going to be untested Just like my maps for infiltration? and then later have to share the credit of the maps creation and concept with a team that did not help me make it? And If it is lame, or there are errors it will not be the team at fault for not testing it properly, It will be me anyway. Then I asked myself the biggest question "WHY AM I DOING THIS TO MYSELF!?!?"

    I have been thinking of removeing my content from Desert Storm for a long time now, Looking at all my old maps now I feel realy embaresded on how the buildings are layed out, My scaleing was off by about 4inches for every 10 feet that is not noticable but makes me feel uncomfortable that I knowingly would realase something incorect like this. I feel that I owe it to the gammer to give the best work I can possibly do, not to give out lame stuff like pro companys constantly do.I have learned alot about makeing textures also, the ones included with DS were some of the first ones I had made, not bad for a newbie but I can make sooo much better now). My meshes all have holes in them, and are unskined.They where ment for a project I was doing for newbies so they could have neat stuff to put in their maps and not worry about copyrights ,(sorry, Newbies,you have to eat poop again, thease meshes have to be destroyed now.).
    Science then I figured out a way around the bug (might not be a bug might be improper useage) in Meshmaker that makes holes and splits in your mesh. And knowing that info, That I can make stuff look right now and looking at my stuff in Ds with holes in it and no skins for them I Realy started to feel embaresed.

    The other day gull one fox came to me to change some textures and scale some textures. Everything he was talking about was just matters of opinion, and I am very pressed for time now. I would have had no problem changeing thease things. But then he started saying that they are wrong, and incorrect. My Building desighns only exsist in my head, How the hell can he possibly know if I got the door heights right or the window depth proper? the awnser is He CANT! go look at pictures from baghdad or anywhare else in the world and you will see doors and windows of all heights depths and colors (the doors were not like they where 10 fee tall, they are about 1 1/12 inches off what the hawaii state building code says an exterrior door opening should be. If he came to me and sugested something like "hey was checking out your maps the other day and notices some things that might improve the looks of your maps, I have been chatting with the other guys and this is what they think also" Man I would have been downloading and changeing things now. insted what came across is that my maps are incorrect , that they have major errors in them, that they are so bad that the maps cant be released without changeing these things. That there was to be no discussion about it and that if I wanted my dreams of geting a published game to come true I would have to cha nge My maps to someone elses likeing.and then he pulled his rank on me.BTW GF I can take suggestions and critisizem, I just dont take dictation verry well. especialy when the dictations deal with looks and taste.The silly thing is that I agree with you. I did want to change them but your lack of deplomacy made me verry self concious. made me realy feel bad about my work. and it was basicaly the straw that broke the camels back. It was what finaly made me decide to pull all of the content.You gammers will thank me My maps where going to be released without any testing on the gameplay, And I wass Getting realy nervous about my maps becomeing major flops, and have to make future patches (wich are embaraseing as hell, even non mappers can agree with this!!!)

    This situation reminds me of the story of Michal Angelo, or was it Davinci? I dunno, but anyway as the old story gose the pope had him comissiioned to paint some cathedrial. The pope did not like the colors he used somewhare and told him to change it... the artist refused. so the pope had him taken to the dungeon and the artist was beaten everywhare except for his hands so the artist could continue his work makeing the pope and the church look good... LOL! if I was physicaly there you probably would have had to resort to voilence you where at wits end. your power play blew up in your face, and there was no other way to feel victory over me unless you resorted to physical voilence. And I am sorry about this, I realy did not want to make you feel this way. I am Feeling bad that This is makeing other mappers do extra work on such short notice also. It sounds like you guys have to go back and fix some things in your maps anyways, It sounds like I am not the only one to just find out about the abosolute poly limit or the node limit.I was just going to pull my maps before but now I realy dont want any content in DS.

    I realy dont understand why my name had to be trashed in the team forum saying that I cant take a sugestion or feedback or some complete bull****. I was going to just quietly go away not asking for any credit in ds, and leaveing my content in and just pulling the maps. But nooooo My name has to get trashed a little...I am afraid of what kind of trashing would have happened if I left my stuff in. "Yea every thing looks totaly awesome except for the stuff that muff guy did it was all on short notice and the only models of furnature we had was this Terrable stuff muffstuffer threw together for his lame newbie help project. If I knew he was doing them like this I would have had him skin them all, they are not TBT quality" or something to this extent haveing to trash my name to excuse the appearance them. I realy DONT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN! I admit they look bad, and I am sorry. But even norman Rockwell had to start drawing with crayons before he figured out how to use a pencile and paintbrush (or was it chalk and magic markers? oh what the hell you get the point:)

    So I can realy see some Bad stuff happening here so I am out of the picture now. I am going to totaly leave the unreal comunity because of future slams and name Destroying that I can forsee in the future.I have already seen this in the team forum. If I keep mapping with unreal ed someone can easily say that I just joined the team to learn how to map used up team secrets and then left the team to map and use team knowlage to make that killer map.I worked hard for over 6 months for nothing.I realy Do NOT DESERVE to have my name SLAMED! I know times are hard and tensions are high. Leave me out of it I only sighned up to help the team out not to be Slamed and insulted. I am going to walk away now. I learned alot about the unreal game engine From Fist_MLRS. For this I will always be gratefull. If you dedcide to lead the team I am shure it will go places. Gull one fox has made it so you have some pretty big shoes to fill. He has done some amazeing things with the team and you will also!!! I am totaly confident in this. you are a good mapper and also a verry smart person when it comes to Game desighn. You can Help people out on every level of design from bot pathnodeing to texture creation, to makeing destroyable meshes.. you are organised and have alot of leadership abilitys just like gullone fox did. I think I will Miss you the most Fist, you have always been straight forward and honest to me. I realy respect your opinion on game desighn and on world issues also.....

    I am realy happy to see you guys moveing on to bigger and better things. I hope the team stays together you guys are just starting out. you have learned lots of things from the DS map pack and have a Big list of things not to do in the future. Infiltration was an awesome experament and seeing two of the lead team members leave and get jobs because of our work should make you and the team verry proud, stick with the team All you newbies!!! The team works! I can see more and more members geting jobs in the future from Tbuildt projects So make shure you put your Best work into TBT map packs because next time the spotlight might fall on you :) you will be rubbing elbows with people like Warren, And Optimizer. I can see the TBT team Getting Jobs left and right down the road and other team members benifiting greatly from this, so Make shure you spend alot of time on your projects and make them look good because the right people might see your team effort and give you a job just like sentry did for Fist and GF.if any team members deserve to get jobs out of this deal it should be them. they spent more time on the project than anyone . If tactical ops is going comercial soon Sf might be going soon also, they have backing from MGON,AMD,PC GAMMER, and a huge list of other companys behind their development. If not the whole team then maby the members that Opti chooses to share the spotlight with can stay with SF... you guys will be dealing with the biggest names in the unreal comunity and you will get lots of exposure...and some Jobs I am totaly shure about it.

    I am going to move on to other game engines now, it was fun learning unreal but I am not going to publish anything for unreal games because of the above political reasons. I realy DONT WANT A BAD NAME, nor do I deserve a bad name. Every newbie has to make his share of mistakes and I am no exception .

    By not wanting to distribute my mistakes I should not get any bad name from this. I know that there are probably going to be a bunch of posts after this telling me that I have let the team down. But in my mind I would be letting the team down by knowingly letting half-baked material be circulated. I have made a vow to myself after being inlightened to make Maps from real world objects and photos, so not to have any argument in the future from such nonsence as personal prefrences, and archectual tastes.it either will look like the picture or it wont.With this new team that I joined I am asking alot of questions up front
    and makeing alot of things clear, so around release date the only thing we are worried about is lighting and textures and pathnodeing, not the basic geometry the map is based on. this should be done at first.

    Fist or whoever takes control of TBT Here is a suggestion for you. Make what they call a Punch list. on this list jot down the projects intensions, themes,and so on. also in this punch list have Nessissary requirements like what the poly count and node count should be (before anyone even starts the geometry.) This list should be published on the team site and be treated as law. this way a few days before releaseing the mappack there is no "Oh by the way did I happen to mention that there is a poly limit" or "oh by the way Burryed deep in the forums there is a small post I did telling every one that there is a node count requirement". This should be let Known at the verry begining.. some other helpfull things on the list might be scaleing, you guys may already have noticed this buy strike force bots are not the same size as the INF bots that you are used to. Get the scaleing down and let everyone know...
    this should make teamleader role a little smoother down the road if there is not as much confusion.

    If there is any change to this list, everyone is to be notified by ICQ,or e-mail. And in the notification there should a message for the recipiant to go to the forum and post that he or she has read this andthis way you will know that the entire team has been notified. Mis-comunication will cause nothing but greif, and is essential to the concept of teamwork.

    you guys should go through the forums and post all of the information on mapping either in the tutorial section of TBT site or, If you guys Truly want to help out the mapping comunity and not just look like you are generateing webtraffic to your site, post the info in the unreal Wikii site where the information will benifit more people. and will also Give TBT a good name for helping out everybody.I am going to post all my Builder information there and some bot tutorials also befor I move on.


    Ok that is all I have to say :)
    Thanks again Most of my time with the team was exciteing and edjucational. I will never forget this experiance. It was almost a dream come true :) If it wasnot for GF likeing my first map camp diffrences, I would have listened to los picassos and quit mapping.I dont have any hard feeling tward anyone and I will always only talk about the good things TBT has to offer. also If I see an oppertunity for a team to get hired I will mention you guys (Good luck the last time a major team got hired by a video game company it was for John Romero's Daikatana, Unfortunatly it was one of the biggest flops in Video game history, Video game companys go through diffrent teams and pick and choose usualy and even then sometimes they remake the team half way though project.)
    I am goiing to try to remember only the good things about TBT and whenever a conversation comes up about the team I will only have good thing to say.

    Good Bye All It has been very edjucational, and Most of the time Fun :)


    Muffstuffer dies here and now. I am going to choose a new identy today so my future projects do not reflect on the happenings with this project. --==*SNIFF*==--,
    (Muffstuffer quietly lays down and shuts his eyes. Every bit of magical creative energy that has spawned and animated this Fictional charictor now leaves this room with his last breath.The energy spawns somewhare else on this vast internet in a new form, with a new name, now is not the end But an Exciteing Begining)
     
  2. SoSilencer

    SoSilencer Harry Goz (1932 - 2003)

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    Apparently it wasn't educational enough ;)
     
  3. -=Muffstuffer=-

    -=Muffstuffer=- New Member

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    lol thanks silencer

    Thanks for the spelling check :) when I change my Identity I am going to start useing a spellchecker so no one will recognise me :)
     
  4. fist_mlrs

    fist_mlrs that other guy

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    although you know you have my support you exaggerate a bit. nobody ever said that you can't take suggestion of feedback (althogh you can be quite pigheaded sometimes ;)). we recomened to change a few things at your maps because they just don't look like the other maps.

    yes, you and gull allways had problems. you both pissed each other up. you are both great guys, but you just don't fit together :) anyway, your name was never trashed in the forums.
    nobody was slaming your name.

    i allways said i understood why you were pissed of. i said the same to gullonefox. this isn't about the team fighting against you (definatly not) this is about the little private war between you and gullonefox.

    if you think about it i think you'll see as well that gf was only trying to get the work of the hole team looking right. you can't take criticism. this is my honest oppinion, and i think you know it as well. gullonefox hasn't told ou to change your textures and fix a few details to anger you, but because he was told so by warren.

    you are a great guy, and i was happy to work with you, i just wish you could work with gullonefox as well. you both were pissing each other off all the time and i sat right between you.

    but somehow it makes me sad how you seem to think that we try to slam your name :(. you know that is not the truth. at least you should know. gullonefox (sorry if i mention him all the time, but as i said this is mainly a fight between you and him) tried to make the team look as good as possible, he never ment to slam your name. this is just bull****. he told you to change these things in your maps becasue it didn't fit the look of the other ds maps. not to punish you.

    im sad it ended this way nonetheless.

    anyway, i wish you best luck for your future projects.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2002
  5. fist_mlrs

    fist_mlrs that other guy

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    btw, i think this could have been done with a email or private message as well :(
     
  6. fist_mlrs

    fist_mlrs that other guy

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    this is the only time the problems with your maps were metioned in the forum btw, your name wasn't even mentioned. how could it be slamed then?
    im sorry to say this, but i think the reason why you made this post is be cause you are pissed off. still this is no reason to write things you know that are not the truth. sorry, but all it does is making the team look bad

    edit: i just might add that im not going to redo all my maps just because you think your deco isn't good anymore. i neither have enough time nor the will to do this.

    anyway, good luke for your future. we had a great time, don't let it end this way...
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2002
  7. Gullonefox

    Gullonefox TBUILDT Webmaster/Mapper

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    Im sorry to be hearing this also... but its best you do go.
    1 this hasnt been an on going war.. Muff and I got on for somtime.. even talked using roger wilco for many hours... muff is a clever guy and talanted to, but dude you really have gone way over the top.. 2 when I told you about Warrens remark about the sky speeds in Op Baghdad you flipped..why I dont know its just sky speed and no need to get so angry.. the second time I ask you to change somthing is because your team made the point that your maps just dont fit the generic look of DS.. when I asked you the second time you said yeah do what you like GF they aint good anyway my scaling is soo much beter now.. the next night I double check with yah and BAm here he goes hes not happy.. What am I suppose to do? stick a 100 80)'s so I dont get taken the wrong way...??? Im mapping like hell got 300 ICQ messages comming through Im in a rush... You say whats up with the scaling and I said that your windows dont look right .. I also ment the ramps the walls and pritty much a lot of it to be honest .. but I havent got the time to answer with long paragraphs.. you know me Im a one centance wounder.. as the rest of the team know.. Im not wounderfull with my Grammer either when rushed so I dont always come across well to peole.. but thats my propblem not yours..

    Secondly no one slammed your name! No one.. the truth is your just not cut out to take any form of criticism.. Also If I do remember correctly.. I said OP baghdad was AWESOME.. which it is.. but I said the other 2 looked rushed.. which you yourself said was true as they where.... So what? so what am I suppose to do ??? muff you seemintent on causing me problems .. Why I dunno Being honest I did make a remakeark/joke about giving you a good hiding, but that was a joke... thats why it had 80P faces after it.. But dude you realy did upset me when you said you where pulling everything... Deccos textures and maps.. just to get at me you hurt the team, sorry man that dont ring right with me.. send me an email complain but dont get way over the top and hurt the team... Anyway.. Good luck dude I do wish all the best.. I wont have hard feelings toward you but it just dont work out.
    Man good luck and I mean that you seem very into Radiant..
     
  8. jaymian

    jaymian Sweet Merciful Crap!

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    wow

    and I mean wow. Things are crazy over at tbuildt it seems. I was starting to wonder, with people leaving and all. I hope you guys don't go pulling maps out of the DS mappack because of childish skurmishing. It's times like this that I am glad I'm a lone mapper. I'd love my maps to be in the "official" mappacks, but at what cost? Seems like too much give, for little take. I guess we'll see. I hope you guys get everything worked out. Have a few beers.
    Jaymian
     
  9. smithnwessun

    smithnwessun Gravel

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    Jay...dont think im leaving cause i hate tbt...i luv this team ...im just leaving cause i wont map much for now and i dont want to slow the team...these guys are great...
     
  10. OpFor

    OpFor Feeling suicide, thats O.K.

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    Hmm, sounds like the TBT team is having some trouble.... Maybe today was a bad time to give GF an email....
     
  11. Intruder2k1

    Intruder2k1 Modeller/Mapper/Animator

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    whoa..........

    Christ thats a lot of tpying.........to much for me to read....Can someone give me the Cliff Notes?
     
  12. GeordieBoy

    GeordieBoy Proud to be a Geordie

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    That's one hell of a long post ! Hope you guys sort everything out, the TBT maps look awesome and I can't wait to play em.
     
  13. Anrky

    Anrky Frag you... Frag you very much...

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    Man that is one bad case of verbal diarrea!
     
  14. fist_mlrs

    fist_mlrs that other guy

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    please don't insult him either, he is a realy good guy if he calms down...
     

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