Movements almost intact...

[Sir_Brizz]

Its not like Brizz hasn't made his unique points before. I've already made my point and that is that dodging was generally easier to do in u2xmp since in the ut2004 engine there is a little fix against this that seperates the gameplay slightly. In the current build UTXMP uses UT2004ish dodging while it should be more U2XMPish, shouldn't it. I and many others think its important and Brizz think it's not cause he "hates" U2XMP.

I would like you to show me anywhere I have said anything remotely close to that other than instances in which you have inferred that is how I feel. Your pointless rambling is nothing more than dribble. You ought to try not saying stupid things just because you think you are right and I am wrong. There are people who agree with me (and most of them just don't give a crap) but most people start whining about how I must love UT2004 better than U2XMP because I think the movement is JUST FINE versus changing the stupid dodging.

And lets make one thing clear, it's NOT an exploit damnit, and even if it is its now a part of U2XMPs unique gameplay. Boost jumping is also a bug, why did FMI bother to bring that one to UTXMP when Ut2004 engine prevents it when playing Ut2004? BECAUSE IT MADE U2XMPs UNIQUE GAMEPLAY which SHOULD STAY!

BY YOUR DEFINITION OF >EXPLOIT< THE ABILITY TO TYPE GOD IN THE CONSOLE IN-GAME WOULD BE FINE AS LONG AS IT WAS BUILT IN TO THE GAME AND MOST GAMERS DIDN'T GIVE A FLIP. How is boost jumping a bug? In fact, please explain to me how you came to the "realization" that boost jumping is not in UT2k4? I can do it just fine... it must just be you.

This thing with it beeing easier to dodge just didn't fit the UT2004 style of playing and therefore there is a fix preventing it in that engine while it DOES fit U2XMP. Why should this fix that is suposed to work for UT2004 apply for UTXMP when UTXMP tries to ressemble the gameplay of U2XMP?!

Being able to dodge before you even get to the ground? I don't know about you, but I can't strafe to the left in mid air. Not that that makes much of a difference, but the "2k4 dodging system" (as you call it) is much more realistic than the U2XMP one is. And the difference is about 1.2seconds.

I don't even know what you are rambling about. The dodging in UT2004 is the same as UT2003 except the jump heights are lower. The dodging in U2XMP was BASED ON THE DODGING IN UT2k3.

Still, what you are telling me is that if you can't dodge immediately when you hit the ground in UTXMP it is no longer XMP because that little facet of the movement made up the entire game and it better be changed back or UTXMP will be UT2004 and not XMP.

Keasis--
What a well thought out post... Hearing you talk I sometimes wonder if you ever play video games.

 

[Silver Sequence]

I agree that the style of dodge, hop, dodge, hop was one of the optimal ways to move in u2xmp. On the other hand it is not true that is it impossible to move well in utxmp. At first I was disapointed with the movment because I couldn't string together an unlimited number of jumps, but now that I'm used to it I find that it's just as easy to dodge enemies. The thing is learning how to optimize utxmp movment. The thing that I would like to see changed, instead of the waiting til you hit the ground before you can jump/dodge is the delay between hitting the ground and being able to dodge again. I think this delay is the time between when you feel that you've fully landed and the animation lands. This delay seems to be caused by the "floating" at the end of the dodge and boost dodge animation. I don't think the problem is in the new movment, I think it's in a subtle difference between utxmp and u2xmp dodging. Utxmp dodging doesn't seem to be even speed, you dodge quickly, but the landing part seems a bit slow as though you lose momentum. On the other hand the dodge in u2xmp was all the same speed. You can see this difference if you are trying to sniper dodging enemies in utxmp because they don't move at at constant speed.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

I agree that the style of dodge, hop, dodge, hop was one of the optimal ways to move in u2xmp. On the other hand it is not true that is it impossible to move well in utxmp. At first I was disapointed with the movment because I couldn't string together an unlimited number of jumps, but now that I'm used to it I find that it's just as easy to dodge enemies. The thing is learning how to optimize utxmp movment. The thing that I would like to see changed, instead of the waiting til you hit the ground before you can jump/dodge is the delay between hitting the ground and being able to dodge again. I think this delay is the time between when you feel that you've fully landed and the animation lands. This delay seems to be caused by the "floating" at the end of the dodge and boost dodge animation. I don't think the problem is in the new movment, I think it's in a subtle difference between utxmp and u2xmp dodging. Utxmp dodging doesn't seem to be even speed, you dodge quickly, but the landing part seems a bit slow as though you lose momentum. On the other hand the dodge in u2xmp was all the same speed. You can see this difference if you are trying to sniper dodging enemies in utxmp because they don't move at at constant speed.

I don't think it's a big deal, but I agree that I would like that much of the U2 movement back. I do think it's ridiculous to think that not changing it would break the game, even if it would be nice, though.

 

[iddQd]

Whats your defenition of a boost jump? Mine is double jump, wall jump, double jump... letting you do a long ranged and high uber jump. It exsisted in UT2003 but not UT2004 since it was considered a bugg or exploit. But FMI has implanted it to UTXMP carelessly if UT2004 has it or not. Why cant this be the same? I mean, it's almost the same thing, an "exploit" exsisting in u2xmp but not in UT2004.

I don't even know what you are rambling about. The dodging in UT2004 is the same as UT2003 except the jump heights are lower. The dodging in U2XMP was BASED ON THE DODGING IN UT2k3.

Still, what you are telling me is that if you can't dodge immediately when you hit the ground in UTXMP it is no longer XMP because that little facet of the movement made up the entire game and it better be changed back or UTXMP will be UT2004 and not XMP.

It seemes to me that you don't even know what im talking about, install u2xmp try my description in the first post and compare to ut2004.

Yes its still UTXMP in a more UT2004ish way, why bothering making UTXMP at all if we cant correct it after the original. Why are you against this at all, you like the drama? Im quite sure you never used it, if you would maybe you would find it usefull and unique compared to ut2004... please tell me why don't you think its important, right now I've only gotten the impression that you think its a bugg throughoutly and shouldn't be considered being brought back at all.


Brizz ask any old u2xmp player about colors, they would probably think its a good feature. Ask anyone who's more into clangaming, they would say that its usefull to localise certain clanmmates for example to fast find and suport an artifact carrier.

Brizz how about the hud, the old one sucks right and the new one is elite? Imo the new one is just all info compressed into a bigg pile of numbers... man I cant keep check on anything, and Ive asked alot of other players too and they say the same thing.

I think I can find more examples if I look hard enough.

It is as swiftpaladin sais, youve started a know it all foundation and you're holding too hard on it.


Still this is an forum and you have the right to think what ever you want and in the end it's all up to FMI, I hope they make the right decission(s).

 

[iddQd]

I don't think it's a big deal, but I agree that I would like that much of the U2 movement back. I do think it's ridiculous to think that not changing it would break the game, even if it would be nice, though.

I dont think it'll be breaking the game, I just got stuck on you said its not important its a bugg and bla bla bla... yadda hoo etc. It should defenitely be brought back. You even said players left u2xmp cause of "exploits" like this one.

 

[SwiftPaladin]

I've officially added Brizz with the ranks of phalanx.

gg's.

 

[iddQd]

Then it's kind of funny how you speak against it and then in the end you change your point totally.

gg's.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Whats your defenition of a boost jump? Mine is double jump, wall jump, double jump... letting you do a long ranged and high uber jump. It exsisted in UT2003 but not UT2004 since it was considered a bugg or exploit. But FMI has implanted it to UTXMP carelessly if UT2004 has it or not. Why cant this be the same? I mean, it's almost the same thing, an "exploit" exsisting in u2xmp but not in UT2004.

I wasn't sure what your definition is. None of the UT games have allowed you to do a DOUBLE jump->wall dodge->DOUBLE jump. They have allowed you to do SINGLe jump->wall dodge->single jump. This works in 2k3, 2k4, and U2 both, so I don't see what point you are trying to make. The only thing Epic did in 2k4 is tone down the HEIGHT of that jump. They considered it an unexpected feature, as CliffyB OFTEN SAID. I personally don't care if it's in XMP or not. As it stands, there is STILL a bug with it. And yes, I mean a BUG not an exploit.

It seemes to me that you don't even know what im talking about, install u2xmp try my description in the first post and compare to ut2004.

Um. Sorry, but I DO know what you're talking about. I know it's different in UTXMP than U2XMP. What you aren't understanding is that it is my opinion that it makes no difference. If U2XMP had never been written that way, you wouldn't be complaining now because you would be used to it that way. Thus that part of the movement DOES NOT MAKE XMP XMP.

Yes its still UTXMP in a more UT2004ish way, why bothering making UTXMP at all if we cant correct it after the original. Why are you against this at all, you like the drama? Im quite sure you never used it, if you would maybe you would find it usefull and unique compared to ut2004... please tell me why don't you think its important, right now I've only gotten the impression that you think its a bugg throughoutly and shouldn't be considered being brought back at all.

I don't care if it's brought back. What I care is that so many in the community are so vehement that UTXMP be IDENTICAL to U2XMP that they never consider whether a certain difference could be BENEFICIAL FOR THE GAMEPLAY. I never saaw a noob in U2XMP say "wow that guy is moving fast, he must be good" but I did see them say "wow that guy is moving fast he must be a cheater". It was independant of class and it gives new players the idea that it's pretty easy to cheat in the game if you can move that fast.

All I'm asking and all I've ever really asked is that people STOP WHINING and GIVE IT A CHANCE. But too many are "waah waah I can't move 10,000 mph like I could in U2XMP, so this game is busted! Fix now FMI or doom to UTXMP!!! waah waah"

Brizz ask any old u2xmp player about colors, they would probably think its a good feature. Ask anyone who's more into clangaming, they would say that its usefull to localise certain clanmmates for example to fast find and suport an artifact carrier.

Alot of people said the same thing about colors in UT2004. They are unnecessary. I am in a clan, I play in clan games all the time. My clanmates even use the UTcomp colors to complement their name. But I refuse to, and they don't give a crap. Some of my clan mates even stopped using the colors when they realized how stupid it is. There is no need. Can't you tell the difference between {Pee} and {PEE}? Because I sure as freak can. My clan is different because of it's TAG not the stupid colors they use. I recognize who to help by who they are not because their name is gren and pink and mine is blue and red. The colored names argument is REALLY tired. The fact is that it is not necessary by any stretch of the word, and all arguments for it are the same ones that have been used since UT2004 came out.

Brizz how about the hud, the old one sucks right and the new one is elite? Imo the new one is just all info compressed into a bigg pile of numbers... man I cant keep check on anything, and Ive asked alot of other players too and they say the same thing.

Nope, never said that. I gave good reasons why the new HUD is superior to the old HUD, but I never said the old HUD absolutely sucks. It had lots of problems that I feel have been fixed pretty good. The new HUD with proper scaling and transparency will be just fine.

I think I can find more examples if I look hard enough.

I'm sure you can since you seem to feel fine twisting everything I say to make it fit what you are accusing me of. I could do the same to you but I don't have countless hours to waste searching the forums for something so useless.

It is as swiftpaladin sais, youve started a know it all foundation and you're holding too hard on it.

Most people consider anything said on a public forum material that is the posters OWN OPINON. I'm sure I could find several instance where you have said something on these forums and meant it as opinon where it sounded like you would think it was 100% fact. Therefore, judge anything I say pretty much as MY OPINON and not necessarily fact...thanks...

Still this is an forum and you have the right to think what ever you want and in the end it's all up to FMI, I hope they make the right decission(s).

I think they already have.

 

[cyb]

I don't care if it's brought back. What I care is that so many in the community are so vehement that UTXMP be IDENTICAL to U2XMP that they never consider whether a certain difference could be BENEFICIAL FOR THE GAMEPLAY. I never saaw a noob in U2XMP say "wow that guy is moving fast, he must be good" but I did see them say "wow that guy is moving fast he must be a cheater". It was independant of class and it gives new players the idea that it's pretty easy to cheat in the game if you can move that fast.

I, for one, would like to see UTXMP be identically to U2XMP. Because after one year of playing it, I got used to it and like every part of it.

As for the cheating part, even I got called a cheater/speed hack user. Why? All i was doing was using my run-key and my jetpack properly. So instead to blame the experienced players, because they know how to use all available options of fair play in the game, look at the beginners too, who call everyone a cheater, when they could do they same things by just playing the game a bit more and learing it.

 

[iddQd]

I wasn't sure what your definition is. None of the UT games have allowed you to do a DOUBLE jump->wall dodge->DOUBLE jump. They have allowed you to do SINGLe jump->wall dodge->single jump. This works in 2k3, 2k4, and U2 both, so I don't see what point you are trying to make. The only thing Epic did in 2k4 is tone down the HEIGHT of that jump. They considered it an unexpected feature, as CliffyB OFTEN SAID. I personally don't care if it's in XMP or not. As it stands, there is STILL a bug with it. And yes, I mean a BUG not an exploit.

Well in ut2003 you didnt perform the boostjump exacly the same but it works the same way, in ut2003 you find a wall and you do this: left, jump, left, jump (if the wall is to the right) really fast and you'll perform a extra big jump, this was removed in ut2004 but somehow followed to the u2 engine.

I didn't start this as a whine it was better before waah waah, Im cool with improvements as long as theyre good. I just pointed out that they did miss something that made it feel kinda stiff to dodge, if they fix it or not is their problem.

Alot of people said the same thing about colors in UT2004. They are unnecessary. I am in a clan, I play in clan games all the time. My clanmates even use the UTcomp colors to complement their name. But I refuse to, and they don't give a crap. Some of my clan mates
ven stopped using the colors when they realized how stupid it is. There is no need. Can't you tell the difference between {Pee} and {PEE}? Because I sure as freak can. My clan is different because of it's TAG not the stupid colors they use. I recognize who to help by who they are not because their name is gren and pink and mine is blue and red. The colored names argument is REALLY tired. The fact is that it is not necessary by any stretch of the word, and all arguments for it are the same ones that have been used since UT2004 came out.

Now you're talking UT2004 again, why not compare this with u2xmp?

Yes I could prolly "make up" more of those, and It won't matter what I write since you got your own opinion and your own little world of how this game should look or not.

It was a fun fight, lets just drop it cause we're not getting anywhere.

 

[.pot.OptimusPrime]

I think most U2 rabbit rangers would åppreciate Matrix-like movement with infinite levitation, wall jumping, somersets and running in the ceiling. Let us not be bound to boring rules of realism and physics sh*t, let´s be free to do whatever we desire COZ THIS IS UNREAL, mates. *Jagarna Borna gig*

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Well in ut2003 you didnt perform the boostjump exacly the same but it works the same way, in ut2003 you find a wall and you do this: left, jump, left, jump (if the wall is to the right) really fast and you'll perform a extra big jump, this was removed in ut2004 but somehow followed to the u2 engine.

I know that. You're missing the point. The only reason this IS in UTXMP is BECAUSE IT IS IN UT2004. And even at that, there is STILL a bug with it. Additionally, Unreal 2 XMP used the UT2003 Engine, which explains why the boost dodging was in it on such a grand scale in the first place.

I didn't start this as a whine it was better before waah waah, Im cool with improvements as long as theyre good. I just pointed out that they did miss something that made it feel kinda stiff to dodge, if they fix it or not is their problem.

I can understand that, and I'm not going to guess, but many people who have been complaining thus far are the same people that were complaining in the threads before the release. Nobody will give any of it a chance, because they are so stuck on it being U2XMP not UTXMP.

Now you're talking UT2004 again, why not compare this with u2xmp?

Because UTXMP is on the UT2004 engine now, for one. For another, because name coloring is the same whether I compare it between UT2004 and U2XMP or U2XMP and Quake3 or UT and Nerf Arena Blast. It doesn't matter what I compare it to, it's equally annoying in all of those instances. Also, everyone that is whining about colored names not being in UTXMP are using almost identical arguments to the people that were whining that colored names were being removed from UT2004. So there IS a direct correlation, whether you see it or not.

 

[Jurai]

OMG, seriously, how can he say it doesn't matter and it isn't a big deal??? Surely being able to dodge and move quick compared to a being as slow as hell and easy to hit DOES matter, since it completely changes the game........least iddqd knows what he's talking about...

 

[[Shadow]Aksen]

Brizz, i think you are misunderstanding something. People want the game to be playable and fun, so they are offering suggestions. Dodging does not feel natural, so we are saying so. You seem to be suggesting that instead, we just don't say a word.

FMI is trying to create a game. Right now we are beta testing it. Along with finding bugs, we are giving them our feedback on gameplay. Having an enjoyable, natural movement system is important.. and if people feel something needs to be tweaked, or that a compromise should be met, they should damn well say so. For you to stand up in so many threads and yell at well meaning players, it just really pisses me off. There are always bad guys on both sides of the fence... but for you to sling mud at every single one of us, well it just gives me a headache. Quit calling everyone a "whiner" and act like a ****ing adult.

 

[[Shadow]Aksen]

and optimus, quit thinking we're just trying to alter the game so we can pwn people. In U2XMP I got ownt plenty of times and enjoyed it... xmp had a unique brand of fun that I have never ever found in any other game. I have spent the last year on the game, and enjoyed every moment of it. I, and others like me, are just trying to get the good times to continue in UTXMP. UTXMP shows plenty of promise,a nd I am enjoying it immensely. Coming here and speaking my mind on the game helps FMI aquire an understanding of what different people in the community want. You coming and berating everything that moves helps nothing.

 

[|pure|Destruction]

foshizzle bizzle

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Brizz, i think you are misunderstanding something. People want the game to be playable and fun, so they are offering suggestions. Dodging does not feel natural, so we are saying so. You seem to be suggesting that instead, we just don't say a word.

Yes these are really constructive suggestions

"UTXMP has the most ****** movement ever! FMI change it back! **** you Brizz you are stupid you don't know what you're talking about you must have never played XMP!"

You know that has been going on. I want the game to be playable and fun too, and I'm not suggesting people not say anything about it. But when 10 threads are started all COMPLAINING about the movement, there is something wrong with that. And when people IN THIS THREAD are now saying elsewhere that they are getting used to the movement, what does that say? It says I was right all along, that if you give the movement a chance it won't feel so bad. I agreed several times that there was a bug with landing and dodging again, but nobody cares when I agree they only care when I disagree.

FMI is trying to create a game. Right now we are beta testing it. Along with finding bugs, we are giving them our feedback on gameplay. Having an enjoyable, natural movement system is important.. and if people feel something needs to be tweaked, or that a compromise should be met, they should damn well say so. For you to stand up in so many threads and yell at well meaning players, it just really pisses me off. There are always bad guys on both sides of the fence... but for you to sling mud at every single one of us, well it just gives me a headache. Quit calling everyone a "whiner" and act like a ****ing adult.

pot/kettle/black.

 

[.pot.OptimusPrime]

I agree with the point that ranger is somewhat stiff when compared with the U2´s ridiculously slick one. Although the difference is pretty minimal and appears only in hardcore dodging.
There was this atm closed thread of ranger being underpowered which revealed a really frightening misunderstanding of game´s concept. Some people (of whom Jurai was the worst) claimed between the lines that owning others with ranger is the absolute nirvana and culmination point of skill developing. Other classes couldn´t be as leet and people with other than ranger shouldn´t be respected for this. I play mostly with gunner but still I find owning with ranger rather easy. The amount of extra fingerwork isn´t so signifiicant when compared with gunner. Actually I think surviving with fat ass bomber is much harder in terms of dodging and dexterity. It was so easy to avoid being killed when I could just hang half of the time in the air.

(I haven´t played UT version so much but these remarks touch the both version equally.)

 

[Emmet Otter]

My main concern are the characters jump height. Their heights are rather low. Its really hard to just out of the underground area in sunsetbeach.

 

[toky]

Ranger floats like a fairy when you dodge, almost on the verge of hovering. Not sure if anyone discussed the ranger dodge animation yet.

8)