Make it more about KILLING and less about DEFENDING

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edhe

..dadhe..
Jun 12, 2000
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I think most people would be against having 'maps for skills'.

Any good map has simple aspects up to complex aspects (rankin) and will constantly be reworked by players and plans as knoweldge and skill changes. All maps should be good for people that don't know the tricks, but have the depth there for people that can show them how to do the tricks.

IMO Campgrounds is a 'novice' map due to it's simplicity... face it, it's not hard to run about, it's not hard to know where people are going and it's fairly open and predictable. Rankin's a more advanced map, many ways of getting about, but it was still released as a demo map for the 'novices' to get about.

It's not a viable option to think about that idea of novice maps and competitive maps. Just Good maps.

Oh and hitscan = aggressive ? Shyeah...right.
 

Bullet10k

New Member
Apr 9, 2005
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briachiae said:
The score gap in ut2k4 doesn't represent the actual skill gap that well.
Yea it doesn't, and I really think it should.

briachiae said:
The game's control shifts in sprees. It's not a game of Player1 frags Player2 then Player2 frags Player1. I think it's better the way it is now.
Well that's your opinion.

I think the game's control shouldn't shift in sprees. I'd like to see the battle closer, "up-close-and-personal", and a lot more tense. Tell me, how often do you see an overtime match in 2k4? RARELY, sometimes it's basically just 30-0 win, when the loser isn't really even THAT bad as the score makes it seem. I think most people would love to see closer and tenser matches with a good chance of overtimes.

Also, I think 3 50a's in a 1v1 map MIGHT work, and also adds a BIT of control because both players would get their own 50a's and then they would fight for the third one to max their armor to 100. But also wouldn't go too far as to making the game's control shift in sprees. 100 max armor and 150 max health is a good idea btw.
 
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1337

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Jun 23, 2004
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Oh and hitscan = aggressive ? Shyeah...right.
It is the only efficient direct way to be aggressive. You have to use projectiles in an indirect way to use them effectively, atleast in 1v1 against decent players.
I think the game's control shouldn't shift in sprees. I'd like to see the battle closer, "up-close-and-personal", and a lot more tense. Tell me, how often do you see an overtime match in 2k4? RARELY, sometimes it's basically just 30-0 win, when the loser isn't really even THAT bad as the score makes it seem. I think most people would love to see closer and tenser matches with a good chance of overtimes.
If there weren't sprees then that would mean there is no sense of map control. Having battle "upclose-and personal" has nothing to do with map control. It has to do with pickup placement and having specific areas of focus at specific times in a 1v1 game. Players aren't going be encouraged to play "upclose-and-personal" when semi-important items are spread out over a map.

I see an overtime match in ut2k4 when both players are similarly skilled, simliarly handicapped by server settings and actually know how to play. I see overtime a lot, actually. Maybe you just might not see it alot when you play 1v1 for the first time against a clanner that plays frequently with his clanmates. The 0-30 loser either doesn't know how to play 1v1, is handicapped by a crap computer or server settings, or just is just extremely outskilled by his opponent. People are good and people aren't good; it's that simple. The score gap isn't a big price to pay considering how much sprees and mapcontrol affect the game in a positive way. You see some big comebacks in 1v1 matches that go to overtime. Just because you're down by 10 frags you can still comeback if you have enough time in a 1v1, and it can easily be done in TDM within a minute if the team that's down has a good amp run.

If you don't like control, then play a novice map with 50s spread out everywhere so there is not a single area of focus at any given time. You probably wont get upclose combat unless you accidently bump into eachother. :lol: Novice maps were shipped with the ut2k4. If you want to play novice, conservative 1v1 then host a server with novice maps. Or if you don't want pickups and just want to shoot eachother without an official area of focus, then play 1v1 LMS or TAM. There are alternatives out there.

Also, I think 3 50a's in a 1v1 map MIGHT work, and also adds a BIT of control because both players would get their own 50a's and then they would fight for the third one to max their armor to 100. But also wouldn't go too far as to making the game's control shift in sprees. 100 max armor and 150 max health is a good idea btw.
3 50 shields? that's too hypothetical. Maybe after the first spawn, it will work as you said, but after that the shield times get mixed up. 3 50 stackable shields wouldn't promote flow or create an area of focus once the game progresses. Because once people get 100 total shield the only thing they will want to do is play conservatively, because there is nothing they can do to stop the other person from getting 100 shield and maxed out health. Conservative beats aggressive without important pickups, unless there is a gap in skill.

With 3 50 shields you have 100 more shield per 55 second than the current 1v1 and 3 more spawnings of a shield per 55 seconds or 100 shield countdown whatever it's equivalent will be in ut2007. With that much shield available, I don't think any competitive players would continue to fight after being shot first, but instead they'd just run to the closest 50 to get stacked again. And seeing how there are 6 shields spawning per 100 coutdown equivalent, that would make the game just more conservative, and definitely nothing upclose or personal.

That idea MIGHT work in a round-based arena. Two players spawn on opposite sides of a symmetrical map and have to choose whatever weapons they want and pickup a 50 before proceeding to the central 50 in a rush to get it. Even that only works in theory, because the central 50 really doesn't have that much of an importance if you get hit by suppressive spam when going for it.

I think they should just continue making novice 1v1 maps and the real 1v1 community can pickup maps that actually suit 1v1 gameplay. And people that want to play without mapcontrol can use novice settings, like weaponstay=True and people not being able to pickup a health item once they are maxed out on health(whatever that setting is called). Even some type of indicators that tell you exactly how much longer till important health items will spawn and when they have, would be good so newcomers to pickup-based games or gametypes will get a better understanding of how to play.
 

JaFO

bugs are features too ...
Nov 5, 2000
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briachiae said:
Defensive gameplay is for CS or MOH. I recommend you go find a game or stick with the gametype that better suits you, like LMS TAM or a gametype with defense.
shows what you know about those games :rolleyes:

Novices should be able to play at a novice level. They shouldn't be forced to play with real tactics, they should be able to run around the level and just have their fun without having a real understand of the gameplay.
but they should be able to use 'real' tactics and get an understanding of the game as it should be.

Advanced players that want more out of a game should be able to get it.
there's nothing that prevents an 'advanced' player from learning except his own skill.

Don't cut off the end of the learning curve. Just let players that want to play at a lower level play at a lower level, but if they want to play at a higher level then they can start using higher level settings and maps. Just because novices that want to be 'pro' for ego purposes only and not for the love of indepth and skilled gameplay doesn't mean the game developers should tone down the advanced map control and gameplay aspects that professional gamers like to play at, just so some novices think they are great at a game.

Novices should be able to play novice settings and levels.
...
by separating map-types/styles you're effectively stopping novices from advancing on their own and promoting an even more 'elite' group of top-tier gamers. In the end this will result in even less players as there's no way to advance for us 'casual' players.

Novice maps were played a plenty the first months after release. About a year after release there were less servers with novice maps in rotation, because people either got bored with novice settings or they migrated to a different game.
and as a result the top-end killed itself as there was no new blood coming in ...

If some people that don't like having to do anything in 1v1 but camp and be a lamer, then that's fine, just don't force everyone else that likes aggressive and skilled gameplay to have to put up with you.
a bad 'camper' has never been a problem in UT-series.
In fact all it has ever been was a free frag.

You seem to think that 'defensive' players don't attack.

Meanwhile you're the one that's running around, stocking up on weapons, health and armour and only engaging people in a fight when he's fully loaded and got an advantage (ie : the hitscan weapons you think you need).