Make it more about KILLING and less about DEFENDING

[Pure_pwnage]

Atleast for 1v1/DM/TDM I mean. I think it would bring the skill level gaps a lot closer. One of the main reasons more people ut2k4 offline than online, is cuz of such a large gap.

How about removing the 100a and replacing it with 2-3 50a's spread across the map?

And how about making the max health 150 and max armor 100? (or post some good numbers of what you think they should be)

You still got good enough health and armor to protect you but it shouldn't NEVER take 2 lg headshots + a combo to finish you. I think 150 max health and 100 max armor would be cool.

 

[Vault]

hasnt this been discussed in.........X topics?

 

[1337]

If you want to play 1v1 or TDM at a lower level, then play novice maps or LMS.

100 helps focus the action. If there were 2-3 50's spread across the map it would let the players play more conservatively.

Maybe there should be different player difficulty settings?

Like novice, would have 150 max health and 100 max armor and you can't pickup armor or vials if you're maxed out already.

And then have the harder settings with more advanced map control aspects and professional competition-worthy settings.

If someone gets enough health and armor to be able to sustain 2 headshots and a combo from you, then you'd never get a frag on him/her in the first place, unless you don't know how to play 1v1 and aren't timing pickups, which is the most important thing in 1v1, because pickups is what you are fighting over. Without pickups, it's all about the aggressor and the "you-know-what". Projectiles and hitscan, generally, reward the "you-know-what" more than the aggressor. Without pickups the aggressor is at a disadvantage, because every aggressive move he/she makes cause's him to have a bigger disadvantage, unless he/she is rewarded for acting aggressively.

Perhaps with the novice setting there could be pickups spawn countdown times displayed somewhere on your screen? So you'd know how to time your own pickups?

The 50a and 100a work really well right now.

 

[Meroin]

Here's my idea:

Max 150 health, max 100 armour.

1-2 50 shields on 1v1 maps, and 2-3 on larger ones. Health vials are much less plentiful, as are health packs.

This way, it's not easy for one player to control both shields, because they both spawn at the same time. Then, the gameplay is inherently more even.

I don't like the very strong bonus that timing gives you in current UT, but I would like to see a form of it replecated in 2k7.

 

[->Sachiel<-]

A LtG headshot does infinite damage just in case you didin't know, 1 headshot will always kill. If you've seen otherwise than you misaimed or had bad ping or something (I checked the code for the lightning gun, the headshot damage is a variable that equals the total health+shields of the target).

 

[1337]

The thing all the people that complain about map control always miss is that you have to fight for the pickups to gain map control! Without any specific pickups to focus on you're going to have people playing conservatively and the only real contact will be when a player is acting aggressively and not being rewarded by anything, except maybe a frag if they outskill the other opponent.

The 100 in ut2k4 is very powerful and usually is in a very unsafe and desolate area of the map, where most of the 1v1 action will be happening. When players go for the 100 they are putting themselves in a very vulnerable position and all the hitpoints they have on them can be stolen away right underneath them if they don't take the absolute highest amount of care.

In ut2k4 you have to have the 100 to get 150. But 2 50s stacking to get 100 armor like what you both have suggested would make both 50 pickups not important or worthy of getting in an unsafe conflict for.

It's not a bonus for timing in 1v1!! It's necessary to time in 1v1 if you didn't time in 1v1 then there would be no reason to play aggressively if you are similarly skilled! The conservative player always outshoots the aggressive player in ut2k4. The only time an aggressive player can beat the conservative player is if he can fight for a reward other than a frag, because the conservative player will always get the frag, if the aggressive player isn't rewarded for his aggression.

This is why I posted

Perhaps, with the novice setting there could be pickups spawn countdown times displayed somewhere on your screen? So you'd know how to time your own pickups?

How about the novice players stick to novice maps and settings?

 

[gregori]

1v1 maps should be scaled so that they are designed to be 1v1 maps
the 1v1 maps in ut2k4 were huge!

 

[1337]

The competitive 1v1 maps in ut2k4 were scaled to fit a competitive player's movement and to prevent real spawnrape from happening.

There are novice 1v1 retail maps scaled for novice movement and map control.

Unfortunately, the dm map in the demo was not a novice map, but I assume it wasn't novice, because it was trying to lure experienced ut2k3 players to play it.

I hope in u2k7, they make the demo maps novice

 

[edhe]

Perhaps with the novice setting there could be pickups spawn countdown times displayed somewhere on your screen? So you'd know how to time your own pickups?

This is actually a half decent idea. Added to the ranking/tracking thing that we'd like to see.

At least a spawning sound.

As for having 'competitive and novice' differences of maps etc, i don't agree. Everyone needs to be able to play on the same maps that get shipped with the game, unless you want it to be a year late.

Settings can be more influential that way. Like original UT's hardcore/etc/etc settings, maybe that could be an idea.

 

[Maxx]

1v1 maps should be scaled so that they are designed to be 1v1 maps
the 1v1 maps in ut2k4 were huge!

that`s right, it`s annoying to need 2 minutes to find your adversary :tdown:

 

[W0RF]

... I like defending...




(not in 1v1, just in general)

 

[JaFO]

I prefer a more defensive style of play myself as well.

That said ... the idea of 'novice' and 'pro' maps is stupid.
Sure. It sounds nice in theory, but in reality players won't like to admit that they're 'only' at novice-level.
Besides ... how is a 'novice' going to learn 'pro-level' tactics if he can't play the same map ?

Making the game more about aggressive play-styles instead of a defensive style won't bring the gaps closer together. The only thing that'll happen is that 'aggressive' players will have a better chance of winning, which will result in a wider skill-gap for the more defense oriented players.

 

[T2A`]

A LtG headshot does infinite damage just in case you didin't know, 1 headshot will always kill. If you've seen otherwise than you misaimed or had bad ping or something (I checked the code for the lightning gun, the headshot damage is a variable that equals the total health+shields of the target).

WTF. Shut up with your misinformation.

A lightning gun headshot does 140 damage. Always. If it kills the other guy, then you get the "HEADSHOT" message; otherwise it goes unannounced. You can tell, though, because their head will be on fire.

 

[W0RF]

My guess is, the code he found is an object which plugs into a formula that checks the variable (health + shields) against the ltg damage (140) and returns a headshot announcement if bCrapface=true.

 

[Neophoenix]

If someone gets enough health and armor to be able to sustain 2 headshots and a combo from you, then you'd never get a frag on him/her in the first place, unless you don't know how to play 1v1 and aren't timing pickups, which is the most important thing in 1v1, because pickups is what you are fighting over. Without pickups, it's all about the aggressor and the "you-know-what". Projectiles and hitscan, generally, reward the "you-know-what" more than the aggressor. Without pickups the aggressor is at a disadvantage, because every aggressive move he/she makes cause's him to have a bigger disadvantage, unless he/she is rewarded for acting aggressively.

The thing all the people that complain about map control always miss is that you have to fight for the pickups to gain map control! Without any specific pickups to focus on you're going to have people playing conservatively and the only real contact will be when a player is acting aggressively and not being rewarded by anything, except maybe a frag if they outskill the other opponent.

Thank you!, someone actually agrees with me. I went on the ONLY LMS server the other day and they had no helth pick ups or anything like that. And they acted like I was a morron when i tried to explain your exact point. There is no skill in dieing by someone three times, and then killing them your 4th life just because you were nicking away ath the other players health. Or have one person take 50 health before killing them, and another finishing the job. I don't care what game type you play there should ALWAYS be at the very least, a few 25 health pick ups for the agresser to heal after each battle.

 

[1337]

I prefer a more defensive style of play myself as well.

That said ... the idea of 'novice' and 'pro' maps is stupid.
Sure. It sounds nice in theory, but in reality players won't like to admit that they're 'only' at novice-level.
Besides ... how is a 'novice' going to learn 'pro-level' tactics if he can't play the same map ?

Making the game more about aggressive play-styles instead of a defensive style won't bring the gaps closer together. The only thing that'll happen is that 'aggressive' players will have a better chance of winning, which will result in a wider skill-gap for the more defense oriented players.

Defensive gameplay is for CS or MOH. I recommend you go find a game or stick with the gametype that better suits you, like LMS TAM or a gametype with defense.

Novices should be able to play at a novice level. They shouldn't be forced to play with real tactics, they should be able to run around the level and just have their fun without having a real understand of the gameplay.

Advanced players that want more out of a game should be able to get it. Don't cut off the end of the learning curve. Just let players that want to play at a lower level play at a lower level, but if they want to play at a higher level then they can start using higher level settings and maps. Just because novices that want to be 'pro' for ego purposes only and not for the love of indepth and skilled gameplay doesn't mean the game developers should tone down the advanced map control and gameplay aspects that professional gamers like to play at, just so some novices think they are great at a game.

Novices should be able to play novice settings and levels.

UTaholics that love the game and the competitiveness and the emotions that an advanced and immersive gameplay gives should be able to get what they want.

Novices that want to be competitive have to play with competitive settings.

No need for a ranking system. Let the players choose what level they want to play at. Ship the game with different maplists.

ut2k4 shipped with different dm maps made for novices and some made for advanced players.

Novice maps were played a plenty the first months after release. About a year after release there were less servers with novice maps in rotation, because people either got bored with novice settings or they migrated to a different game.

If some people that don't like having to do anything in 1v1 but camp and be a lamer, then that's fine, just don't force everyone else that likes aggressive and skilled gameplay to have to put up with you.

 

[T2A`]

The whole "killing" feel would be increased if you were actually rewarded by playing aggressively, which you're not. You're much, much better off hanging back and playing conservatively. For example, charging with rockets will get you nowhere. Say you're locked into a fight with another guy and you both have rockets. The other guy is backing away while you are charging him, both firing whenever you feel the need. His rockets are - effectively - coming at you faster, while yours are coming at him slower. Thus, he gets the advantage being conservative while you're handicapped for being aggressive.

 

[Nosnos]

This has probably been sorted with the removal of the shieldgun and tighter maps... it should make aggresive play much more rewarding

 

[W0RF]

His rockets are - effectively - coming at you faster, while yours are coming at him slower. Thus, he gets the advantage being conservative while you're handicapped for being aggressive.

Half the weapons in the game are hitscan, effectively eliminating the "doppler effect" of your example. Why handcuff yourself to a disadvantageous position?

I get the idea of reducing death-by-camping but at the same time I would want them to be careful of rewarding aggression (skill?) to the point where players of higher skill are more amply advantaged over their lesser opponents. That's the main reason adrenaline has been nixed from so many servers, because that method of rewarding aggression resulted in a larger skill gap.

 

[1337]

Hitscan is the only direct way you can be aggressive. That's why I like it.

Projectiles can be used aggressively, but you have to be very creative, skilled and/or sneaky to do it. Without pickups or chokepoints, projectiles would only be useable for suppressive spam or against an other player acting aggressive or careless. Rolloff and etc. makes it almost impossible to sneak up on a opponent with a good rig online.

I get the idea of reducing death-by-camping but at the same time I would want them to be careful of rewarding aggression (skill?) to the point where players of higher skill are more amply advantaged over their lesser opponents. That's the main reason adrenaline has been nixed from so many servers, because that method of rewarding aggression resulted in a larger skill gap.

Yes it does make the score gap larger. But it promotes players to play in an aggressive fashion. A higher skilled opponent will win a lower skilled opponent no matter how big the score gap is. Similarly skilled opponents can benefit from the more advanced and aggressive gameplay resulting from pickups, however.

The score gap in ut2k4 doesn't represent the actual skill gap that well.

The game's control shifts in sprees. It's not a game of Player1 frags Player2 then Player2 frags Player1. I think it's better the way it is now.

If you want to play without the map control aspects found at a competitive level in 1v1, then play with different settings or maps.