M249 reload

[W.R]

I was playing with the m249 today and I noticed the reload was quite different from the way I do it in real life…

m249 reload in inf:
-open feed cover
-remove box
-add new box
-place belt on feed tray
-close feed cover

in real life:
-cock weapon
-place weapon on safe
-open feed cover
-with your hand sweep feed tray left (making the belt fall out)
-with your hand sweep feed tray right (making any links that are in there fall out)
-close feed cover *
-fire off the action *
-open feed cover *
-remove box
-add new box
-place belt on feed tray
-close feed cover

* can be skipped for speed but takes away from the safety

EDIT: Typo

 

[Turin_Turambar]

Interesting... any other expert here?

 

[ThunderChunky]

If you were to send me your M249 for... uh... animation references... I'll get right on it.

 

[RedMarlin[MERLIN]]

If we did that it would take 10 minutes just to reload

And I doubt they will take the time to change the animation.

 

[Kyle Kellahshehskee]

"Simulated" reloading in a game during a firefight is terrifying enough. These extra steps would send most people into a sheer panic during an active sortie.

I love it.

 

[W.R]

its not mine its the army’s, they just let me play with it
and it wouldn’t take 10 min to reload, I reload in under a min... they drill it into you
and why wouldn't they take the time to change the animation and make it correct and realistic.... I thought that’s what inf was all about

 

[geogob]

its not mine its the army’s, they just let me play with it
and it wouldn’t take 10 min to reload, I reload in under a min... they drill it into you
and why wouldn't they take the time to change the animation and make it correct and realistic.... I thought that’s what inf was all about

you might want to talk to the INF Modteam then... safety and correct procedures is more our kind of daily bread...

http://forums.clanterritory.com/forumdisplay.php?f=179

Sadly we don't have the ressource to work on the m249 since we don't have the raw sources from SS. But your input would be welcome for future and current projects. Maybe we'll get to do a C6 some time soon

 

[chuckus]

in real life:
{-cock weapon
-place weapon on safe
-open feed cover
-with your hand sweep feed tray left (making the belt fall out)
-with your hand sweep feed tray right (making any links that are in there fall out)
-close feed cover *
-fire off the action *}
/All part of the "unload" drill

[-open feed cover *
-remove box
-add new box
-place belt on feed tray
-close feed cover]
/this is the actual "reload" drill

*think about the first part. You're unloading an empty weapon..... you don't NEED to do that... and in the field... you WOULDN"T do that... *


Your in the CF aren't you? heheh

That is written in the CF doctrine in order to prevent people from shooting buddy on accident. They make you cock the weapon (even though the weapon is empty) in order to standardize everything and uncomplicate weapon drills so you don't forget it during IAs (jams) or other drills where it could potentially be fatal to forget to do the "Unload" drill first. (at least that's my understanding I'm no m249 expert). In the game, INF guy is doing the simplest, quickest way to reload and in doing so risking a jam (because links don't always perfectly fall out like they do in INF ). Really if you know what your doing, and have experience with the m249, you'd recognize a link that wasn't supposed to be there and sweep it off but they teach you to do it all the time because you don't know the weapon and are inexperienced and may jam it and **** your whole section. It takes longer to finish your IA drills than it does to sweep it. Better safe than sorry I suppose.

Now also, if you are in the CF, you probably did your drills from the prone, (or kneeling if your instructors wanted to simulate some kind of field reloading). INF guy's animation is as if he we're reloading from the standing. (which I dont agree with since in the prone it can be just as fast as reloading an m16). Next time they issue you an m249 or your buddy has it on an ex, try reloading from the standing. It ain't easy brotha.

Finally, if you want to know the best way to reload your weapon. Talk to the guys in your regiment who did Gunners courses or who are all around keeners. The'yll give you tips on how to load, unload and handle the weapon (and when to do it so you don't get a blast of sh*t). that's my best advice to you.

 

[geogob]

O/T

W.R. how different is the C9 from the C6 reloading wise? is it about the same or is it faster on the C9?

 

[Lt.]

i dunno about load times, but doesnt the C9A1 have a scope?

a GPMG with a scope would be excellent for supporting fire.
(plus weapons as of late havent had many attachments... )

I would totally dig a scope attachment.

 

[Tiffy]

in real life:
-cock weapon
-place weapon on safe
-open feed cover
-with your hand sweep feed tray left (making the belt fall out)
-with your hand sweep feed tray right (making any links that are in there fall out)
-close feed cover *
-fire off the action *
-open feed cover *
-remove box
-add new box
-place belt on feed tray
-close feed cover

There's nothing wrong with this drill. IRL I doubt you'd bother to fire off the action or put the safety on during the drill but the rest is correct. For those who have commented about cocking the weapon to start with and clearing the feed tray with your hand these are done and are necessary to get the weapon back into action in the shortest possible time. You'd NEVER assume your weapons just 'empty' even in action. IA drills are drilled into soldiers (hense the name) and are second nature. Your firing and your weapon stops (and your've lost count of shots) so the first part of any IA drill is to check the weapon. M16, SLR, L85, AKM its "Cock, Hook, Look" - Open the breach and examine the weapons state. Still got rounds in the mag and there is noting in the breach then let the working parts go forward and contine. No rounds put a fresh mag on and continue. Round caught in the chambe, obstructing the body of the weapon, clear away and continue. Round still in the chamber - your in **** - Mag off and try to get the chamber cleared.......etc (The M16 and L85 have a modification to this in that you look at the breach before opening it. If it appears closed then you forward assist the breach and try again. This is due to the rotating bolt not fully turning and the weapon thus not being locked).

The Minimi (M249) is the same. Its stopped firing so your first IA drill is to cock the weapon and open the cover. Still got rounds, close the cover and continue. Not got rounds the clear the feedtray, put a fresh belt in, close the cover and continue.

<snip> ....you probably did your drills from the prone, (or kneeling if your instructors wanted to simulate some kind of field reloading). INF guy's animation is as if he we're reloading from the standing. (which I dont agree with since in the prone it can be just as fast as reloading an m16). Next time they issue you an m249 or your buddy has it on an ex, try reloading from the standing. It ain't easy brotha.

<snip>

This is a very valid point. Loading the M249 while standing, even moving sometimes is too bloody fast and easy. You've got a clumsy box to get off anf then put on to the gun, a belt that has to be correctly laid onto the feedtray, a cover thats flapping up and down. It's not the same a banging a magazine into your M16 (something thats quite hard to do while running as it is). Your stance and movement really should effect things like reload speed.

There is a reason soldiers tend to stop behind cover while reloading. If it could be done at the run efficently then it would be........just doesn't happen

 

[geogob]

i dunno about load times, but doesnt the C9A1 have a scope?

a GPMG with a scope would be excellent for supporting fire.
(plus weapons as of late havent had many attachments... )

I would totally dig a scope attachment.

it's an ELCAN... similar to ACOG. And both with and without are available, like with the C7 IIRC

 

[Cleeus[JgKdo]]

just out of interesst: how much does such a 200 round box weight?

 

[Derelan]

The problem is, in a game, you have no control over a reloading situation. In your real life reloading of an m249, the difference between two people reloading that gun can be several seconds. In inf, all you do is press/click "reload", and watch the pretty animations.

And there's no way around that, either. The only cool thing i can think of that fixes this problem is mouse gesture sensing. For example, on the RC50, you hold down your reload button, and move the mouse in an L, then go backwards on the same path with your mouse. The speed could be partially dictated, but mostly affected by the speed at which the action is performed.

And of course, just like you can slip your hand off a bolt in real life when you're too nervous, you would need extra precision at higher speeds of mouse movement.

 

[Meplat]

Some 249/Minimi cans come with the belt pretabbed, where all that is required is the pshing of the tab through the feedtray, without opening the cover. (This is useless if one has anything IN the tray, thus the loaded flag..)

IF I get my car back soon (In the shop, getting a new engine) I'll try and get pics of a friend's FN Minimi (in 249 dress) as well as more PKM pics for another boardmember's project. If anyone doing development lives in Arizona, I can TRY and arrange a demo shoot..(Shooting the 249/Minimi IRL is VERY diffrent from the game. NO, and I mean NO climb whatsover off the shoulder.)

 

[Psychomorph]

Stupid question, but how close comes the AA:O M249 to RL? And is the M249 really a light MG? Cuz I always see soldiers carrying it similar to rifles, while M60 is huge and cant be used that way.

 

[W.R]

Yes chuckus I am in the CF and I have my support weapons (dp2a) course
I would never reload without cocking it first, you cock it first to make sure the bolt is fully locked at the rear, carbon starts to build up in the gas regulator and the bolt doesn’t always get pushed back all the way, this is also how a run way gun happens, the bolt doesn’t travel back far enough to catch in the trigger (forgot the proper name) and the mg doesn’t stop firing so you need to brake the belt... So if you were to not cock it before reloading the weapon might fire while reloading and that’s not smart or if the bolt is closed there might be a round in the chamber that could cook off.

clearing a stoppage on the LMG/GPMG is allot easier then they teach it, you don’t actually have to go thru the entire drill, just cock and that usualy gets em goin again if that doesn’t work you do the drill

as Tiffy said these things get drilled into you… so when your completely sleep fuked with no light, getting shot at and your weapon jams, you don’t waist time thinking you act… I don’t think I can open the feed cover without sweeping…. My brain would explode or something

geo: C6 drill is almost identical to the C-9/m249, its a lot bigger and heavier tho so it slows you down a bit and you need a #2 to take care of your ammo…. 7.62mm weighs a **** load

 

[chuckus]

I would never reload without cocking it first, you cock it first to make sure the bolt is fully locked at the rear, carbon starts to build up in the gas regulator and the bolt doesn’t always get pushed back all the way, this is also how a run way gun happens, the bolt doesn’t travel back far enough to catch in the trigger (forgot the proper name) and the mg doesn’t stop firing so you need to brake the belt

Forgot about the runaway gun lol WHHEEEEE

Most of the guys in my regiment do the drill perfectly on the firing range but do the abridged versions in the field. One corporal who's kind of the authority on our regimental "field doctrine" (our assbackwrds way of doing things so we're more efficient... which we are) was even trying to figure away to reload the c6 lke the americans load the m60, without having to open the feed tray. Don't think he ever figured out a way to but if he did that would have been our unofficial standard.

I think the m249 reloading animation is correct enough except for having the feed tray cover closed in the middle of reloading. if he's not doing the safety precautions, it's kind of pointless, he just ends up having to open it again which wastes time.

What regiment are you with if you don't mind me asking, reg force or reservist?

 

[W.R]

RHFC, part time
yourself?

 

[Tiffy]

<snip> ...the bolt doesn’t travel back far enough to catch in the trigger (forgot the proper name) and the mg doesn’t stop firing so you need to brake the belt... <snip>

Safety sear is the word your looking for. The bolt travels to the rear where the safety sear catches it. In an Automatic weapon, holding the trigger disengages the safety sear so the bolt just travels forward again. Take your finger off the trigger and teh safety sear catches the bolt and then engages the main sear so you can squeeze the trigger off again.

Hope that helps.....