This is an incredible Idea spawned in a GID topic about guns underwater, I just wanted to continue it in OT as it has little to do about INF,
Guns in Space
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Because you will be sent backwards with an equal force as the bullets sent forward, I would expect that independently power projectiles would replace bullets. I imagine they would be propelled with very little velocity until they were clear of the gun and then would activate some propulsion system to head toward the target.
Another possibility would be electromagnetic/gauss weapons, as they shouldn't be subject to the Newtonian backward force.
Of course, there are always lasers
Another possibility would be electromagnetic/gauss weapons, as they shouldn't be subject to the Newtonian backward force.
Of course, there are always lasers
EndlessInfinity
Where is your god now?
except that the only problem with rail guns is that they pretty much toast any electronic systems nearby.
Plus, I don't think we will resort to space combat - unlike in the movies, there are no explosions in space. In the end we would just have thousands upon thousands of pieces of space-junk blocking the planet, destroying all satelights, etc.
Plus, I don't think we will resort to space combat - unlike in the movies, there are no explosions in space. In the end we would just have thousands upon thousands of pieces of space-junk blocking the planet, destroying all satelights, etc.
Simple solution: Package each bullet with it's own individual oxygen supply, much like miniature rockets. You could also fire small thrusters, or possibly even vent the excess gasses created by your weapons, in the opposite direction as your fire to counter-act the force that the projectile places on you/you're ship.
-Keiichi
-Keiichi
NEWS FLASH: Nitrocellulose, aka smokeless powder, contains its own oxygen. I don't know how people get it in their heads that guns need ambient air to fire, since if this were the case the cartridge would not be sealed (and you'd have powder spilling everywhere). The fact that guns fire underwater should have made this fairly obvious. So to answer the question, guns will fire perfectly normal in a vacuum. The harshness of space may freeze a gun up, but oxygen is not a consideration.
Plus, the recoil of a firearm is not that severe as to send someone flying in zero-G. The rotational effect of a long burst might be bad, but as I commented in the way OT post before:
Since space is airless, we can bolt truely wicked muzzle breaks onto these guns. In atmosphere, they would be of ear-splitting effeciency.
Secondly, about the space debris: the whole idea is what we can take off the shelf, today, and use on, say, the moon or to defend the ISS. Railguns and EMP weapons aren't man-portable yet.
Realistically, though, Starship Troopers raised a big question. Why they hell are we sending soft, pink, and squishy people (no matter how hard the candy shell) into hostile, alien environments?
I'd think if we saw an assault of the ISS or a moonbase, the goal wouldn't be to capture it, but to disable it. And a rogue satellite (Ooops!) would be a little more covert than a bunch of space-suited marines with modified M4's punching holes in everything.
Since space is airless, we can bolt truely wicked muzzle breaks onto these guns. In atmosphere, they would be of ear-splitting effeciency.
Secondly, about the space debris: the whole idea is what we can take off the shelf, today, and use on, say, the moon or to defend the ISS. Railguns and EMP weapons aren't man-portable yet.
Realistically, though, Starship Troopers raised a big question. Why they hell are we sending soft, pink, and squishy people (no matter how hard the candy shell) into hostile, alien environments?
I'd think if we saw an assault of the ISS or a moonbase, the goal wouldn't be to capture it, but to disable it. And a rogue satellite (Ooops!) would be a little more covert than a bunch of space-suited marines with modified M4's punching holes in everything.
Heh, starship troopers was a look good feel good movie. You want to see a REAL sci fi you watch Aliens. God bless James Cameron for his research into exobiology and hive mind behaviour.
You ain't never going to get an M4 to work in outer space. Gas operated weapons would have the vented propellant condense and crystallise at absolute zero freezing the firing solenoid dead. Expecially the gas impinging operation of the M16.
Blowback might work.
You'd need MMU compensation to keep your position in zero G. Although I see no purpose in firing while in free float. You'd have to be tethered/anchored to something for a steady firing position.
The entire concept of firing stance and positions would have to be re-learnt.
Sides, what can a man with a rifle do to a moonbase that a half kilogram railgun round travelling at 20km a second can't?
You ain't never going to get an M4 to work in outer space. Gas operated weapons would have the vented propellant condense and crystallise at absolute zero freezing the firing solenoid dead. Expecially the gas impinging operation of the M16.
Blowback might work.
You'd need MMU compensation to keep your position in zero G. Although I see no purpose in firing while in free float. You'd have to be tethered/anchored to something for a steady firing position.
The entire concept of firing stance and positions would have to be re-learnt.
Sides, what can a man with a rifle do to a moonbase that a half kilogram railgun round travelling at 20km a second can't?
phatcat
akward cat
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in the P&P (pen & paper) RPG called "RIFTS"
they have a Power Armor* suit called the Glitter Boy** the Phase World variant of the "GB" has carries a rail gun and jetpack. the jet pack is setup for movment in space, and to componsate for the HEAVY recoil from its rail gun, AKA "BOOM-GUN"***
thats the best example of a Railgun in space
I really liked RIFTS use of rail guns
*Power Armor : armor that increases your physical attributes through composite, and alloy armor, pneumatics, and jet propulsion.
**the name Glitter Boy, or "GB" is drived from the chrome alloy armor that is reflective down to the micron. this causes it to take reduced damage from beam weapons, such as laser.
***"BOOM-GUNs" are large rail guns set for infantry use. they throw a fletchlet round at supersonic speeds. they are refeered as "BOOM-GUNs" becasue of the large sound that the fletchlet round makes as it breaks the sound barrier.
becasue of the extreme recoil of the weapon, the GB must have pylones ingaged, and the jet pack ready before the gun will fire. the recoil is so great that the GB.
damaged or dissengaged pylones cause the GB to be thrown back. A damaged or dissengaged jetpack will will twist the GB around from its waist damaging the back, and legs of the GB, either severly injuring, or killing the pilot.
they have a Power Armor* suit called the Glitter Boy** the Phase World variant of the "GB" has carries a rail gun and jetpack. the jet pack is setup for movment in space, and to componsate for the HEAVY recoil from its rail gun, AKA "BOOM-GUN"***
thats the best example of a Railgun in space
I really liked RIFTS use of rail guns
*Power Armor : armor that increases your physical attributes through composite, and alloy armor, pneumatics, and jet propulsion.
**the name Glitter Boy, or "GB" is drived from the chrome alloy armor that is reflective down to the micron. this causes it to take reduced damage from beam weapons, such as laser.
***"BOOM-GUNs" are large rail guns set for infantry use. they throw a fletchlet round at supersonic speeds. they are refeered as "BOOM-GUNs" becasue of the large sound that the fletchlet round makes as it breaks the sound barrier.
becasue of the extreme recoil of the weapon, the GB must have pylones ingaged, and the jet pack ready before the gun will fire. the recoil is so great that the GB.
damaged or dissengaged pylones cause the GB to be thrown back. A damaged or dissengaged jetpack will will twist the GB around from its waist damaging the back, and legs of the GB, either severly injuring, or killing the pilot.
phatcat
akward cat
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Phatcat: How are electromagnetic railguns going to cause recoil, does the Monorail have recoil? That's the same basic priniciple.
RIFTS is a P&P RPG not real life, and electromagnetic rail guns are recoil free because the magnets launch the bullets forward, instead of a recoil causing explosion.
Gas powered repeating guns will freeze in space, I suggest a more bulky electric motor system that would cycle the bullets and firing system, also, heavier and more powerful (.50BMG ARs) ammo could be used since recoil could be more effectively reduced.
All of this could be effectively incorporated into a incredibly bulky steel suit also incorporating Jetpacks, heating systems, and MMU maneurvering thruster systems, and the elctric battery to run all this, allong with fuel tanks...rather bulky, but if it has hydraulic/electrical motors and pistons to help the human inside move the suit the bulk is a moot point.
RIFTS is a P&P RPG not real life, and electromagnetic rail guns are recoil free because the magnets launch the bullets forward, instead of a recoil causing explosion.
Gas powered repeating guns will freeze in space, I suggest a more bulky electric motor system that would cycle the bullets and firing system, also, heavier and more powerful (.50BMG ARs) ammo could be used since recoil could be more effectively reduced.
All of this could be effectively incorporated into a incredibly bulky steel suit also incorporating Jetpacks, heating systems, and MMU maneurvering thruster systems, and the elctric battery to run all this, allong with fuel tanks...rather bulky, but if it has hydraulic/electrical motors and pistons to help the human inside move the suit the bulk is a moot point.
phatcat
akward cat
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fu*k'n duh
however I do belive that a gun that flung (even with it being driven by electromagnetic force) would DEFFINATLY kick
for every action...
there is a equal and oposite reaction
Ever thrown a rock? does that Kick?
If so what the hell is wrong with your arm?
Principle for a Electromagnetic RailGun:
Electromagnets actuate in sequence to PULL a projectile forward at high speeds.
How does Magnets pulling the bullet forward cause kick?
Oh wait, It doesn't.
Now, If you wanna talk about an RPG and use it as examples for real life then agree with me that it's not, then at least use an RPG that has a realistic example of a railgun, the biggest problem with a railgun is the fact it uses magnets, which basically screw over any unshielded electronics.
Take a magnet, any will do, and place a paper clip on a thin but sturdy piece of cardboard, take the magnet and place it under the paper clip on ther underside of the cardboard, move it all the way to the edge of the cardboard, then hold it tightly and run the magnet quickly the other way towards the opposite edge of the cardboard. If the magnet had lost it's power or turned off at the edge of the cardboard the paperclip would have rocketed across the room. You have just created a railgun, did you get thrown across the room?
If so what the hell is wrong with your arm?
Principle for a Electromagnetic RailGun:
Electromagnets actuate in sequence to PULL a projectile forward at high speeds.
How does Magnets pulling the bullet forward cause kick?
Oh wait, It doesn't.
Now, If you wanna talk about an RPG and use it as examples for real life then agree with me that it's not, then at least use an RPG that has a realistic example of a railgun, the biggest problem with a railgun is the fact it uses magnets, which basically screw over any unshielded electronics.
Take a magnet, any will do, and place a paper clip on a thin but sturdy piece of cardboard, take the magnet and place it under the paper clip on ther underside of the cardboard, move it all the way to the edge of the cardboard, then hold it tightly and run the magnet quickly the other way towards the opposite edge of the cardboard. If the magnet had lost it's power or turned off at the edge of the cardboard the paperclip would have rocketed across the room. You have just created a railgun, did you get thrown across the room?
phatcat
akward cat
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have you taken physics at all??
becasue if you had you would know your wrong
here is a example. a man is in a 0-G or near 0-g room if a man takes a ball and throws it at his freind accross the room. he will fly back with the force of his throw. no very far, but he will experince a push
on earth you would not notice this, becasue of gravity, friction, and automatic body recations to the recoil of the throw
also you cant have a situation with all pull and no push.
there has to be a force in the oposite direction. and I say that it would be massive due to the speed of the projectile.
I dissagree with your facts.
becasue if you had you would know your wrong
here is a example. a man is in a 0-G or near 0-g room if a man takes a ball and throws it at his freind accross the room. he will fly back with the force of his throw. no very far, but he will experince a push
on earth you would not notice this, becasue of gravity, friction, and automatic body recations to the recoil of the throw
also you cant have a situation with all pull and no push.
there has to be a force in the oposite direction. and I say that it would be massive due to the speed of the projectile.
I dissagree with your facts.
Yes, I have taken Physics.
1. The recoil he experiences is because he is pushing against the air, we're talking about total vaccum.
2. All pull no push is possible, because you are ACCELLERATING the bullet with no actual force besides the pull forward...I thought I made that clear when I told you to do my little experiment. How is there a force in the opposite direction? Why does my friend who teaches physics agree with me? Why did his class do an experiment just 2 weeks ago simulating a railgun by using a open ended box of electromagnets that pulsed slowly, then they put a paperclip in and shot it across the room, no recoil.
Disagree with my facts all you want, because I have hard facts, you seem to have an overabundance of opinions.
1. The recoil he experiences is because he is pushing against the air, we're talking about total vaccum.
2. All pull no push is possible, because you are ACCELLERATING the bullet with no actual force besides the pull forward...I thought I made that clear when I told you to do my little experiment. How is there a force in the opposite direction? Why does my friend who teaches physics agree with me? Why did his class do an experiment just 2 weeks ago simulating a railgun by using a open ended box of electromagnets that pulsed slowly, then they put a paperclip in and shot it across the room, no recoil.
Disagree with my facts all you want, because I have hard facts, you seem to have an overabundance of opinions.
phatcat
akward cat
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I think your wrong, and your facts are not.
and I won't agree with you untill someone else I know agrees with you
and I won't agree with you untill someone else I know agrees with you
Gabriels wrong
sorry dude, but recoil has more to do with inertia than air resistance, there's still inertia in space, so you will get an equal and opposite force when accelarating a mass with your rail gun.
may i suggest you invest in a laser
sorry dude, but recoil has more to do with inertia than air resistance, there's still inertia in space, so you will get an equal and opposite force when accelarating a mass with your rail gun.
may i suggest you invest in a laser
Umm, Magnets are moving the bullet, that bullet would have to have some SERIOUS inertia to outweigh the inertia of my bulky space suit I already described, you might notice a SLIGHT float after some prolonged firing, but barely percetible and only with limited effect.
When you wanna get into inertia you should understand that people have A WHOLE LOT MORE inertia than any bullet.
So yes, because of inertia it would cause recoil But really not enough to be considered real recoil.
And lasers then have force or else they are only heating lasers, repelled by mirrors, and with that force comes recoil.
When you wanna get into inertia you should understand that people have A WHOLE LOT MORE inertia than any bullet.
So yes, because of inertia it would cause recoil
But really not enough to be considered real recoil.And lasers then have force or else they are only heating lasers, repelled by mirrors, and with that force comes recoil.
phatcat
akward cat
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*shakes head*
I really doubt that I think it would be a massive recoil becasue the force behind that fletchlet
even without air.
I really doubt that I think it would be a massive recoil becasue the force behind that fletchlet
even without air.
Answer this: What's the difference between ejecting a small flechette from a railgun, and ejecting gasses via a rocket engine? The answer: There isn't any. The rocket engine simply ejects far more material. It's impossible for there to be an action without a reaction. The magnets are exerting a force upon the flechette (via a magnetic field), which means that the flechette must also be exerting a force upon the magnets (also via the magnetic field). The reason a monorail's track doesn't move in the opposite direction as the train is because it's fixed to the ground (and it's mass is substantially greater, though that would only slow the movement, not stop it).
If I were to be floating in space, and I were to take a wrench and throw it, I would move ever so slightly in the opposite direction, because just as I'm exerting a force upon the wrench, the wrench is also exerting a force upon me. However, you have to keep in mind that, in a zero-G environment, there's nothing to keep me from moving in a straight line forever (things in motion tend to stay in motion, and all that jazz). Now, even that ever so slight ammount of backward momentum placed on me by the wrench would become a serious problem unless actions were taken to stop my movement (ie: firing thrusters). Even lasers aren't above the laws of physics. One of NASA's proposals for a fast-as-light starship utilized a large laser beam directed from an orbiting satelite or ground station to "push" a cup-shaped craft. Granted, it would take over a decade for the craft to reach anything near it's top speed, but it proves that light, on it's own, can exert a force upon another object. Unfortunately, the project never got out of the planning stages.
-Keiichi
If I were to be floating in space, and I were to take a wrench and throw it, I would move ever so slightly in the opposite direction, because just as I'm exerting a force upon the wrench, the wrench is also exerting a force upon me. However, you have to keep in mind that, in a zero-G environment, there's nothing to keep me from moving in a straight line forever (things in motion tend to stay in motion, and all that jazz). Now, even that ever so slight ammount of backward momentum placed on me by the wrench would become a serious problem unless actions were taken to stop my movement (ie: firing thrusters). Even lasers aren't above the laws of physics. One of NASA's proposals for a fast-as-light starship utilized a large laser beam directed from an orbiting satelite or ground station to "push" a cup-shaped craft. Granted, it would take over a decade for the craft to reach anything near it's top speed, but it proves that light, on it's own, can exert a force upon another object. Unfortunately, the project never got out of the planning stages.
-Keiichi