Fitna:the movie by Wilders
- Thread starter JaFO
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Leonardo
Old fart on top the mountain.....
Actually the qu'ran says that you must just dress decently. What that exactly is, is widely open for interpetation.
I'd like to say that the crusades where not that important for the islamic world. It merely sped up the total taking over of the Turkic tribes of the islamic world. Even before that the islamic empire desintigrated.
Islamic countries used to be ahead of the west untill the around 1700.
Islamic countries used to be the most progressive but around 1600 islam started to become the conservative. Later due to increased pressure and the gradual power shift the muslims start to look back for a more "pure" old form of islam. This led to wahhabism and the rise of countries like saudi arabia.
We can also say that the current anti western incidents are the results of over a millenium of mistreatment of muslims by christian countries.
While muslims where massacred by the thousands islamic islamic conquerors invited jews from spain to go live in their country.
I'd like to say that the crusades where not that important for the islamic world. It merely sped up the total taking over of the Turkic tribes of the islamic world. Even before that the islamic empire desintigrated.
Islamic countries used to be ahead of the west untill the around 1700.
Islamic countries used to be the most progressive but around 1600 islam started to become the conservative. Later due to increased pressure and the gradual power shift the muslims start to look back for a more "pure" old form of islam. This led to wahhabism and the rise of countries like saudi arabia.
We can also say that the current anti western incidents are the results of over a millenium of mistreatment of muslims by christian countries.
While muslims where massacred by the thousands islamic islamic conquerors invited jews from spain to go live in their country.
Kaithofis
The Seldom Seen Kid
As far the victim is other everything is okay for you, isn´t it?. The words an actions of muslims is what convinced me that they are a threat. Two comments about the video. First, I linked the video to show that muslims say wathever they please about the western and we don´t blow up their mosques but if someone is critic with Islam then we must prepare for attacks. Second, where the hell do you see peaceful muslims?
Did we watch the same video? All I saw was a compilation of large groups of Muslims protesting peacefully against.. Danes and Bush and that sorta stuff.
Basically the things they said (and that's all they did: they said stuff) isn't a whole lot worse than what you're saying about them in this thread.
Also, that first sentence is not true. I said what I said to state that I really don't see why we should be scared of or hate Muslims. But I guess that's where we disagree, because you seem to completely blame today's "unsafe environment" on them. I doubt the streets would be any safer if all Muslims would be kicked out of the country.
We were talking about the crime rates: not the terroristic threats.
I was wondering as well how you were going to back your argument up (a source for that rape statistic would be nice). I'll just assume you're right about that, because it doesn't really matter anyway. Even if Muslims have the highest percentage of rapists, the exact number of Muslims rapists would be dwarfed by the number of Dutch rapists. I would then consider the last group of people to be the bigger threat.
The thing is that there are millions and millions of Muslims. If they would all be as violent and rape-willing as you stereotype them: We'd all be dead by now.
I don't care about the people you describe. I think we all agree that they don't deserve any sympathy. My problem with you is that you seem to think that every single Muslim is like that, and that they form a threat to our nation. Something that I think is completely ridiculous. Like Mozi said: there are bad apples, but that doesn't make every single Muslim a terroristic rapist. And that vast majority of good guys will suffer the most from Wilders' movie and the opinions of guys like you. But I guess you let the actions of some of them decide your opinion on the entire group over 1 billion.
Good job calling me a traitor on that last sentence though. I guess someone who would like to deport an entire group of our population to another country doesn't quite screw over our country as much as someone who would like to see everyone in the country live together in unison.
Anyhoo, the combination of a ton of homework and the feeling that I'm talking to a brick wall will lead to me easing down on the posting activity. There isn't a whole lot I can add too. I seriously hope you'd stop seeing every single Muslim as a terrorist and/or evildoer. Maybe I'm assuming incorrectly that you are doing this, but that's just the impression I get from your posts.
Oh, and I agree with JaFO: Christians are way worse. Seriously: 2 years ago I was in Toulouse during my trip through Europe. There was a Dutch woman on the stairs of the tourist information there who immediately approached us after she noticed that we were Dutch. Within 3 minutes we were loaded with flyers on the Lord. Who the eff brings flyers and brochures about faith on a holiday? Jesus Christ. (pun intended)
Oh, and don't mind the spelling: It's 5 AM. Normally I spell real gut.
For those interested in seeing this April fools' joke of a movie (if this 'movie' is offensive then so is 99% of the internet) has been released and it only costs 15 minutes of your life.
I'm sure you've got more interesting stuff to do, so here's a short summary :
= Khoran opens
= the infamous Danish Cartoon is shown and a countdown-timer starts at 15:00
= it shows (Dutch) translations of various 'offensive' lines supposedly taken from the book (I'm sure they'll be translated/subtitled)
= these lines are combined with images from the planes crashing into the WTC and the various terrorist acts
= http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ee4_1206625795
= http://www.crispybarbecue.com/
= http://weak-link.nl/kuifmans/
IMHO the effect would have been even better if nothing at all had been shown as the pre-hype and protests (some flags and images of Wilders himself were burnt) contained more interesting items than the movie itself.
I'm sure Wilders himself would like to thank all the fanatic idiots out there for making a fool of themselves.
// -- edit --
The English version is available as well :
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7d9_1206624103
All sites so far are pretty bad, so it'll take a while before can be viewed ...
I'm sure you've got more interesting stuff to do, so here's a short summary :
= Khoran opens
= the infamous Danish Cartoon is shown and a countdown-timer starts at 15:00
= it shows (Dutch) translations of various 'offensive' lines supposedly taken from the book (I'm sure they'll be translated/subtitled)
= these lines are combined with images from the planes crashing into the WTC and the various terrorist acts
= http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ee4_1206625795
= http://www.crispybarbecue.com/
= http://weak-link.nl/kuifmans/
IMHO the effect would have been even better if nothing at all had been shown as the pre-hype and protests (some flags and images of Wilders himself were burnt) contained more interesting items than the movie itself.
I'm sure Wilders himself would like to thank all the fanatic idiots out there for making a fool of themselves.
// -- edit --
The English version is available as well :
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7d9_1206624103
All sites so far are pretty bad, so it'll take a while before can be viewed ...
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I don't want to watch it and Im not going to watch it. Four months of discussion in Holland about a movie that nobody has even seen yet makes me sick. Clowns, all of em. :tdown:
Wow all that fuzz about some old footage and lots of zooming. Not really something new. But I'm sure it will put the islamification of the western world back on the political agenda, if it wasn't allready.
His movie is filled with errors, from using the wrong pics to the wrong verses to misquotation of verses.
He's gonna get sued by one of the danish cartoon makers for using one of his cartoons. And the rapper whose picture got used instead of the actual mohammed B is going to sue him too.
He ****ing failed epicly.
He's gonna get sued by one of the danish cartoon makers for using one of his cartoons. And the rapper whose picture got used instead of the actual mohammed B is going to sue him too.
He ****ing failed epicly.
Sometimes just being provocative and moreso misinformed leads to the stupidity of this movie.
The problem is though that Islam and especially the extremists doesn't tolerate that we have freedom of speech and that the Dutch governement were pussies and appologized immidiately. Freedom of speech is very free even if the movie is based on misinformation and on that it could just aswell be 100% wrong. The government shouldn't step in to appologize at all and these Islam representatists should learn to understand that we are allowed to say these things and not make a fuss about it.
Just like with the Muhammed scandal. It was so pathetic and downright stupid.
The problem is though that Islam and especially the extremists doesn't tolerate that we have freedom of speech and that the Dutch governement were pussies and appologized immidiately. Freedom of speech is very free even if the movie is based on misinformation and on that it could just aswell be 100% wrong. The government shouldn't step in to appologize at all and these Islam representatists should learn to understand that we are allowed to say these things and not make a fuss about it.
Just like with the Muhammed scandal. It was so pathetic and downright stupid.
Kaithofis
The Seldom Seen Kid
Seriously comon it's whiney scared government that appologizes that quickly. It shouldn't have appologized at all as they can't and shouldn't control what their citizens say and "do". The whole part about freedom of speech is that what we say shouldn't be limited no matter how idiotic it is.
Just as I have the right to say that lemmings and squirrels was responsible for 9/11.
Just as I have the right to say that lemmings and squirrels was responsible for 9/11.
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Kaithofis
The Seldom Seen Kid
As far as I know our government never apologized for the movie at all. I haven't been keeping up with things though to be honest, so it could be that I'm uninformed or it could be a misquotation by whatever medium you got that from.
Anyhoo, from what I know several politicians here (including our prime-minister) publicly distanced themselves from this movie and Wilders' personal views, which sounds like a completely reasonable (and logical) thing to do. You know how easy it is to give the wrong impression (especially when it concerns highly-flammable subjects, like Muslim extremists), so with that in mind I thought that the prime-minister did a good job by speaking out in public to say that the Dutch government doesn't share the view of Wilders. I doubt it will matter though, but at least he tried. :tup:
I'm reading the reactions of all the political parties right now, and all of them seem to be saying that this movie "added nothing new" and that it was a "missed shot". Overall the Dutch government and population seems to be pretty relieved/disappointed by the movie. Then again, after all the hype it shouldn't be a surprise that it disappointed.
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I never heard he just said they didn't share the view. It was apparently interpreted to "We appologize for not being able to stop it showing". I might be wrong as it was just a brief highlight in the news.
But in any ways they shouldn't appologize and if what you say is true they didn't. Fine by me.
But in any ways they shouldn't appologize and if what you say is true they didn't. Fine by me.
They didn't apologize ... they were being typical (Dutch) politicians.
They were too scared to say anything that might upset someone.
It's funny though that a large muslim-organization in the Netherlands effectively said that the 'movie' wasn't anything to get upset about, while the (Christian) government and media were acting as if WW3 was about to start.
This makes it pretty obvious that the terrorists have already won.
The only thing that has similar effect is painting a few swastikas on (jewish) graves ...
They were too scared to say anything that might upset someone.
It's funny though that a large muslim-organization in the Netherlands effectively said that the 'movie' wasn't anything to get upset about, while the (Christian) government and media were acting as if WW3 was about to start.
This makes it pretty obvious that the terrorists have already won.
The only thing that has similar effect is painting a few swastikas on (jewish) graves ...
The movie was meh and to quote some comment from a random newspaper
So the movie was meh. Kinda did expect some more offensive crap like a burning Quran crap like that. But then again Wilders is a member of parliament not a movie maker. Or the just like one member of parliament said
However Ehsan Jami a ex-muslim and a one man faction in parliament. This guy has recieved death threats from various religious nutters but then again he talks a lot of smack too. Anyway he also going to make anti Islam cartoon. According to this article (in dutch)http://www.nrc.nl/binnenland/article989053.ece/Ehsan_Jami_komt_op_20_april_met_anti-islamfilm
The movie will feature Mohammed the profet walking with Aisa his nine year old bride to a Mosque with a swastika to bone her. (so yeah the bar of this movie is already set high eh
) With this movie he wants to show that Islam is bad against woman, gays, etc
Yeah this movie will really do something good eh. I mean I dont like how Catholics talk smack about anticonception, abortus etc but you dont see make me a cartoon/movie featuring the pope performing a abortion on a woman while sodomizing a 8 year old boy to question the evil ways of the Church.
Gotta admit that all those movie and counter movies are getting a bit tiresome.
I dare you to come over here and speak **** about the nobility. If you make any insults about the queen it can you a 3 year sentence in prison. Hell you can get even into trouble for just saying "Long Live the Republic" (seeing this country was originally a REPUBLIC) IIRC some guy got a mega fine for calling Prince Alexander "dumb"
So yeah you can talk **** about anything overhere except about Jews, Homosexuals, environmentalists/animal rights activists and the Nobility.
random newspaper comment said:
So the movie was meh. Kinda did expect some more offensive crap like a burning Quran crap like that. But then again Wilders is a member of parliament not a movie maker. Or the just like one member of parliament said
random member of parliament said:
However Ehsan Jami a ex-muslim and a one man faction in parliament. This guy has recieved death threats from various religious nutters but then again he talks a lot of smack too. Anyway he also going to make anti Islam cartoon. According to this article (in dutch)http://www.nrc.nl/binnenland/article989053.ece/Ehsan_Jami_komt_op_20_april_met_anti-islamfilm
The movie will feature Mohammed the profet walking with Aisa his nine year old bride to a Mosque with a swastika to bone her. (so yeah the bar of this movie is already set high eh
) With this movie he wants to show that Islam is bad against woman, gays, etcYeah this movie will really do something good eh. I mean I dont like how Catholics talk smack about anticonception, abortus etc but you dont see make me a cartoon/movie featuring the pope performing a abortion on a woman while sodomizing a 8 year old boy to question the evil ways of the Church.
Gotta admit that all those movie and counter movies are getting a bit tiresome.
I dare you to come over here and speak **** about the nobility. If you make any insults about the queen it can you a 3 year sentence in prison. Hell you can get even into trouble for just saying "Long Live the Republic" (seeing this country was originally a REPUBLIC) IIRC some guy got a mega fine for calling Prince Alexander "dumb"
So yeah you can talk **** about anything overhere except about Jews, Homosexuals, environmentalists/animal rights activists and the Nobility.