EAS-INF-ReactorSector46-beta

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Fat Marrow

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Feb 27, 2002
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Edit: Release version now available! Needs additional map files from previous versions of the map....

The bots sometimes complete all the objectives (they really have improved since 2.86), but occasionally foul up.

Your comments are welcome, especially regarding:

- spawn points
- the choice of objectives
- the length of the relevant timers
- ambush positions
- tactics
- sniper actors (I may tweak these later -- it seems you can't limit them vertically, so many corridors get sniper warnings without good reason)

I haven't checked with Spooge on this one yet -- so please don't spread around too much.

Edit: requires previous version of map to be installed first
Edit #2: as ever, once I get to the point of asking for feedback, I'm too fed up to change the map much more :)
 
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sublime

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I'm snagging this now, but have a question...is it just Capture the CD or did you do something special? There are so many tools available to mappers for EAS missions I'm hoping to see more and more stuff like Mostar and Tuscany where it's more than just CD stuff. And it seems to me that this map is begging for some other stuff going on. ;)
 

Fat Marrow

Vegetable
Feb 27, 2002
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sublime said:
I'm snagging this now, but have a question...is it just Capture the CD or did you do something special? There are so many tools available to mappers for EAS missions I'm hoping to see more and more stuff like Mostar and Tuscany where it's more than just CD stuff. And it seems to me that this map is begging for some other stuff going on. ;)

It's not a capture-the-CD, although it's not exactly pushing out the boundaries of mapping either (due to the constraints of being done in a day ;) ).

If you have any ideas, let me know. I'm only going on unofficial sources of information about these things anyway... :)

One problem with this map is that it's hard to get a series of objectives which give the defenders a fair chance to get there first, but also give the attackers a variety of ways to do it. It's also a confusing enough map (due to size and complexity) before you start doing stuff like randomising spawns and objects... but this is all up for debate :)
 

keihaswarrior

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Ok, I have so many ideas for objectives in this map. But one of the best would be to make use of the cargo moving apparatus that is the central focus of section 6.

Here goes:
1) Attackers should spawn near outside entrance.
2) The first Defender spawn should place everyone scattered around the map randomly (and a little ways away from outside entrance). The rest of the defender respawns will be from a central location. I suggest the cargo railway on the lower part of section 4 for the central defender respawns.

Objectives:
Attackers-
A) Steal top secret prototype located in a box in sector 6. (see pic) An attacker would have to stand in the control box (green arrow) for the prototype to move along the blue line. The box would stop no matter what at the red points if the doors are not opened first. Once the box reaches the end, there is a small truck waiting that it is dropped into and the objective is complete.
An extra twist could be that the defenders can also open and close the doors. And, the defenders can stand in the control box themselves and have the box move backward!

B) Steal the valuable data (CD). This could be a second objective, or could be combined with C.

C) Attackers must also blow up the reactor as the last objective. This could be mulitpart (first disable safety, then stop coolant) or could just be one step. Another way to make it a multistep objective would be to make the attackers steal the manual override codes on a CD in one control room, then the CD carrier must insert the CD into another control room to disable the override safeties.

--Once the reactor starts to blow up, explosions could start to go off near the "blue liquid coolant room" and start to spread, catching attackers trying to make their exit. It would be in the best interest of the attackers not to blow the reactor when some attackers are still deep inside because they would die and increase the casualties suffered.
 

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Fat Marrow

Vegetable
Feb 27, 2002
767
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keihaswarrior said:
Ok, I have so many ideas for objectives in this map. But one of the best would be to make use of the cargo moving apparatus that is the central focus of section 6.

Here goes:
1) Attackers should spawn near outside entrance.
2) The first Defender spawn should place everyone scattered around the map randomly (and a little ways away from outside entrance). The rest of the defender respawns will be from a central location. I suggest the cargo railway on the lower part of section 4 for the central defender respawns.

Objectives:
Attackers-
A) Steal top secret prototype located in a box in sector 6. (see pic) An attacker would have to stand in the control box (green arrow) for the prototype to move along the blue line. The box would stop no matter what at the red points if the doors are not opened first. Once the box reaches the end, there is a small truck waiting that it is dropped into and the objective is complete.
An extra twist could be that the defenders can also open and close the doors. And, the defenders can stand in the control box themselves and have the box move backward!

B) Steal the valuable data (CD). This could be a second objective, or could be combined with C.

C) Attackers must also blow up the reactor as the last objective. This could be mulitpart (first disable safety, then stop coolant) or could just be one step. Another way to make it a multistep objective would be to make the attackers steal the manual override codes on a CD in one control room, then the CD carrier must insert the CD into another control room to disable the override safeties.

--Once the reactor starts to blow up, explosions could start to go off near the "blue liquid coolant room" and start to spread, catching attackers trying to make their exit. It would be in the best interest of the attackers not to blow the reactor when some attackers are still deep inside because they would die and increase the casualties suffered.

Interesting ideas. I like them, although there's a few problems I should mention:

- (1) That entrance spawn has the shortest routes to most places in the map, and as such I thought it might give an unfair advantage to the attackers

- (2) I did consider a defender/attacker spawn in the railway area, but the potential for spawn camping/nading seemed high.

- (A) this conveyor system can be done, I think, with ElevatorMovers, but would also require a bit of UScript on the side (to check if doors are open). This can be done but, in my experience, things I code in USCript rarely work reliably online :/

- (A) would need to have some kind of open top truck for this to work (more work :) )

- (B) and (C): I was trying to avoid any element of capturing CDs for a little variety, and I was also trying to avoid things blowing up (less work :D).

- overall, I was trying to avoid having too many objectives. Maybe that's wrong -- maybe instead this map should have a longer timer/more reinforcements...?

Notwithstanding all the above, I'll have a little play and see what I can do :)

Thanks for the feedback.
 

jbJOGI

puzzled?
Apr 15, 2001
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the beta can now be found on combatmaps.de

klick

maybe you'll get some feedback there...


what i noticed while playing:

- i got lost several times because the last time i played the TDM version was looooong ago! ;)
- the turbine control is hard to use. only in some few angles i was able to use the control
- maybe you want to add another alternative way to the second objective. it's hard to take
 
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Fat Marrow

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jbJOGI said:
the beta can now be found on combatmaps.de

klick

maybe you'll get some feedback there...


what i noticed while playing:

- i got lost several times because the last time i played the TDM version was looooong ago! ;)
- the turbine control is hard to use. only in some few angles i was able to use the control
- maybe you want to add another alternative way to the second objective. it's hard to take

Thanks very much.

Yah, even I get lost in this map :) Maybe it needs more signs?

I'll try and fix that turbine control. Problem was, the bots weren't using it unless I moved it slightly out of where it should be.

By 'second objective', do you mean the turbine control room? Hmm. Will give that some thought, although I might (as per KW's suggestion) replace this objective with a more complex Sector 6 cargo mover objective.
 

keihaswarrior

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What did you think about having the first defender spawn randomly spread out in the map? I think it would simulate them patrolling around and guarding the reactor.

Here is another idea. Instead of Defender overtime reinforcements always arriving at a certain time, tie it to an objective.
D) Place several alarm panels throughout the reactor. Defenders must grab/use these alarm panels in order to start a countdown clock to the arrival of reinforcements. Here is the catch though: You can't hit the alarm panel until someone from your team radios the auto confirmed kill message "tango down." Only then can someone hit the alarm panel which will start a countdown clock (maybe 2min) until defender reinforcements arrive.

Overall, I think that you should put the attacker spawn at the outside entrance since it makes the most sense, but have lots of objectives. On any map, the more objectives there are, the harder it is to win. Also, spreading out the FIRST defender spawn throughout the map would allow some of the defenders to get in position at all the objectives before the first attacker wave.
 

jbJOGI

puzzled?
Apr 15, 2001
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i think your problems with the sniper classes and the warning messages you receive on several floors can be solved easily.

just use many small classes insted of 1 big. therefore check the defender spawns in EAS-INF-BorderTown.
 

Fat Marrow

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keihaswarrior said:
What did you think about having the first defender spawn randomly spread out in the map? I think it would simulate them patrolling around and guarding the reactor.

In principle, I think it's a good idea. In practice, there's a danger that -- due to the complexity of the map -- you'd have defenders getting lost while the attackers blitz all the objectives. Also, with many objectives, your defenders might get spread too thin, allowing the attackers to punch through.

keihaswarrior said:
Here is another idea. Instead of Defender overtime reinforcements always arriving at a certain time, tie it to an objective.
D) Place several alarm panels throughout the reactor. Defenders must grab/use these alarm panels in order to start a countdown clock to the arrival of reinforcements. Here is the catch though: You can't hit the alarm panel until someone from your team radios the auto confirmed kill message "tango down." Only then can someone hit the alarm panel which will start a countdown clock (maybe 2min) until defender reinforcements arrive.

I'm going to have to defer to a 2.9 development person on this one. Can this be done easily? (I suspect it would require you to override several internal INF bits, which wouldn't be ideal).

keihaswarrior said:
Overall, I think that you should put the attacker spawn at the outside entrance since it makes the most sense, but have lots of objectives. On any map, the more objectives there are, the harder it is to win. Also, spreading out the FIRST defender spawn throughout the map would allow some of the defenders to get in position at all the objectives before the first attacker wave.

For the subsequent defender spawns, do you still think the railway bit would be a good spawn, or do you agree that it might be too easy to nade/camp?
 

Fat Marrow

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jbJOGI said:
i think your problems with the sniper classes and the warning messages you receive on several floors can be solved easily.

just use many small classes insted of 1 big. therefore check the defender spawns in EAS-INF-BorderTown.

Thanks, I'll take a look (although there may still be an overlap between floors, I think).

Presumably if your sniper actor radius is too small, you can sprint through without getting shot. Does anyone from the 2.9 team know what the minimum radius is? I guess that depends on the various sniper actor settings...
 

keihaswarrior

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I think the railway would be a good place, but it is easy to camp. Therefore, you should make another exit like in this screen. The green is the spawn area, the red is a corridor to the other platform. Also, the blue is a ladder.

I still think the first defender spawn should be spread out. Attackers should have the element of surprise at the start and the defenders will be a little confused at first. It will really add to the feel of the level that a strikeforce is invading the reactor that is patrolled all over by guards. But, I think the spread out spawn will help the defenders. It will allow them to get to the first objectives (the two doors, and cargo mover control) before the attackers. You can always place the first spread out spawns in locations that are not far from the objectives if you think the defenders are having too much trouble.
 

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Fat Marrow

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keihaswarrior said:
I think the railway would be a good place, but it is easy to camp. Therefore, you should make another exit like in this screen. The green is the spawn area, the red is a corridor to the other platform. Also, the blue is a ladder.

I still think the first defender spawn should be spread out. Attackers should have the element of surprise at the start and the defenders will be a little confused at first. It will really add to the feel of the level that a strikeforce is invading the reactor that is patrolled all over by guards. But, I think the spread out spawn will help the defenders. It will allow them to get to the first objectives (the two doors, and cargo mover control) before the attackers. You can always place the first spread out spawns in locations that are not far from the objectives if you think the defenders are having too much trouble.

Ok, that might work (and another route in the map -- just what it needed :) ). At the very least, I'll try and make another beta with the setup you describe, and people can tell me which version they prefer.
 

jbJOGI

puzzled?
Apr 15, 2001
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what i meant was that you set several sniper classes to protect the spawn:

in the order you may enter them:

1. sniper class with shoot radius = 0 and a small warning radius
this one will only warn the player
2. sniper class with big shoot radius and warning radius = 0
it doesn't matter if this radius includes gangways on other levels as the sniper class only shoots on visual contact and not through walls


so you will be warned first and only in this small area and not on several floors and then shot by the big sniper class which only shoots on direct visual contact

this way the doors are protected on BorderTown
 

Fat Marrow

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jbJOGI said:
what i meant was that you set several sniper classes to protect the spawn:

in the order you may enter them:

1. sniper class with shoot radius = 0 and a small warning radius
this one will only warn the player
2. sniper class with big shoot radius and warning radius = 0
it doesn't matter if this radius includes gangways on other levels as the sniper class only shoots on visual contact and not through walls


so you will be warned first and only in this small area and not on several floors and then shot by the big sniper class which only shoots on direct visual contact

this way the doors are protected on BorderTown

Oh, that's sounds good. Thanks again. :)
 

Fat Marrow

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Dr_Strangelove said:
What about moving spawns? It could either be that the spawns move after a primary objective, or it could simply be holding a spot for a specific time. See Iraq.

I generally like that idea in other maps, but I fear that the Reactor map is so damned non-linear that it would only end in mass confusion :)
 
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