EAS compared to other games?

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ZIRB

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Feb 24, 2001
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To people with an overview on similar games to the EAS-gamtype in INF I have some questions: In what ways does EAS differ from game titles that are close, I mean which have attackers and defenders. I'm still on Mac haven't played titels as AmericasArmy (the mac version dont work for me), Wolfenstein (that should have a quite good attacker/defender system what I have heard)....

Please give examples on games and in what way they differ from INF/EAS; what is better, what is worse...
 

Freon

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Jan 27, 2002
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EAS objectives are closer to what you can do in a single player game. There are also more flexible (even though most of the maps only use "capture the CD").
 

mat69

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Dec 9, 2001
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Ok, there are many games which use a similar system.

First there is a Quake 3 Mod called True Combat.
The acutal version is 1.1 (but it is not a new mod, they had to wait also two years for a version jump from 0.45 to 1.0 ;) ).
There are iron sights, you can lean - but only shoot with a pistol - you can not shoot while sprinting. You can not lie.
You can take one primary weapon, one secondary weapon and a pistol. Then you can take two nades (which are not really strong) and two smoke nades or flash nades. There is not nightvision. You can also take a helmet and a vest.
The missions are nice, a lot easier than in eas but somehow funnier. You have to blow things up very often (or steel a suitcase --> capture the cd). :)
And both teams have a mission on some maps, so you can finish the map as defender without killing all enemies. (one team has to take a mainboard, but it into a rocket and then start the rocket, the other team has to blow up the controll center and other things). If you can blow up something (even walls sometimes :) ) everybody in the team has c4, in the other team they have defuse kits.
Once you are in a prison, one team has to escape, the other to defend.
The camos are very hard to seperate, but it is possible (and often used) with he q3-engine to "mark" the teams.
Overall you get a shooter which has more action than inf, the missions are also much more interesting (EAS can be as complex as hell, but it is worth nothing if you have "only" ctcd).
The only bad thing is, that less people are playing the missions, most are playing ctf (the suitcase).

Another game is TTR (takes place in the 2nd world war).
You get also much more action there. You also have there ironsights, you can lie (forgot if you can lean), you have to press two buttons to throw a nade ...
It seems very realistic. The missions are mostly to take the secret documents, enigma, to capture some points on maps (very thrilling --> e.g. you need two players to capture something, than there is a bar [the longer you are in, the more filled it is] which has to be filled to capture something, if there is an enemy in the area the bar shrinks, so you have to kill him to capture it :) ) or to destroy something (blow up doors, big guns, a submarine ....).
But there are classes which are defined by the mapper, so there aren't any snipers on some maps, or only a few stg-shooters ...
Another problem is that nearly nobody is playing it.
But overall it has nice graphics, a really funny gameplay and is defintly worth a try.

Both examples play different than inf, but they are really interesting and offer some new aspects.
 

algonacy

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Jul 6, 2000
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Just went online trying out Call of Duty last night for the first time. There are some interesting gametypes on there I've not seen before. I don't own a huge amount of games though, so maybe they are not original at all, but they were for me. Some of them have bits and parts of Inf action, but nowhere near the whole experience. And most of the maps are dominated by snipers so it's not that great yet.
 

Big_Duke_06

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I really enjoyed the Return to Castle Wolfenstein multiplayer. It uses classes - soldiers (access to special weapons - rockets, flamethrowers, etc), LTs (can give ammo packs out, call in arty and air strikes), Medics (can hand out med packs and revive incapacitated players), and Engineers (more grenades, dynamite used to blow walls/doors and destroy objectives). Good stuff. I still play it to this day. To win a round, a team really has to work together - soldiers providing fire, medics and lts backing up the soldiers with fresh ammo and health, and engineers getting into place and blowing objectives. Very fun stuff. To this day, Depot and Market Garden are two of my favorite all-time game levels. Brilliant!

The free Enemy Territory multiplayer is less good, IMHO. They tried some new stuff, but took things a bit too far. Some of the maps are nice - fuel depot in particular... In that map, you have to escort a tank across the level (must have a friendly soldier within a certain radius of the tank and it moves on a pre-scripted path), the tank then blows up doors and fortress walls. Engineers must then plant dynamite and blow up the German fuel storage tanks. Great stuff. Again, teamwork really comes together with varied objectives like that...

I guess if you want to try a something pretty far from Infiltration (make no mistake, RtCW and Enemy Territory are at the far end of the realism scale) but with really good teamwork and objective-based maps, give it a free download.

Matthew
 

Beppo

Infiltration Lead-Programmer
Jul 29, 1999
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mmmh all what mat69 described sounds pretty much like our EAS too.

Both teams (attackers and defenders) can have totally seperate missions if the mapper wants to set this up.
We have area capture goals too that need a specific amount of team members to be there and if enemies show up you have to kill them aso.

So it sounds to be pretty much the same the way you described this.

The problem with two seperate missions for both teams is that the style of play can differ from "simply killing the enemy team to not allow them to do their job and then do our own to win" to "speed run, who finishes their mission faster". A lot of mixtures in between and the mapper is fully responsible for if it is fun or not. Can both teams hinder each other enough aso. A lot of things that can be abused and are really hard to balance most times. BUT possible with EAS too without question.
 

mat69

just fooling around
Dec 9, 2001
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POSSIBLE is much.
Most important part is what you HAVE.

But also important is that you test those games.
They sound similiar but play different, inf seems too "clean" compared with those. Capturing some areas in TTR is sooooo funny you can not compare it with inf, because there capturing an area is not that funny imo, only Tuscany comes close to the feeling you have in TTR. You have to play it, really.

True Combat is also different, but I like TTR more.

That does not mean that EAS is not good, it does only mean that you should try the other games. :)
Because I think you can learn much from e.g. TTR, complexity (in the code ;) ) is not always a key to funny and different missions.

Yes I am still a bit dissapointed with INF, so that is maybe why my text(s) sounds a bit harsh, it is hard to describe, I just expected "more" and I do not mean more maps and more weapons, I have never seen so many new maps at once and the weapons are great, the movement is nice (nearly the same as in 2.86) but there is missing something, and I find (or better found, because I have unistalled it for a clear UT) this in TTR and TC (still installed).
Somehow INF is not that funny (for me) anymore, most times DTAS+RAV2 was more thrilling and exiting for me, but I hope that the time will make me enjoy inf more than 2.86 and its mutators. :)

So please, you guys there, Beppo and the whole crowd throw away INF and play other games.
Really, put INF out of your thoughts make a break and look that other people have done, that is not an insult, it is just a common problem, you are too inside. ;)
AND then come back, after a month, you will see everything (or much) different, you will see goods in INF but also bad things and then you'll maybe make (again after a huge break, playing INF) the ultimate INF.


PS.: And also do not take everything(one) too serious ... ;)
PPS.: Or maybe it is just that I am a nostalgic.
 

Beppo

Infiltration Lead-Programmer
Jul 29, 1999
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hehe @mat, I try to pickup every mod out there that reaches a state of 'hey we are no alpha anymore' that is released on the UT engines and even on Battlefield. HL and Quake are not installed on my new system so I cannot check them out. Enemy Territory, Raven Shield aso or games like MaxPayne2 and CoD that are a bit 'newer' or NFSUG, FIFA, Armed&Dangerous aso are games that I do play or at least try out their demos.
I DO look at other games but most times I am not that impressed anymore or only impressed for a short amount of time or only by a few features. I often look at mods in a very very 'hard' way cause even if I really honour the hard work put into and I really respect the folks doing them I see the same faults everywhere that - sure - we made too but should not be copied over and over again. New ideas (am not saying that INF or EAS is something new) are hard to find and the 20th CS clone is nothing I want to see personally. Or mods that try to use objectives and mission type gameplay that result in purest TDM cause it is way easier to kill all enemies and this needs much lesser time and winning the 'round' is possible by eliminating the other team... that is what my 'harder' look then doesn't like and I only wish that the folks can make something more special and more balanced out of it within the next release. Then mods that try to archive this and only get a bunch of restrictions implemented that then slowly damages and finally destroys gameplay. Or adding 'cool' weapons that then make everything else look underpowered and so all switch to this one weapon cause it has such a big advantage... and many many more things that annoy me.

Even retail games do not get me hooked most times anymore. Ok, I play the games thru most times but I never touched CoD online for example cause playing on my own test server showed too much things that I did not like then and playing against masses of circle strafing bunny hoppers is nothing I even want to try out ... I'm not saying that all play this way... I only saw the possibility and that was enough to not even try it out unfortunately. MP2... cool stuff... played it thru one and a half times... then lost interest somehow. NFSUG... played it to race 60 or 70 pretty fast... then a week pause and then played the rest thru during the christmas holidays just to 'beat' it after costing some nerves with the ****ty system of "no matter how much seconds you managed to be in front of the others... they will come close automatically again without anything you can do against it... and one minimal mistake then can be enough to become only second or even worse". This almost drove me nuts but I was 'angry' enough to finally beat it (partially using cheap tactics of blocking the other drivers or pushing them into the barriers, buildings aso to let them crash). Funny was that the final races were way easier than only a few races before and the last five or more races were not even a challenge then anymore.

Well, but to TTR... I guess I should check out their latest version it seems... always give another chance to make a good impression. ;) (actually true for everything out there)
 

-Freshmeat

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As of right now, the True Combat mission system is a bit more limited than EAS, as you cannot secure areas or move the respawn points.
/commercial mode on
Most of the twosided missions are pretty balanced. The gameplay in mission is somewhat slow, as it takes 30 seconds to blow something up. So if you just sprint to an objective area, you will not have time to cover it, you will get shot, and the enemy defuses the bomb. I think the really big difference between TC and INF is that almost all TC servers have unlimited reinforcements. TC is exclusively QCB, so people die to quick for limited respawns. Recoil is different: The weapon bucks a lot, but does not raise that much. Thus many weapons handle very well for full auto fire when less than 10 meters away. Damage is range-dependent, killing a man takes 1 wellplaced shot at close range and 2-4 on longer ranges, depending on weapon and the definition of "longer".

Also, allthough INF looks good, TC looks better. A case of smaller maps with more polys. This screenshot shows a typical level and a typical weapon reload animation (ctc_skirmish by Liquid, m4 and playermodels by Race). I just shot the guy on the container using about 10 rounds on full-auto.

-Freshmeat (/commercial mode off)
 

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Da_Blade

Da sharpest man around!
Jan 29, 2002
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Hehe, i was just going to say "You think that looks BETTER?". It might have been a bad screenie, but just the weapon model already looks bad to me. It all seems blurred,, a matter of bad textures i suppose.
 

keihaswarrior

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Jan 7, 2003
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The player model and weapon models in True combat definately look better than INF. But True Combat has loads of problems.
Only one gametyped played: CTF
Levels are all tiny cramped urban fights.
All weapons are cocked everytime you switch to them :rolleyes:
Weapons recoil is followed by a downward drop. Which seems nice until you compensate for the recoil and see your view snap to the floor after you stop firing. :/
Sniper rifles drop down to the exact same spot everytime after recoil.
No prone
No bob/breathin effects
Players take a lot of bullets to drop (5 M4 hits I believe).

It can be fun, but it plays kinda like a more realistic version of CS.
 

mat69

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Dec 9, 2001
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No, that is not true.
You need less shoots out of a M4 to kill somebody, I am not sure how many, but I am sure that you need less.
With the AK I only need two hits normally.
Quake is not really an engine for terrain maps, there is one for TC (you are playing in a wood), but that is not what the engine was done for and in fact there are also big maps, some of the official are not that "tiny" and some others (converted 0.45) maps are also big.
Sometimes you can play mission (if there are enough people voting for it or if there are some server), so only CTF is not really true. You can compare it with 2.9. Most server use EAS, but there are some which use Specialist or TDM.
Yes it is a realistic acarde game ;)
But it is true, you'd expect less strange things (like switching the weapons) after two years and you'd also expect more converted 0.45 maps, but you can get them now, in 1.1.
 

-Freshmeat

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At close range, people drop dead after being hit once or twice with an M4, even if they wear armor I did tests against stationary players after the current release. However, if you try to snipe at long ranges, the damage drop is a bit to drastic for realism, and the quoted 5 shots seems right. It works OK because the maps are very shortranged, 50m visibility normally being max, though the map itself is bigger. Q3 engine uses exclusively something like UT zones for controlling the number of drawn polys. You would not be able to do a map like Arid or Stalingrad on Q3. However, it handles 20000 triangle surfaces in view very smooth, so it is a give and take. Q3 is designed for maps like A City Block, and would be able to make it a lot more detailed.

It is true, and much bitched about, that the weapon is being cocked on drawing. IIRC, it will be changed in future versions.

The way the weapons settle is a matter of taste. I keep finding myself having to raise my mouse from the table in Inf. Also, the recoil induces more randomness than people think. A lot of the hits they think is needed to down an enemy is in fact not hits. (But the sniper rifles needs a more random drop, I agree)

Prone is very difficult to do reliably on Q3, and with the short range maps, it is not something you really need.

True, CTF is the most common gametype, but most descent servers uses a mix of CTF and mission.

For me, the pros of the two games are:

Inf:
Big outdoor maps
Minimi
Grenade launchers
Better bots
Prone position
Potentially better mission system (I think EAS has a great future ahead)

TC:
Prettier (Allthough I realise that is subjective) and more details per scene.
Runs 25% faster on average (A big consideration with my 566 celeron / GF2).
Close urban fights.
Better handling of recoil on non-sniper weapons (Also very subjective).
Ability to climb all surfaces you can reach.
Flashbangs.
Faster netcode and lag compensation (I cannot get Inf to run smooth online, even when i try to tweak netspeed).
And a clan (including my wife) of TC players unwilling to change ;).

I think that both mods has very strong points, and I do not think that I will quit playing either.

-Freshmeat (My sig in TC forums:

Infiltration: The other mod worth playing)