DRM Shuts Down Gears of War PC - Updated

[Leak]

The leechers only accept an offer in the internet, and theoretically, they cannot be held responsible for that, because they cannot know, that the offer is illegal (it's like buying a stolen car, and not knowing about it).

Sorry, but if you think that a free download for a full-price game that's not been out long enough to have ended up in the bargain bin already is a legal download that's somehow endorsed by the game's makers you need to seek professional help.

You'd probably also be very suspicious if someone were to give you a car for free - to stay with your analogy - but I can't see that happening; car thieves usually sell cars, they don't donate them...

np: 808 State - Icecream On Elm Street (808 Archives Part III)

 

[TheSomian]

I didn't say, that it's legal, i just said, that you cannot be sure that 100% of the ppl accepting that "offer" know, that it's illegal. Yes, i would be suspicious, but how about someone telling me that i won the car or something? Am i a criminal then?

Of course, 95% of the "pirates" are aware of the downloads being illegal, but what about the other 5%? if you don't read games magazines etc. and just google "free game download" and click a download link for let's say Gears of War, why should you know that it's illegal to download it?

Methinks that number is rather hyberbolic.. if only 5% of gamers actually bought games, then thouse 5% certainly do buy an impressive amount of them to reach the sales figures games actually reach..

at least, 95% of the gamers i know are pirating games. If I go to school, pirated games are shared there like it is normal (and it IS normal, if everyone is doing it) and i'm the only one who buys games.

And it's not hyperbolic, imo.

let's say, a game- Call of Duty 4 (PC), for example, sells 2 million copies (which is freaking much), it means, that 38 million ppl pirated it. It sounds much, but the world is large, and i believe, it's possible. even in germany, there are probably 5 million gamers, and like 50% played CoD4. (idk anyone who didn't play it yet) so, if there were 500000 units sold in germany (which is much), we still have 2 million ppl pirating the game. If you look at china, which has MUCH more citizens, and where almost nobody actually buys games, you'll see, that 38 million pirated copies is realistic.

 

[213]

I'd like to see some explanation of the cause and effect relationship you think exists between no piracy and harsher measures. I hate DRM, but this seems silly. Corporations are evil? You have fallen hook, line, and sinker for what makes great movies and political careers.

Well I'm pretty sure there isn't a rash of this "crime" going on, but, apparently in New York state, it is still illegal to bathe your mule/donkey in the bath tub inside your own home. I'm searching for the exact code, but I do remember reading it in an ethics class, and had to raise my hand and ask the teacher why they didn't specify "horse", as I'm sure more people had horses than donkeys. He said in over a decade of pointing out this pointless, ego-based, control issue laden law, not one student had ever asked that.

DRM is the fukkin devil. It is the MAIN reason I finally got pushed to the dark side and started pirating a game before I decide whether to buy or not.

The question: "Will this be worth the hassle to install and get it running legit?" is first on my mind nowadays. The same goes for a pirated version that require me to have a PHD in software design. If it's not user friendly, and easy to install and get going, I'm not gonna bother.

My copy of Gears for Windows runs just fine. I haven't noticed a single instance of "PLAYTIME DENIED". .. 'course my copy didn't come off of a store shelf.

 

[Grobut]

at least, 95% of the gamers i know are pirating games. If I go to school, pirated games are shared there like it is normal (and it IS normal, if everyone is doing it) and i'm the only one who buys games.

And it's not hyperbolic, imo.

Thats because you go to school, kids have allways been big on pirating, i used to when i was younger too, it was really the only realistic way for me to get games back then, i certainly coulden't afford them.
But then you get older and start making real money, and things change, it actually becomes easier for you to buy them, rather than messing around with torrents and finding the right cracks, and most people will either stop pirating at that point, or tone it waaay down and only pirate a few things (like Photoshop, which costs an arm and a lung), but pay for the majority of it.

I still know a few of the guys i used to hang out with when we where younger, and we all used to be pirates, who got all of our games through piracy (save for the occational B-day present, else, it was all warez), we where even doing it before the internet, but you know how many of them pirate games today? not one, and we are all gamers.

And don't think its because games are cheap here in Soviet Denmark either, we pay the same you do, only we have higher sales taxes.

let's say, a game- Call of Duty 4 (PC), for example, sells 2 million copies (which is freaking much), it means, that 38 million ppl pirated it. It sounds much, but the world is large, and i believe, it's possible. even in germany, there are probably 5 million gamers, and like 50% played CoD4. (idk anyone who didn't play it yet) so, if there were 500000 units sold in germany (which is much), we still have 2 million ppl pirating the game. If you look at china, which has MUCH more citizens, and where almost nobody actually buys games, you'll see, that 38 million pirated copies is realistic.

Thease are all numbers you just pulled out of your posteriour.

Besides, show me how many of thease alleged warez copies constitute a lost sale, because that's what it's really about, how many of thease people would ever pay real money for thease games if they somehow coulden't pirate them?

If it's not actually a lost sale, and many of them are not going to be, then there's no money lost, but ofcourse, nobody can really prove how many warez copies are or are not a lost sale, and the water only gets muddier when we know some people will actually buy a game they have pirated if they like it, and thus it was not a lost sale, but it still adds another digit to the list of downloads.

 

[TheSomian]

so, pirating it, if you don't have the money is a trifle?

I mean, is it legitimate to pirate photoshop just because it's more expensive? No, and that's the reason why i don't have photoshop yet. I'm using it at school (and everyone there except me is using a pirated CS3), but i donb't have the money to buy it for myself, so i don't get it at all. It's Adobes decision. If they think, they make more money, selling their apps for $10000 instead of $100 (which will give them more customers, probably), they can do that. One day, maybe, i'll have the money to buy photoshop, and if i don't, then i can't use it (or only the test versions )
It's that simple.

 

[Grobut]

I didn't say it was the morral thing to do, just that it's not a lost sale for the Dev if the end user coulden't or woulden't have bought it in the first place.

Weak strawman is weak.

 

[TheSomian]

ok, lemme get this right...

function isthisok(pirate,product)
{
	pirate.get_data(pirate);
	product.get_data(product);

	if (pirate.bPirateIsGoingToSchool==true)
	{
	return true;
	}
	if (pirate.age <= 16)
	{
	return true;
	}
	int reasonableprice = (pirate.income.yearly/300);
	if(product.licensecost>=reasonableprice)
	{
	return true;
	}
	if(product.bProductIsDRMProtected)
	{
	return true;
	}
	if(product.producer=="microsoft inc.")
	{
	return true;
	}
	if(product.bGameSucks)
	{
	return true;
	}
	outputdebugstring("should not see this");
	return false;
}
function bad(reason)
//the pirate is bad
{
	console.writeline("It's not ok, because"+reason);
	outputdebugstring("this shouldn't happen at all!");
}
function good(reason);
{
	console.writeline("It's ok, because"+reason);
	this.exit;
}
void main()
{
	if (isthisok(particularpirate,particularpieceofsoftware)==false)
	{
		product.get_data(particularpieceofsoftware);
		if(product.producer.bCompanyStillExists==true)
		{
			good("the company sold enough compies of the product anyway");
		}
		if(product.bHasSequel==true)
		{
			good("the game sold well enough");
		}
		if(product.sales>=100000)
		{
			good("the game sold good and this one pirate wouldn't have bought it anyway");
		}
		if(product.bHasMultiplayer==true)
		{
			good("there is no need to buy it, if he doesn't want to play MP, enough ppl are playing it online");
		}
	 	if(product.bIsMMORPG==true)
		{
	 		good("if he's playing on inofficial servers, there's no server cost to the games initial publisher");
		}
		int averageloss=((product.sales/world.population)*product.licensecost);
		if(averageloss<1)
		{
			good("umm.. come on! the probability for the pirate to actually buy the game is so small, that the company would have lost less than one dollar!");
		}
		bad("the company didn't sell enough copies and the piracy had impact on the selling");
	}
	else
	{
		good("the pirate does the right thing.");
	}
}

 

[Kazimira]

This is why DRM should not be encoraged. Theres to much with another extra program that can go wrong.

 

[Kantham]

Guys, this problem is not limited to Epic games.

Yes, it is.

Well, we made an embarrassing mistake: we signed the executable with a certificate that expired in a way that broke the game.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Yes, it is.

http://www.neoseeker.com/news/9759-gears-of-war-pc-killed-by-anti-cheat-detection/

 

[BooGiTyBoY]

To put it in perspective, I think stealing games because you want an extended demo is like saying "The test drives they give at car dealerships are too short. So I like to come back on Sundays when they're closed, and steal the cars off the lot. I drive them around for 24 hours, and then bring them back. If I like it, I'll come back on Monday and buy it."

Not the same thing at all as the car you test drive off the lot is going to drive exactly the same way when you buy it and pick it up. You also have no misconceptions of how the car accelerates, handles, etc. It's gonna be the same no matter how long you test drive it.

Same does not hold true with pc games. Ive had demos run like a dream and then the full version run craptastic. Also like I said, think of all the games you played a demo for and went WOW this is AWESOME. Then got the full version and played it for like an hour before you realized "hey.. this is the same thing over and over..." and took it off your hard drive.
Once again, I may rationalize why I do it but I also dont pretend it's "okay" (which is why I run IP blockers when I download).

95% of the ppl do. But I don't believe, that you play the game, and then buy it, just for the sake of having bought it, since you already played it.

Wow, thanks for outright calling me a liar
I DO go buy games I like and know I will play again and again, even if it's a once through then a reinstall months later, which is how I came to find out my LEGAL copy which I PUCHASED of Gears of War wasn't working. I also purchase games I like so I can guarantee I can play them with the latest patch versions, mods, etc. Theres a lot more reason to buy a game than "just for the sake of having it." If that was the reason I'd just keep my torrented files.

 

[-=WolverinE=-]

TheSomian, you have no proof of what you're saying, just speculation. You can't even give a good example of who pirates software and who doesn't, because you're only thesis is based on what you've seen, which is one school. And again we enter the realm of prejudice... Germany sells a lot of games so does my country Bulgaria.

An online store recently opened here and they are selling a lot of games for consoles and PC at a great price. This doesn't mean everyone is buying games of course, but the sales here rose up a lot, because of the good offers that were lacking before. More and more people tell others to buy things on a large torrent tracker in my country. And it does have a positive effect on sales. This of course doesn't mean piracy has stopped, no. It means more people decided to spend their money for something they should.

So regardless of whether the said person will buy the game or not, telling him what he should do will have an impact later on. Hell, the only way to get games here a several years ago was through torrents and I didn't even have internet connection at that time. Of course I knew games cost money, but I had no option to buy them. Now I do though and I buy most of my games. Maybe in a few years I'll stop pirating completely like Grobut said (doesn't mean I'll stop using cracks; fakk DRM!).

 

[TheSomian]

//do i need to buy it?
function buyornot(game);
{
	game.getdata(game);
	if(game.AverageGameplayTime>20) //in hours


		return "yes";
	if(game.bIsModdable==true)
		return "yes";
	if(game.bCrackForLatestVersionAvailable==false)
		return "yes";
	return "no"; //there's no need to buy the game, since I already get full quality with the pirated versions
}

you can still buy any game. If it's too short, and you know it, don't buy it. If you don't know it, and don't want to buy it and finish it after 6 hrs, don't buy it, if you don't know, if it's worth buying, just don't buy it.

I don't see any reason for pirating a game except not being willing to pay for.

TheSomian, you have no proof of what you're saying, just speculation. You can't even give a good example of who pirates software and who doesn't, because you're only thesis is based on what you've seen, which is one school. And again we enter the realm of prejudice... Germany sells a lot of games so does my country Bulgaria.

I never said, that i know it, I know, that it's speculation, but i can hardly believe, that all of the ppl pirating games like crazy will turn into good customers, just because they have more money. It's not only cheaper to pirate a game, but faster (in some cases), safer (like the examplein germany), and better (no need to fiddle with starforcepatches etc. for ages)

[...]More and more people tell others to buy things on a large torrent tracker in my country. And it does have a positive effect on sales. [...]

I told many ppl they should buy the games and they told me i'm stupid and laughed. it's just abnormal to buy games. And it's not only about the youngppl in school even ourteacher is giving pirated photoshops etc. to us, because it's just normal.

[...]Now I do though and I buy most of my games. Maybe in a few years I'll stop pirating completely like Grobut said (doesn't mean I'll stop using cracks; fakk DRM!).

not a bad thing cracks are necessary as i wrote above.

 

[Alopexau]

I need to ask about piracy numbers... in all reality, just how many of these compulsive pirates were going to buy the game in the first place if there was no free download? I'm willing to assume a hell of a lot more than not wouldn't, so there's alot of 'lost sales' that are being counted that never would have happened to begin with.

Piracy isn't the big problem, DRM however is.

 

[Manticore]

We have been notified of the issue and are working with Microsoft to get it resolved. Sorry for any problems related to this. I'll post more once we have a resolution.

Not being able to play a game you bought legitimately is a pretty big issue. It's a shame the law doesn't protect legitimate consumers against this type of thing.

Congrats to epic/microsoft for coming up with DRM that ended up punishing every single paying customer without punishing any pirates at all.

I think I'll just buy GOW 1......

...... "Epic" fail.

 

[BooGiTyBoY]

Not being able to play a game you bought legitimately is a pretty big issue. It's a shame the law doesn't protect legitimate consumers against this type of thing.

Actually it does. It's called the Better Business Bureau and Epic is pretty lucky they dont have a buttload of customers contacting them right now.

I got my $50 back on the first Titan's Quest because even after 2 patches the thing simply refused to connect online to anyone regardless of the countless forum posts with complaining people saying it doesnt work.

Contacted the BBB and within' 2 weeks or so I had a check directly from Iron Lore Entertainment.

 

[Manticore]

Actually it does. It's called the Better Business Bureau and Epic is pretty lucky they dont have a buttload of customers contacting them right now.

Thanks for the info. We have Fair Trading laws here that do much the same thing.

It's interesting to see how it works in your part of the world.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

The better business bureau isn't really an entity that takes action though, it's intention is to inform customers about shoddy business practices and help them decide if they can trust a certain company with their business.

What more than likely happened is that you contacted the developer, telling them you filed a complaint with the BBB and they sent you a check to make sure you'd shut up about it.

 

[Hideinlight]

DRM didn't have anything to do with it...

Mark Rein

The online cheat detection features in Gears of War for Windows are based on digital signatures. Well, we made an embarrassing mistake: we signed the executable with a certificate that expired in a way that broke the game.

We're working with Microsoft to re-sign the binaries properly, and hope to have this fixed very soon. We know how much this situation sucks, and we apologize for the inconvenience.

In the mean time a work-around for this is to set your computer's date back to a date before today.

 

[BooGiTyBoY]

The better business bureau isn't really an entity that takes action though, it's intention is to inform customers about shoddy business practices and help them decide if they can trust a certain company with their business.

What more than likely happened is that you contacted the developer, telling them you filed a complaint with the BBB and they sent you a check to make sure you'd shut up about it.

Actually yeah, they do take action. I submitted my complaint.
Next I received an email saying my complaint was received and would be investigated.
Next I received an email asking what I would consider to be a positive outcome.
I replied saying my $49.99 returned for the game.
I then received my check in the mail.

I also never contacted the game company except through their support system which kept kicking back replies of "no known fix."