Double sidearms?

[striderteen]

Very true. The A-10 was designed to replace the Skyraider, with the huge advantage of being heavily armored to it could go low and slow (compared to fast-attack jets) without getting blasted out of the sky.

The Hind is essentially a helo-Warthog with similar armoring and similar speed, and as such is one of the world's best CAS aircraft.

 

[Snakeye]

The Mi24 is sure as hell no helo-warthog.

The A10 is a tank killer; it was designed around the GAU8A 30mm seven barreled gatling gun. The fireing barrel of the GAU8A is in the exact middle of the aicraft, since the pilot would loose controll otherwise. The gun alone is said to penetrate 220mm steel armor and has a ROF of about 4000rpm IIRC. Two bursts are enough to slow the A10 down that much, that the A10 has to fly a bit back and 'collect' speed.
Apart from killing tanks CAS is the A10s job, but it's main role is tank busting.

The Mi24 is something like a flying IFV. Consider it as BMP3 or Bradley with rotors. It carries a small squad of infantry and can support them or anyone else with ATGMs, 57 and 82mm rockets, AA8 AAMs and 12.7mm 4 barreled GG or 23/30 cannons. It can be effective against tanks, but it's main role is not tank busting.

If you are searching for a rotor warthog, KA50, KA52(2-seat version of KA50), Mi28 or AH64 are what you are searching for. Though none of them can really be compared to an A10. Fixed wing is just something different to helicopters. Try to hover in an A10, or try to fly faster than 500kph with an helicopter, both is impossible..

Snakeye

 

[striderteen]

True, the Warthog is more a dedicated anti-tank platform than a general-purpose CAS aircraft...it's STILL the only real CAS platform in the Air Force.

I had the opportunity to get up close and personal with a Hog at Miramar...the GAU-8 is truly fearsome, especially when you look down the barrel from two inches away.

 

[striderteen]

I should pay more attention to myself.

Originally posted by striderteen
The Hind is more versatile, it's an aerial APC with an attitude.

 

[Snakeye]

I also got to see an A10 during an airshow in Klagenfurt, Austria. I took a picture of the GAU8 and it still looks awesome on the small photograph.

As for CAS - the USAF tried to modify the F16 for CAS by adding the GPU5 pod IIRC. It contains a GAU13, the sweet little four barreled sister of the GAU8. They both use the same ammo, but since the weapon was pod mounted accuracy was as good as non-existing, and since not much ammo was carried(350rds or so) cluster bombs proved more effective.
In short terms, yep the A10 is about the only dedicated CAS aircraft in the AF.

Oh, and the A10 was nor really a replacement for the A1. In fact the A1 had been put out of service before the Vietnam war, but was in service again because F4s and F105s proved too inaccurate for CAS and couldn't stay over the target long enough. The A1 could and carried much ordonance, including bombs, napalm and four 20mm cannons. It was accurate due to it's low speed and could circle quite a while over the own troops and support them.
In every single book about Vietnam I read, A1s were said to be the best and most liked CAS fixed-wing aircraft. Downed pilots, SOG members as well as chopper pilots and normal troopers liked them, because they usually provided best air cover.

Snakeye

 

[Kisen_K]

Hah, Solid Snake will take down a Hind anyday

 

[Gholam]

F4s to inaccurate for CAS? Interesting, IAF used them in every possible role, used them a lot, and had no complaints...

 

[Snakeye]

Jesus, we are talking about Vietnam era F4s. Not those nifty F4s probably modified by the IAF with nice ballsitic computers to hit within a 10m radius.
Apart from that a F4 making one pass with napalm or bombs and then going back to base/carrier doesn't make much of a ground support. Remember that Vietnam era F4 had no internal cannon!
They also were pretty much too fast to see a couple of VCs in a rice paddy to shoot them with anything. The A1 could make multiple passes and put bombs napalm and cannon fire on the enemy.

I didn't say the F4 is a bad aircraft. In fact it can be considered as one of the first multirole aircraft - though it was better at air-to-air combat than at strike. The F4G is about the best Wild-Weasel aircraft there was. The F4 is good, but in Vietnam I'd not even think about CAS with this aircraft, it wasn't built for that, and strike aircraft could do that better - i.e. A4, A7, A6 and A1.

Snakeye
PS: what is a solid snake?

 

[striderteen]

Oh, and the A10 was nor really a replacement for the A1. In fact the A1 had been put out of service before the Vietnam war, but was in service again because F4s and F105s proved too inaccurate for CAS and couldn't stay over the target long enough. The A1 could and carried much ordonance, including bombs, napalm and four 20mm cannons. It was accurate due to it's low speed and could circle quite a while over the own troops and support them.
In every single book about Vietnam I read, A1s were said to be the best and most liked CAS fixed-wing aircraft. Downed pilots, SOG members as well as chopper pilots and normal troopers liked them, because they usually provided best air cover.

Yes, it would be more accurate to say that the failure of the F4 and F105 at CAS, combined with the success of the A-1, sparked the creation of the A-10.

In every single book about Vietnam I read, A1s were said to be the best and most liked CAS fixed-wing aircraft. Downed pilots, SOG members as well as chopper pilots and normal troopers liked them, because they usually provided best air cover.

Yup. Sandys were always the best air cover.

Vietnam War...that's where my family's from, so it's a pet topic of mine.

Remember that Vietnam era F4 had no internal cannon!

Helluva big mistake. Guns are obsolete...NOT!

 

[OICW]

Fur: when I said AA I meant "air to air" missiles.

AIM is Air Intercept Missile like you said.

an sidewinder AIM-9X is different from a FIM-92 Stinger.

The F-104 StarFight had tiny wings, it could carry about two 500lb bombs if I remember correctly.

Not that much, it doesn't surprise meThe F-104 was a FIGHTER, not an Fighter-Bomber.

Master of all trades? See my LAST paragraph of my other post to try and end this debate.

 

[Euphoric Beaver]

Originally posted by Snakeye
Vietnam is over for nearly 30 years and the world changed a lot since then.

It sure did. America gets laughed at more.

 

[Puncher]

The F-104G is the fighter-bomber version, which was ordered in large numbers by the German Air Force. If not for the Luftwaffe, almost no F-104s would have been built at all.
I spoke with a former German pilot of the F-104 once. He said once the landing gear wouldn't deploy, so he ejected rather than risking to die in a belly landing. Then he had to fill out the standard damaged/lost item form. As part of his statement, he wrote "I am not willing to pay for the damages I caused" which got him into some trouble

 

[GNAT]

uhhhh double side arms??????????????

yes

a10's + f4's = DSA?

no