Demo (alpha)????

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Prophetus

Old Fart
Dec 4, 1999
3,099
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...standing behind you...
Originally posted by LeonTheProfi
I don´t want to get it, I already have and play it !

I don´t understand what u mean with "stolen" ?
Did Epic plan to sell it ? (I mean the alpha version)
No, the only thing was to show the users a small part of the coming game. No more, no less.

U could play (better word would be "try") it on the E3 for free.
So why to hell can´t I play / try it at home ?
If I would get 2 the E3 to see / play my most favorite upcoming game, I had to travel around the half world !!

That's about the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. So, if you let me borrow your TV and I gave parts of it away, you would claim I stole your TV. Did you plan to make money from your TV? Did you plan to sell it? NO. You allowed me to use it. But I took it and gave it to other people. That's stealing.

Stolen property does not have to make profit. It's considered stolen because the pre-alpha was given in trust for testing purposes. The individual (s) gave that product away to others, without permission. Just because they displayed the pre-alpha at E3 doesn't change the fact it's private property.

Geez, if you displayed your customized computer at a LAN, does that automatically make it a public and free computer...???? Sure, computers and code are two seperate things, but they are still personal property.

What you people fail to realize is this very situation convinces most developers to not trust the public. Back in the day, normal people were given pre-alphas to test. But because idiots would leak the pre-alphas, companies decided to hire in house testers.

Now, the testers are suspects. It's bad enough beta testers are treated like slaves, but to have them suspected of leaking pre-alphas...geez...no wonder we get buggy products.

This isn't about bad publicity, it's about Legend and Epic's opinion of grass roots policies. There isn't manydevelopers who would speak to their fans, outside an interview. Keep biting them in the @ss and they'll change their policy. People who stole, downloaded and gave away the pre-alpha are selfish inconsiderate morons.

Yeah, you got to play your favorite game, but the real fans will pay the price.
 

Tetris L

Smartass
Feb 15, 2000
3,136
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Germany
cleaned.beyondunreal.com
Originally posted by LeonTheProfi
U could play (better word would be "try") it on the E3 for free.
So why to hell can´t I play / try it at home ?
If I would get 2 the E3 to see / play my most favorite upcoming game, I had to travel around the half world !!
Let's get that straight, cos this is complete BS. You could not simply play or try U2 at the E3! Legend gave a presentation behind closed doors to a very limited group of chosen representatives from gaming websites and magazines. None of them ever touched the mouse. Epic had full control and showed them only specific things they wanted to show; and that's what this built was made for. Not for everybody to explore whatever he wants.


Epic will not lost any cent because the alpha is released in the web! They will get more customers as before the alpha, because it´s really impressive and after playing this alpha you just must buy this fantastic game !!
Here I tend to agree with you and that's why I got a little problem with the way Legend handeled the situation. They did not manage to convince me that this leak has done big harm to neither to the reputation of the game nor to the potential sales numbers. Thus I won't join the witchhunting that's going on now. I don't blame any Unreal fan that distributed the thing. I admit I have it myself and I don't feel guilty about it. (It doesn't run on my current machine, but I've got it burned on CD for the time I update my hardware.)

Originally posted by Prophetus
What you people fail to realize is this very situation convinces most developers to not trust the public. Back in the day, normal people were given pre-alphas to test. But because idiots would leak the pre-alphas, companies decided to hire in house testers.
Errrm ... the built that was leaked was not a built made for testing. It doesn't look like it was one of their testers who has leaked it. It looks more like somebody forgot that E3 presentation built on some harddrive or forgot to delete a mirror backup ghost. Maybe even during E3.
 
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LeonTheProfi

Guest
@ Prophetus:

U must remeber one different :

If u stolen my TV, I don´t have my TV anymore.
But the Alpha version was only COPIED, so Epic didn´t lost it !!
The only different now is, that we can try it ourself now and have a look at the actually stand of development.
So, what´s wrong of it ?
Well, u can´t play it multiplayer or singleplayer. But just that one thing, that u can move around yourself and don´t have to look a "stupid" video is really fantastic !
Stolen or not, I saw it and I have to say one thing :

IT´S FANTASTIC !!!

Go on Epic ! U will do the best game ever came out !!!

Cy@

Leon
Leon
 

Zaccix

Truth, by Banksy
Nov 10, 1999
3,370
1
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London, UK
Originally posted by -The-Tetris-L-
Here I tend to agree with you and that's why I got a little problem with the way Legend handeled the situation. They did not manage to convince me that this leak has done big harm to neither to the reputation of the game nor to the potential sales numbers. Thus I won't join the witchhunting that's going on now. I don't blame any Unreal fan that distributed the thing. I admit I have it myself and I don't feel guilty about it. (It doesn't run on my current machine, but I've got it burned on CD for the time I update my hardware.)
There's a simple truth that runs through all the arguments and theories about the U2 alpha: anyone who has it outside of Legend is in possession of stolen property. You can try to justify it a million and one ways, but that basic truth holds true through all of it.

Legend don't need to do anything more than simply to continue working on U2. People have seen the alpha and have made assumptions on the full game based on it. The alpha has provided a way for many people to suddenly feel big and say "hey, I've got something way ahead of everyone else!"

Just to go off on a tangent here, this all kinda reminds me of the time before the Duke Nukem Forever E3 trailer came out. People were questioning whether the game was even in development and making all kinds of half-assed comments about the way that 3D Realms had imposed a media blackout on the game. The gaming sites needed something to encourage people to bring in more hits, the journos needed something to brag about and the pundits needed something to dissect and argue over while they sat at their computers all day.

3D Realms said that they wanted to bring back that old-school feeling of waiting for a game to come out, then eagerly bringing it home and playing it without practically knowing all about it through media previews and reviews. I kinda sympathised with that, because I remember buying and bringing home Amiga games and getting my first true taste of them from actually playing the finished article, not having practically played the entire game through a magazine.

Yeah, I'll report news on U2 as it comes in, but legit news. I'm sure that Aida's head tracking is awesome, but I'll find that out through playing the full game, or the demo, next year, not a 10% complete alpha build.
 

Tetris L

Smartass
Feb 15, 2000
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Originally posted by Zaccix
There's a simple truth [...] the U2 alpha: anyone who has it outside of Legend is in possession of stolen property.
Certainly strictly reading the law that is true. But like I said: Legend didn't convince me that I do any harm to them or the game when I look at it, thus I don't feel guilty doing it. I'm not actively distributing the alpha and there is no info from it in the FAQ. But I did my best to get the alpha and screenshots from it, for my personal pleasure.

... but I'll find that out through playing the full game, or the demo, next year, not a 10% complete alpha build.
I respect and congratulate anybody with that attitude. But I don't condamn those who can't resist the temptation, like me. Legend say that the alpha will give me a wrong and incomplete impression of the full game and will spoil the surprise for me. Well, that's MY problem then and I can assure them: I can handle that.
 

Prophetus

Old Fart
Dec 4, 1999
3,099
7
38
55
...standing behind you...
Errrm ... the built that was leaked was not a built made for testing. It doesn't look like it was one of their testers who has leaked it. It looks more like somebody forgot that E3 presentation built on some harddrive or forgot to delete a mirror backup ghost. Maybe even during E3

Tetris, the build was being tested, as with any alpha and beta. My point was, that even if none of the testers released the pre-alpha, they are suspects. Testers get treated badly (generally speaking), the last thing they need is the stress of being suspected of stealing.

*NOTE: Below is a rant. I use the pronoun "You" alot. This is not directed at any particular person. Instead, it's used in the plural sense*

I don't hate or dislike anyone who downloaded the stolen product. On a personal level, this is more about your morals and beliefs.

On a moral level, Legend doesn't have to prove they were damaged by the mass distribution of the stolen product. The fact remains, they entrusted someone with access to the pre-alpha and it was released to the public. A day after the release, people knew it was a stolen product, yet continued to download the pre-alpha.

No matter how anyone tries to justify it, they contributed to a thief's subconcious desire to receive "Cool Points". As a by-product, Legend's, nay, every developer's opinion about the fans deminished. Yes, they will still make games, but this time...strictly for profit.

Gamers are constantly crying about CD Keys, bad copy protection schemes and so on and so on. Well, it's this exact situation that forces developers to use such protection. Everyone biatchs and moans when they do use it, but turn around and download pirated copies or stolen alphas. Don't even try to say "We download pirated copies because games cost so much" or "we wouldn't have to download pirated copies if the copy protection was stable", because that is sooo weak. You receive demos at the proper time. Save your money if you really like the game. Game companies have to raise prices or use funky protection because somewhere in the past, people ripped them off.

Now, we have Epic, Digital Extremes, ID, Legend and many more who actually communicate with their fans and even release "No-CD patches". How does the loving and grateful fans repay them? By participating in the distrubution of stolen property. Yes, even if you only downloaded it for personal pleasure, you contributed. Check the law. If you knowingly purchase or accept stolen property, you are just as guilty.

Legally, Legend can sue the people involved with the illegal distribution of the pre-alpha. Hell, if they really wanted to push the envelope, they can sue everyone who downloaded the stolen alpha (not that they will, but they legally can and would win).

Legend doesn't have to prove monetary loss. All they have to do is prove their intellectual property was stolen and illegally distributed. LeonTheProfi, you fail to realize that winning a lawsuit does not revolve around "How much money was lost". Any present or future damages received by this illegal distribution of the pre-alpha can be used in court to prove their case.

Here is something for you "Fans" to think about. One day after the official release of Unreal Tournament, a crack was made. Now, pirates have the Unreal 2 code and are cracking away. If you see cheats, new aimbots, cracks, or other malicious activities, you can thank those who stolen the pre-alpha. Don't be surprised if Unreal 2's current release date is scrapped.

Again, I'm not upset at anyone here. Instead, some of us are "extremely" pissed at the moralization of this situation. There isn't one person here, who has any honor, that wouldn't be upset if someone took their hard work and released it prematurely.

If any of you map, mod, code, draw, or make any product (full or partial) then you would be just as upset. If you wrote a story and gave it to me to proof-read and I released it to the public, you would be pissed. If you made a mod or map, showed it to me and I took it and released it, you would be pissed. Yet, because this pre-alpha was not any of your hard work, you think it's ok. If you actually think it's ok, then you never made anything worth having.

We are upset about the hypocrisy and selfish attitudes in the Unreal community. The short sightedness of some people ruin the future for the rest of us. So you downloaded and played the game, fine. But don't come in here and expect us to understand your heartfelt desire to see the game. The plain and simple truth of the matter is, you wanted to play the game. You didn't care about the circumstances involved. You cover your eyes to the fact pirates and hackers will rip that code apart. It really doesn't matter if YOU aren't distributing the pre-alpha, ripping the code, or creating malicious logic, you participated in the crime of stealing someone's personal property.

I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty. All I'm saying is that we need to respect other people's work. If you don't want people stealing your stuff, then don't steal from them. Stealing is stealing. The object of desire may be look or function differently, but if it's not yours, by purchase or bonifide release, then you have no right to have it.
 

Tetris L

Smartass
Feb 15, 2000
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Proph:

Point taken. I agree with some of what your wrote. But one thing is not fair: To treat this case like normal warez. I know lots of people who have downloaded this thing who would normally never warez a game and I'm sure all of these will gladly pay the full price for the full game once it's out. That's opposed to other people I know who rarely ever buy a game and rather "borrow it from friends". It's strange, most of these seem to be not interested in this leak.

One more thing: Games being leaked is nothing new. This has always happened. UT was leaked. Q3 was leaked. Many other games were leaked. The only thing about the U2 leak is that is seems to spread a lot faster. I blame that mostly on the fact that a lot more people have broadband today, together with the fact that Infogrames was so tight-lipped about the game before, so that everybody was desperately itching for info.
 

Prophetus

Old Fart
Dec 4, 1999
3,099
7
38
55
...standing behind you...
Originally posted by -The-Tetris-L-
...The only thing about the U2 leak is that is seems to spread a lot faster. I blame that mostly on the fact that a lot more people have broadband today, together with the fact that Infogrames was so tight-lipped about the game before, so that everybody was desperately itching for info.

I agree with that. Everyone has been begging for more info, but the media blackout to online news sites prevented total coverage. That wasn't Legend or Epic's decision. Infogrames contolled Legend's media exposure. Infogrames has their reasons, they were bitten in the butt a few times before too.:)
 
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LeonTheProfi

Guest
Everyone who has trouble to run the Alpha should contact me or goto my (german !!) homepage.

Cy@

Leon
 

Delacroix

Successor of Almarion
Jan 12, 2006
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Warsaw, PL
It's been a few years and I still have it. I fell in love with Aida so I bought the final version just for her... I know: everyone downloading alpha/beta leaks is considered a thief - but I don't give a sh*t. I still take a walk on the E3 levels from time to time. Now, why this is thievery:

- it was NEW technology back then - Unreal Warfare was a secret of Epic & Legend
- it included a 90& complete texture set for the game

Because of these two reasons both companies went furious. Lots of people had a chance to steal parts of the technology & graphics - we'll never find out if anyone did. That's why beta leaks are illegal.

As for the compatibility question - the alpha and the editor run bad in Win98/ME systems. Stick to 2000 and XP - UnrealEd.exe and Unreal.exe had a leftover bug from certain Ued2.0 builds - a problem with Win9xME systems.
 

Delacroix

Successor of Almarion
Jan 12, 2006
811
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Warsaw, PL
[me arises from the grave as zombie chicken]
Brrraaaainnnnsssss... brrrraaaaiinnnnsss....

[me walks up to GotBeer?]
[me takes a bite of GotBeer?'s brain]

cough, cough... blurrrgh... yuck! Bad brain! Bad, bad, bad brain!
 

Delacroix

Successor of Almarion
Jan 12, 2006
811
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Warsaw, PL
Yes. Very early. Got leaked in - if I remember correctly - may or june 2001. Specifications:

Version: 697
Maps: 10
Weapons: 60%, some did not have alt-fire
AI: nearly null, except for the E3Hall_New2 & Eden_E3 maps.
Music: none
Textures: nearly 90% done, less detailed than the final product (surprised?!)
Trivia:

- doesn't work properly on Win9X/ME
- contains Unreal Editor version 2.6
- contains parts of XBOX code later to be found in Unreal Championship
- you can see the Skaarj model on Skaarj_Duck.un2.
- 1150 MB unpacked - packed size depends on archive format and properties. ranges from 425-600 MB packed.
- E3 demo version shown behind locked doors - none besides the Epic & Legend staff ever touched the mouse, some guys from selected computer mags saw the demo in it's full feature.

In terms of assets & quality, this release is a tech demo for Unreal Engine 2, just as the Unreal 1995 demo was the tech demo for Unreal Engine 1. It disappeared from the net and p2p soon after the release of the retail version of the game. I still have it, though.
 

Delacroix

Successor of Almarion
Jan 12, 2006
811
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Warsaw, PL
And why does that make a difference to you? If i believe I have some valuable information to share in a thread, I'll post it even if the thread is 5 years old. And IF you don't like it, I believe you can skip reading this thread, and read the next one. Period.