Cooking off the grenade

[Psychomorph]

AA:O has is, many want it for INF, Rainbow Six: Lockdown and so on.
I've speak to people on the RS forums (with training and experience) and looked some other sources and all say, the nade is never getting cooked off. The time before detonation never is exact 4 seconds (more 3-5 seconds) and it's to risky to draw the pin and wait few seconds.

So whats the case in RL? If cooking off is not done in RL I don't want to have this feature in INF, even if it is 'physically possible', it will be abused in the game anyway, so better not beeing able to do it at all.

What do you think? What do you (experienced people) know?

 

[OICW]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-23-30/ch3.htm

Cooking off grenades isn't practiced in training, but it is used for allowing over-head bursts for bunkers and other sheltered positions.

 

[geogob]

I wouldn't want to cook a grenade. That could leave a mess in my kitchen.

 

[ravens_hawk]

Cooking grenades is in INF already (Alt fire.) It's not abused as far as I can tell.
And even though it may not be taught (or even advised against) chances are it is praticed fairly often. As I understand this isn't something "no trained solder would ever do" (to paraphrase.)

 

[Psychomorph]

In INF you throw(roll) with fire. Holding the firekey, then holding the altfire key and then release both will throw it further. Alt fire throws it further, but the pin is pulled so it explodes even in your hands affter 3-4 seconds.

Thats ok, but you still can't pull the pin when you want to roll it. It works only when you throw it further with altfire.
The time till detonation should be randomly different, since in RL it seems to be not exactly always pin point 4 seconds.

 

[cracwhore]

Um...

You use your 'fire mode select' button and set the grenades to 'high' or 'low'. Now, you can roll them into a door frame, or throw them like a baseball (although, still not as far as you probably could in real life).

 

[(un)l33t_1]

I read that the U.S. Army and most other NATO militaries (with the notable exception of the US Marine Corps) discourage "cooking off" as in real life, a fuse is unreliable and can vary from 2 to 5 seconds

 

[Psychomorph]

Exactly, it is unsave and should be that way in the game aswell.

 

[keihaswarrior]

In the game, if the fuse was more random people wouldn't cook off the nades as much. Right now, with Duke's nades the fuse is between 4-5 sec.

I suppose it would be more realistic to make it like the manual says and make the fuses 3-5 sec. But that isn't a big difference, although it would cut down a little on cooking off the nades.

Getting rid of cooking off altogether? Bad idea IMO.

Edit: The link OICW posted says the nade fuse is 4-5 sec IRL, just like INF currently. Therefore, I don't think a change to the fuse time is necessary.

 

[Psychomorph]

Thats what I speak about keihas and I agree with you about leaving out 'cooking off'.

 

[keihaswarrior]

Acutally, when I read the link posted by OICW, it says the fuse is 4-5 sec just like the current Duke nades.

Therefore, I don't see any reason to change an aspect of grenades in INF because of cooking off. They are good as-is.

The two changes I would like to see are:
1) Alt-fire only releases the spoon, not the grenade. Alt-fire CAN be pressed while the primary fire is held down.
2) The fire modes should allow you to roll the nade underhanded and also side arm throwing around corners and doorways.

 

[Beppo]

you can do all this in INF already, so what is the problem??

you have three fire modes, manual (standard), high and low
- manual: the longer you press and hold one of the fire buttons determines if you throw it under- or overhand
- high: you always throw it overhand
- low: you always throw/roll it underhand

the two fire buttons determine if you cook it off before releasing it or not...
- fire: do not cook it off. the spoon will be released at the time you throw it and so starts the fuse timer...
- altfire: cook it off. the internal 3-5 secs fuse starts 'running' directly...

So, what is not possible besides the 'throw around corners' stuff keihas is asking for?

[edit]Oh and cooking off a grenade is done out there and not only in hollywood movies even with it not being the 'standard' way you learn in the military. You do not practice this kind of thing with live nades just cause the risk of hurting or killing somebody within training is way too high. But this doesn't mean that you cannot do it and that noone tells you how to do it. In theory 'field' lessons you actually get such infos and I actually trained it with training grenades on a house cleaning 'mission' training while I was in the military. It is one of the few ways to prevent you from getting killed by your own nade that is thrown back to you. And it is one way to clear larger areas or trenches by timing it so that it explodes in the air instead of ie. inside the trench.[/edit]

 

[Logan6]

Well, there is one more mode I would like. It should be able to be done by a short click of the button in low mode but I can never get it to work. I would like to be able to drop the grenade with about a one foot toss ( for dropping in windows or down faces of walls, etc). Call it Very Low. For getting around corners, couldn't you just lean?

 

[Beppo]

Well, switch to 'low' mode, and press and hold the fire button. At the time you want to drop it thru a window or down a face of a wall, just release it while looking down for example. Or?

 

[geogob]

with the INFMOD_Nades I could change the M67 so that when you and press and hold fire you get ready to throw and then, in that state, you press alt-fire you release the spoon without throwing the grenade.

Is that what you want?

i.e.

fire and hold: get ready to throw - release : throw
alt-fire and hold: get ready with spoon released - release: throw - hold too long: boom
fire and hold: get ready throw - press alt-fire: release spoon - release fire: throw - hold too long: boom.

 

[Psychomorph]

you can do all this in INF already, so what is the problem??

They is no problem, just after hearing some idiots at the rainbow six forums, that meant cooking off the nade is NEVER done, I was confused and searched enlightment on the INF forums.
I thought if it is never really done, that shouldn't be ingame.

And you mean it is done, but when the fuse time is about 3,4-5 sec. how long at most you would hold a 'hot' nade at most before you throw?

I´m not sure how it is in INF now, but the fuse time should be made realsitic, namely 3-5 sec. Even if they are only 4-5 sec. 1 sec. is a long time in combat. But anyway, in AA:O when I cook off the nade, i count till 3-4 but that arent even 3 seconds at all.


Wouldn't it be better, if you would pull the pin of the nade with the firekey. With alt fire you adjust throwing the nade LOW or HIGH (standartly high), and ROF selector would cook off the nade.
Wouldn't it be better and more simple?

 

[(SDS)benmcl]

Frankly I do not agree stopping something in game because no one does it. If it can be done then is should be allowed on that basis. If an some one can pull the pin in real life, hold for a bit then toss then they should be allowed in game no matter if someone says it is not taught or never done. This pretty well deals with everything else.

 

[Keganator]

with the INFMOD_Nades I could change the M67 so that when you and press and hold fire you get ready to throw and then, in that state, you press alt-fire you release the spoon without throwing the grenade.

Is that what you want?

i.e.

fire and hold: get ready to throw - release : throw
alt-fire and hold: get ready with spoon released - release: throw - hold too long: boom
fire and hold: get ready throw - press alt-fire: release spoon - release fire: throw - hold too long: boom.

Nooo! It's fine!!!

 

[keihaswarrior]

with the INFMOD_Nades I could change the M67 so that when you and press and hold fire you get ready to throw and then, in that state, you press alt-fire you release the spoon without throwing the grenade.

Is that what you want?

i.e.

fire and hold: get ready to throw - release : throw
alt-fire and hold: get ready with spoon released - release: throw - hold too long: boom
fire and hold: get ready throw - press alt-fire: release spoon - release fire: throw - hold too long: boom.

Yes, then we wouldn't require the fire modes to enable any type of throw/cooking combination.

The fire modes could be used for throwing around corners instead. Fire modes would be Left and Right. Right throws it the normal distance but it originates from outside your cylinder to the right and flys in the direction you face.
Left fire mode would be a weak throw, since it is akward to cross your body.

I wouldn't change the nades around unless you can add sidearm throws.

 

[Kitty.cat]

Wouldn't it be better, if you would pull the pin of the nade with the firekey. With alt fire you adjust throwing the nade LOW or HIGH (standartly high), and ROF selector would cook off the nade.
Wouldn't it be better and more simple?

Ewww no. That'd be annoyingly complicated.

Also, I like the "high/low" setter because I can really quickly lob off a long-range one without having to hold down the fire key that way. Which is VERY nice (and more realistic.)