Concussion jumping...

[PhatAzz]

A couple of comments about what's changed,

1) Distance - definitely a lot less.

2) Speed - definitely a lot less.

3) Damage - always 15 health no matter how you do it,

4) Blindness - lasts for 3-4 seconds when you land.

5) Use in game - none.

I think that there needs to be a working algorithm for the cj damage that is different according to the trajectory that you take off. A lot of times in u2xmp, if you did it right on a FLAT surface, you would loose about 3 health health and about 15 shield - that's the best and I get that often. To do this, sprint, double tap forward (dodge forward), aim down and alt fire (3), boost jump in mid jump or so. This trajectory was as close to being parallel to the ground as you could be.

Dodge forward without sprint would give you higher jump, shorter distance with 10 health and about 20 shield loss.

Sprint with it, 15 health damage, even higher jump, and shorter distance with about 35 health loss.

Walk with it, 20 health, 50 shield.

In it's current incarnation, concussion jumping really has no role in the game. If this is what FMI wanted to do, then that's fine - but it really has absolutely no role. I would never use it although I COULD use it.

I've raced a ranger with cj across lowlands, and couldn't catch up he reached the node as I was coming up to the base off the midfield.

I think the speed and distance need to be increased very slightly maybe 5 to 10% with damage algorithm as above - if it is to be used in game play anyhow. Otherwise, it's fine for sh!ts and giggles for now.

 

[Zaknafein]

U2XMP had conc jumping. UTXMP does not have anything I would consider the same thing.

In U2XMP you would sacrifice shield, life, and ammo for a short boost of incredible speed. It was what I considered balanced because the gunner is basically giving up the advantage the class was given (armor) for a temp relaxing of the penalty that they pay for that advantage (mobility).

In UTXMP its all lose-lose ... plus its a server side option that is defaulted to off ... giving server admins the impression that its a cheat/exploit instead an integral part of the xmp experience.

Of course, this is just my opinion ... I could be wrong. Not likely though.

 

[Gumby]

U2XMP had conc jumping. UTXMP does not have anything I would consider the same thing.

In U2XMP you would sacrifice shield, life, and ammo for a short boost of incredible speed. It was what I considered balanced because the gunner is basically giving up the advantage the class was given (armor) for a temp relaxing of the penalty that they pay for that advantage (mobility).

In UTXMP its all lose-lose ... plus its a server side option that is defaulted to off ... giving server admins the impression that its a cheat/exploit instead an integral part of the xmp experience.

Of course, this is just my opinion ... I could be wrong. Not likely though.

Well said

 

[Skipr]

I agree. The first time I tried c.j in UTXMP I was like um....this wont work

 

[FurociousFa]

zaknafein, are you not a utxmp beta-tester, as is PRG thought you guys would've made sure a feature like that worked before its prerelease, but how is it all lose-lose if gunners are currently the dominating class..?

 

[PhatAzz]

zaknafein, are you not a utxmp beta-tester, as is PRG thought you guys would've made sure a feature like that worked before its prerelease, but how is it all lose-lose if gunners are currently the dominating class..?

Well, ranger will be dominating after this next patch...

Headshots - implemented
Crosshairs - custom (fixed)
Sniping range - increased
Pistol firing rate - increased (however shorter distance)

Gunners - alt rocket - 0.15 second delay

With the nerfed movement for EVERYONE, the ranger has the most to gain as sniping will be extremely easy to do during the "pause". (please read my post earlier in this thread about this pause and why I think rangers have the most to gain)

Although, ranger may not be able to move like it did back in u2xmp, it still will be a dominating force. Comparably speaking, once the primary grenade is nerfed, the gunner will more or less be in it's previous position although jumping is better than before and overall movement (it still has the same pause).

The only thing left is to tweak tech a bit perhaps, but again once the headshot is implemented and we get to see what Shotgun and AR spread damage calculated in spherical coordinates does to the class, we can't really comment on balance.

I only bring up the conc jumping issue because FMI obviously coded some of it into the game, and I think it's like a lot of other things...close to what it should be, but needs tweaking.

The blindness lasting so long after landing also kinda makes it useless to conc jump, other than for movement. If you were going to chase someone down, you couldn't with the blindness because you couldn't follow a target and by the time it cleared, they could be long gone in a different direction.

I think the gunner itself when conc jumping should be blind until it touched the ground at which time, vision should be restored. This would be a compromise because the gunner would not be able to tell when to boost for distance in the conc jump, nor change trajectory midair, but be able to fight if need be once he lands - instead of running around blind and getting sniped or alt shottied at point blank range.

The theory is anyhow, that the conj grenade is actually discharged under the gunner and slightly behind him, so blindness shouldn't last as long as it would for someone normally.

 

[dutch_gecko]

I think the gunner itself when conc jumping should be blind until it touched the ground at which time, vision should be restored. This would be a compromise because the gunner would not be able to tell when to boost for distance in the conc jump, nor change trajectory midair, but be able to fight if need be once he lands - instead of running around blind and getting sniped or alt shottied at point blank range.

The theory is anyhow, that the conj grenade is actually discharged under the gunner and slightly behind him, so blindness shouldn't last as long as it would for someone normally.

In U2XMP (haven't played utxmp, so can't speak for it) I use a timed nade and fire it slightly ahead. Then I run up to it, and time myself to dodge just over it as it goes off, and boost straight after it goes off. This means that the nade is guaranteed to go off behind me, and so I don't get blinded (I never use toggle behindview). Of course, if my timing is wrong then I'm stuffed Like I said, I don't know how things are working out in utxmp, but you could just adopt this method.

 

[PhatAzz]

I use a timed nade and fire it slightly ahead. Then I run up to it, and time myself to dodge just over it as it goes off, and boost straight after it goes off. This means that the nade is guaranteed to go off behind me... but you could just adopt this method.

You actually do this in a game? Or when you're screwing around? I'm talking about practical application, not some circus act crap that goes on when there's 3 people on the server.

 

[PRG]

You actually do this in a game? Or when you're screwing around? I'm talking about practical application, not some circus act crap that goes on when there's 3 people on the server.

*raises hand*

I can! (and have for a very long time)

 

[Skipr]

Actually Phat, you know that the headshots will help us gunners a lot too. Sure, the rangers might have better shot power now..but so do we. And us usual gunners know how to land headshots a lot

I am all for making the gunners a rare breed again...im sick of seeing a lot of them on servers :-\

 

[PhatAzz]

*raises hand*

I can! (and have for a very long time)

I stand corrected. I haven't seen anyone use this method competitively yet, but if the omnipotent PRG says he and hopper use it, I will stand down.

 

[Skipr]

Oh omnipotent PRG, share your vast knowledge of how to do it efficiently with us little gunners so one day we will be as smart and powerful as you!

 

[PRG]

I actually dump a timed a nade on the ground. run just in front of it and dodge forward right when it goes off. Then you can boost later to control and extend your jump. The best is dumping a incendiary nade right on top of the person you're chasing as you fly over their head.

 

[SwiftPaladin]

I need to try if it works for ranger, too. Gunner + Ranger in offense = pwnt.

 

[Zaknafein]

zaknafein, are you not a utxmp beta-tester, as is PRG thought you guys would've made sure a feature like that worked before its prerelease, but how is it all lose-lose if gunners are currently the dominating class..?

We are beta tests, not developers. We report and give our opinions, but that doesn't mean that anyone has to listen to them. I gave my opinion on this often enough.

The gunner is just the least un-fixed class at the moment, not the most overpowered. This doesn't mean that there isn't more fixing to be done, or that the current hierarchy of 'domination' will prevail after final release.

I am not suggesting that other classes do not need fixing, or in what order of priority the fixes should be. I am only reporting what I see in comparison to u2xmp from the perspective of the class I played most.

 

[T-Shinzon]

For some reason the timed conc grenade doesn't bounce for me when shooting straight down, as well. Conc jumping needs to be on! Without getting too technical, it basically balanced XMP further! Also, using behindview helped conc-jumping maneuverability greatly since in U2 XMP when I tried the method PRG uses, I find it less practical since the grenade goes bouncing off everywhere. With behindview, I can basically conc-jump from any position giving it more utility. I believe behindview should be always allowed and conc jumping as well, or at least defaulted "on."

 

[dutch_gecko]

You actually do this in a game? Or when you're screwing around? I'm talking about practical application, not some circus act crap that goes on when there's 3 people on the server.

I actually do that in-game. Not good for chasing the arti carrier, but good for getting places.

Also, using behindview helped conc-jumping maneuverability greatly since in U2 XMP when I tried the method PRG uses, I find it less practical since the grenade goes bouncing off everywhere. With behindview, I can basically conc-jump from any position giving it more utility. I believe behindview should be always allowed and conc jumping as well, or at least defaulted "on."

Behindview was an exploit, to avoid the blinding. If you want to conc jump, you have to get blinded (unless it goes off behind you).

 

[.pot.OptimusPrime]

Actually Phat, you know that the headshots will help us gunners a lot too. Sure, the rangers might have better shot power now..but so do we. And us usual gunners know how to land headshots a lot

I am all for making the gunners a rare breed again...im sick of seeing a lot of them on servers :-\

Wheee. Definitely the best idea of the year. This would certainly fix the game balance. Let´s just remove the tech and gunner class coz they are so nub and stupid and blah. Snipers are no.1 and there´s no room for other classes unless they are total cannon fodder that are no risk for rangers.

 

[Gumby]

I thought all other classes were cannon fodder to a ranger

 

[.pot.OptimusPrime]

I thought all other classes were cannon fodder to a ranger

Errr. That´s pretty much what I meant. Puritan snipers should have their own servers that don´t allow noob players using tech or gunner enter. Only the skill demanding sniping from 1 km and no splash damages or shotty alt-fires. That would really rock! Or if you want to allow techies and gunners to enter, at least remove all of their weapons that are imba and don´t require any skill.