cloning

[Rukee]

Originally posted by GMotha
Human cells?
A full embryo...

They said they didn`t let it get to that stage so there was no right to life case.......so they say.
I think it`s wrong to clone humans.... I DO understand however how much could be acomplished with the technoligy....being able to grow an organ without a donnor and no chance of the orgin being rejected because it was made from cells from the patient. That would be cool......

 

[JTRipper]

Tuesday is Soylent Green day!

 

[Fuct]

Let me ask you people a question.

When you clone yourself and have sex with yourself, is it masturbation or hot gay sex?

 

[GoAt]

rofl, that realy gives terms to the word "Go fuck your self."

 

[Cactus]

cloning a whole human being is just wrong. harvesting body parts and cloning just body parts, that's debatable in science, but the cloning of a whole human being, especially doing so just for the sake of doing so, or jsut for the sake of saying "ha! i did it!" is incredibly selfish and wrong.

i think a clone would have the same rights and priviledges as the original human being, since he is capable of the same expiriences and emotions, and it's an incredibly act of selfishness that brought him into the world, he didn't ask for it, and to do it and toss him aside saying that he was the product of science or worse, to use him for spare parts is unethical. i mean if you can clone someone, it takes away their individuality. uniqueness is sacred.

plus i don't like having an evil twin.

 

[oosyxxx]

Eh, why bother ...

 

[lucifix]

Originally posted by Cactus
i don't like having an evil twin.

I AM the evil twin!

 

[Claw]

Originally posted by GoAt
(...) so i laugh my ass off when these people trying to ban abortions are supporting large families, but hate war and population control.

So, if I want to ban abortions and support large families, I should be in favour of war and population control?
Not entirely logical. For once, abortions are a way of population control, no contradiction in banning abortions and being against population control.
And how does favouring large families contradict hating war? Weird man.

Look, I can see your point. But it's inhuman. When I want a large familiy, I really don't want to see my relatives, my kids even, die in war.
And when I am against population control I don't favour abortions naturally.

So you, see, it may be unreasonable, but it's not a contradiction.
I do favour abortion btw, see this right. But those young sluts should at least pay for it themselves if there is no special reason like rape, health risks or social problems. I mean, some girls between 20 and 30 have had 3+ abortions, that isn't normal. The pill doesn't fail that often. And there be condoms. They are just sluts, and the health insurance companies need the money to pay medicaments and operations for really sick people.

But back to the topic. We don't have over-population in Germany. The german race is rather threatened by extinction, actually.
So, as I recaall saying before, population control isn't the matter in Germany.


And a good use for cloning you didn't seem to care about is partial cloning, creation of new organs, maybe whole limbs. Not to forget skin.
What I'd really like is a way of transferring my mind or maybe the whole brain to a clone. That way I could live virtually forever. A few hundred years and maybe humans manage to become a bit more rational and sophisticated.
Maybe less ish at least.

 

[Claw]

Originally posted by Balton.de
ok, but now serious. cloning is a dumb idea. what will they use it for?
cloning an army, cloning employes who are cheap and VERY educated/smart.
they'll use them as walking organ spender...

you can handle this with your morals? I dont want to do this. and thena we would have ubermenschen and untermenschen... we had this already 60 years ago in germany. it will end in "euthanasy" (sp?) and later than a worl war... or slavery... : /
andwhat if our cloned brothers think that they are much better

Hey. Know Missionforce: Cyberstorm?

 

[Balton]

Originally posted by Claw


Hey. Know Missionforce: Cyberstorm?

well, I've seen screenshots of it. but i never played it.
anyway... that as far as i can remember isnt what i thought of...

I more had like ultra splatter fights and much sickness in mind... like you... well a bloody game!

 

[Sven_ya!]

Originally posted by Balton.de
ok, but now serious. cloning is a dumb idea. what will they use it for?
cloning an army, cloning employes who are cheap and VERY educated/smart.
they'll use them as walking organ spender...

you can handle this with your morals? I dont want to do this. and thena we would have ubermenschen and untermenschen... we had this already 60 years ago in germany. it will end in "euthanasy" (sp?) and later than a worl war... or slavery... : /
andwhat if our cloned brothers think that they are much better than the still born humans? when thy think THEY have to rule US???

I've said this once before and it seems to have been totally forgotten:

ahem...

CLONING HUMANS AND MANUFACTURING AN ARMY OF CLONES ARE NOT THE SAME THING!!!!!!!!

You're talking about two different types of technologies here. Currently, cloning means you fertilize an egg with a sperm cell that has cloned DNA same as the egg. A real, live woman carries the baby to term and it's born just like anybody else with the exception that it's DNA is the exact same as someone else. Ooh, I'm so scared.

The other thing, manufacture of people, seems to suggest building a fully-grown human being from scratch. You know, like in the Fifth Element? So far, I've not heard any news of such technology and I defy anyone to honestly say this type of this is at all possible yet.

Another point I've made before about this manufacturing of people thing: will it speak? Will it know how to eat, walk and run? Much of that stuff is learned as a person grows from an infant to an adult. If you were able to fabricate a human being out of raw materials, you'd need to fill its brain with some basic information it missed out on in the formative years. Currently, that could take some time and you might be better off just growing your army the old fashioned way. To speed the process up, you'd have to probably develop some way to implant such knowledge into the brains of these people so they wouldn't just lie on the floor drooling all over themselves.

Everybody's so afraid of what cloning could mean or how people could use it for nefarious purposes. I say chill, the reality is pretty banal and bornig, not some B-movie plot with mad scientists out to produce azn love slaves and clone armies.

 

[Sven_ya!]

Here's another thing to think about (maybe this will flush Grimm out of hiding. She's so dreeeeamy! ... yet I digress ...)

The cultural/legal/political aspect of cloning. In Isaac Asimov's Foundation and Earth, he wrote about a planet completely populated by hermaphrodites. Each lived completely by itself on a huge plantation run by robots and each procreated with itself. It's both male and female, so it impregnates itself and carries a clone of itself to term.

What if this became reality? What if a political group decided that hermaphrodites or transsexuals or anyone else with a non standard XY or XX chromosome loadout deserves their own gender classification legally? (That is to say, unless such a group already exists and I've simply never heard of it ... wouldn't surprise me) They could demand the right to procreation without the involvement of a 2nd person, which is basically cloning.

In this case, what would you think about cloning? Is cloning wrong, or is it simply a new way for an up-and-coming gender to perpetuate itself?

C'mon, Grimm. Speak up! =)

 

[ingear]

Hmmm, well the bible doesn't say you can't clone people. I think people have the idea creating people is an anct reserved for god. That it is tampering with power we should not have. Not, my view by the way.

Down falls of cloning. Genes change all the time do to radiation bombardment and are called mutation usualy this occures through out time. However if you were to only clone from a STABLE no changing gene type then it would eliminate the natural evolution of the being.

Cloning from each sucessive generation of Gene types would produce greater and larger variation in the form. There by creating either different or unstable species that were not created do to enviromental effects. Ageoraph survives because it was able to reach the upper vegitation of trees. This gave it a place to survive do to food supply. However creating clones could actualy have skipped or eliminated the possiblilty of the elongated neck.

You may also create a bring suseptable to disease more readily.

Cloning would also eliminate gene growth. The more complex the orginizm is the larger the gene suit is. In other words more data for more info and ability. So lets say you clone and you eliminate the growth. We may eventualy evolved to being immune to lets say Aids/hiv.

Also once it is alive it is a complete and living being what about it's civil rights. It should be allowed the same rights as you. So now you have to wait and ask it will you give me your heart so I can live.
It's better to just clone parts.

 

[Sven_ya!]

The whole basis of fears about cloning to me stem from an incorrect view of humanity's relation to nature, specifically that wea are somehow above nature. I don't subscribe to that view as it's an antiquated one heavily influenced by western religion. There's God, then humanity, then corrupt, chaotic nature. What a bunch of bullsh!t (that's bullocks to you Brits).

Well, believe it or not, we're nothing more than a part of nature. Our technology, just as it's a part of us, is another part of nature. We are neither exempt from the process of nor somehow able to expertly steer evolution. Evolution needn't necessarily be simple survival of the fittest and letting random chance determine whether an animal will develop a long neck or not.

Humans have evolved to incorporate technology. Now we are using that technology to manipulate our genes. Who's to say this coherant manipulation of genetic code isn't simply a form of evolution we've not yet witnessed? Yes, there are potential drawbacks to genetic engineering and cloning, but that's no different than any other genetic changes animals have been making on this planet for two billion years. The only difference is the genetic manipulation is done consciously and specifically, although depending on the scientist you ask and his or her spiritual background, you may hear arguments that this is also not new. Also, how different is it to manipulate genetic code directly or to do simple controlled breeding, a process that's been going on through all of human history?

Ask yourself this: if we use genetic engineering to save mankind from extinction due to a plague or other biological or genetic threat, are we cheating the evolutionary process by not letting ourselves die like good sports ... or is it simply survival of the fittest?

 

[Sven_ya!]

*bump*

don't want Grimm to miss out on this one

 

[Rukee]

Originally posted by Sven_ya!
*bump*

don't want Grimm to miss out on this one

Ya but Grimm wants to miss out on you!!

 

[lucifix]

you answered it

... or is it simply survival of the fittest?


i do see one problem with it. when the ol reaper uh comes reaping do our souls actually go to heaven/hell? and if they do, what if the whole human race has to be wiped out before god can do whatever it is he has planned? maybe the dead will lay in limbo until humans are extinct?

 

[Rukee]

Cathlics call that purgatory.

 

[AMmayhem]

Why clone more people when you can just have more sex?