Can we do away with the SCREAMING Please??????????????

[Omega]

I don't know about you guys, but I absolutely hate UT's screaming.. especially the female screaming. I do not find it enhances the fragging experience, and almost every other game does away with it.

Here are my reasons:
1) I cannot turn my volume up to hear the gunz, coz I hear those stupid bloody screams that are twice as loud as the gun sounds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2) I don't want to hear people scream, let alone female screams when I frag.. a little too disturbing and unnecessary.
3) It is unrealistic. People just do not scream when they die, unless they die slowly. The stupid thing about UT is that they don't scream when they get shot, only when they die, which is the completely opposite of what really happens.
4) It's too frequent!! In a frag-fest, the screams are everywhere!!! Helloooo??? I want to hear GUNS and EXPLOSIONS not stupid screams!!! We are playing soldiers not Friday the 13th!!!!!

Does anyone else out there agree with me?? I really hope with all my heart that the Infiltration team agrees with me, because I'd love to turn up the volume and appreciate all their hard work in getting the really good sounds - GUNS!!!!!!

begging for gunz,
AJY

Don't frag me, love me.

 

[Gryphon]

I hear the guns fine when I fire. Sometimes if you have hardware sound enabled it will distort the sounds so you cannot hear them well. If you have it enabled, try shutting it off.

As for the screams themselves, they will remain. Let me shoot you a few times with a 9mm, we'll see how silent you stay. /infopop/emoticons\icon_wink.gif

Gryphon
Technical Advisor
i n f i l t r a t i o n
http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration

Read the Roadmap and the FAQ.
Get the latest scoop on Inf munitions here.

 

[Omega]

Yeah BUT....

Thx Gryphon for taking the time to reply, but the real problem is that the screams are too loud. Regardless of whether the screams are realistic or not (and I still don't think people scream when they die, only when they're hurt and ALIVE) - they are simply TOO LOUD. You cannot deny that the screams are louder than the guns, and that is just plain stupid.

If you watch say Saving Private Ryan, the guns are hubbada hubbada DEAFENING, and that is the kind of effect I am talking about. The problem is, that in a frag fest, I do NOT hear deafening guns, and we all know what I'm talking about - we all hear deafening screams.. it is really silly. It's like a bloodbath horror film. Do you remember ANYBODY screaming like they do in UT, in Saving Private Ryan??? I assure you it NEVER happened!! Just recall the opening sequence when they got mowed down, they just died too quickly to register any pain. When Hank's men got shot, they never screamed!! They may have groaned while they held their wound for a while, but when they actually died, it was silent. They certainly did NOT scream.

If you must have screams, can the volume be greatly reduced to realistic levels, or the option to remove them be available. I (and I'm sure others too) would be eternally grateful!!!. I am positive you guys are putting a lot of effort into the gun sounds, and I dearly want to appreciate them, and I simply CANNOT when there is all this stupid screaming. (Have you seen just ONE movie where there was all this screaming in a gun fight??????)

PLEASE LET US HEAR GUNZ! PLEASE!!!!
AJY

Don't frag me, love me.

 

[Nightpaw]

In my opinion, this is a matter of your personal taste. I for myself never felt offended by the screaming and I dont think its overdone. I like the mixture of "DAKKADAKKA-BOOOM-AAAAAARGH-DAKKADAKKA" UT offers. Sure, options for adding or removing all kinds of stuff which might offend someone would be great, but it also would delay the release of the long awaited new versions of Inf (lechz, sabber, geifer).
____________________________________________________________

"He jests at scars, that never felt a wound."

 

[Omega]

But don't you find it really irritating???

Infiltration is supposed to be realistic right? I just don't ever see lot's of screaming in any movies. Even if people do like the screaming, does it have to be so LOUD and FREQUENT (ie. every single time). Don't you at the very LEAST think the guns should be louder??

I just think screaming is so irritating. I hate the sound in real-life, and I hate it in a game. Why do people like to listen to screams? Isn't the very nature of screams supposed to elicit a shocked response, and supposed to be unpleasant? I feel like I'm Ted Bundy or some serial killer, rather than a soldier.

Okay, Infiltration team (after all, it's you guys I am trying to persuade), not convinced??? Imagine this: You have just downloaded some absolutely great models of Arnold Schwarzenegger in a great 'Commando' skin, you added the model to a bot, and just frag him, and he screams! Urggghhh! Doesn't that just destroy all his dignity? I'd like to see him get fragged with respect, and just slump over - ie. consistent with his character on the big screen. I have this 'Terminator' skin, with Terminator voices, and I just shudder every time I frag him and he screams.. it is just too stupid to be true. Later I'd like to download some skins when they become available, of movie characters, and I don't want to have them screaming on me.. it's just really destroys the fun for me.

Anyways, to have an option would be ideal I suppose. I don't know how models are created, but I suppose all the sounds can be custom right? Wouldn't it be quite easy to omit the screaming? (at least for some models to give some choice??).

Oh, and while we're on the topic of voices, if you want some constructive voices to enhance a fragging experience, might I suggest desperation voices. Remember in Predator when Arnie and Co went Arrrrrrggggghhhhh! whilst unloading 100's of rounds at the Predator? I'd like to see my bot enemies desperately going "arrggghhh!!!" (not screaming mind you - shouting, there is a big difference) whilst unloading a mini-gun trying desperately to hit me. I think that is more satisfying than hearing some juvenile taunt, or a silly scream. What do you think??????? ("Take that you sucker!!!" "Eat this!!".. just think of any movie when a line was said, just before some big gun was fired at some menacing foe!)

AJY

Don't frag me, love me.

[This message was edited by ajy on May 29, 2000 at 04:20.]

 

[Warren]

heh- I'm afraid you're confiding that movies accurately represent reality =P Although we pride ourselves in the multitude of options Inf provides, we cannot please everyone.. =)

<hr align="left" width="50%" size="1" color="#00FF00"><font size="1">Warren
Project Coordinator
i n f i l t r a t i o n
http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration

Questions? Are you a FNG? Check out our Roadmap
Then check out our FAQ</font>

 

[Omega]

Please consider this..

Hi Warren,

thanks for taking the time to reply. I really do hope that you consider having an option to remove the screams or greatly reducing them. I just can't see how it can be possible to be realistic audio-wise when during a fire-fight, the screams are louder than the guns. I really really really really (huge emphasis) feel it takes away a great measure of realism. Imagine fragging someone with a missile launcher FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, and the stupid missile is softer than the scream. I want to hear a boom so deafening, I will be shell-shocked LIKE I SHOULD BE, not hear magical people who have voice-boxes that can out-do a bomb explosion!!!

Please please see what I mean. I can see where you guys are coming from, you guys probably think it's funny to hear the screams (a humour I do not share, but that is beside the point), but REGARDLESS, you simply must admit it is unrealistic. I have talked at length before, about the problems of gun sound fx of the UT engine, and I have found that turning up the volume offsets the problems somewhat, but those darn screams just get louder and louder, and are louder than the explosions which I just find too over the top, and inappropriate especially for a realistic mod like Infiltration.

About the movie, I thought that someone might bring that up. That is why I chose Saving Private Ryan, which we all know is the pinnacle of real-life war simulation - so much so that the WWII vets who were brought in wept every 30 minutes (the film had to be stopped) because it was so real. I am not a soldier, so obviously I do not have the experience (nor wish to have it) of real-life fragging, but I think if 100% of the movies do NOT have screaming everywhere, that at least one of them has SOME measure of experience - especially big guns like Steven Spielberg who got real-life consultants.

I'll tell you why this is such a big deal: we all know the UT sound engine prevents mods from having the superb sound effects of Half-Life mods, so the only thing we firework lovers can do is to UP the volume. However, in doing so, it brings screams to a ludicrously high volume that it really feels that we are just cold-blooded serial killers. Coz we ain't hearing no big explosions, all we hearing are those screams! Can you see what I mean, we need to compensate by increasing the volume, that is IMPERATIVE for enjoying those gun sfx you guys are making, and we can't do it competing with super-loud irritating screams! We want to enjoy your hard-work.

PLEASE AT LEAST THINK ABOUT IT???
AJY

Don't frag me, love me.

 

[boogerboi]

you noe wat
i think i agree with AJY...
this is supposed to b a realistic mod for crying out loud!!! (pardon the pun)
its a small problem but it affects the entire gameplay...and we r striving for perfection (maybe not totally perfect but...near there=)

 

[SF_SlicK]

yup i agree with ajy, i hate all those bs autotaunts and screams, in UT maybe, but if going for a real life mod, i dont see there place, these guys are supposed to be tuff elite hardcore guys and they scream like women (booffense to women fraggers)as they die, all these extra audio features make the guns sound less important and muffled, IMHO, if they are in future versions i think it will take away from the game, i hope u fix it, neither are very realistic, make the guns make ppl shudder and wanna run for cover, instead of muffled by all the "extra feature" that UT has that makes it feel like an arcade game, where do i put my quarter?

 

[Catalyst]

I think this addresses a bigger problem. The guns do not themselves sound very loud because most of the sound effects in UT are played at MAXIMUM VOLUME. If all the rest of the sounds played at 50% or sounds could be played at a higher volume than the rest of the sounds the guns would sound much better.

Catalyst

 

[Omega]

Yahoo!! Firework lovers unite!!

I knew there were heaps of people that agreed with me!! You know why? Because I bet you like FPS for the same reason I do: you love guns! You don't play FPS because you're a raving psychotic who likes to torture people and hear people shriek like gibbering baboons, you just like to hear explosions and feel the powerful kickback from the recoil of your favourite gun.

I just don't get why UT seems to cater more to the raving psychotics by virtue of having the yowls louder than the guns, when obviously people are more interested in the guns. I mean, check out Half-Life -- it ain't so great, but they have the best gun sound effects and that's what people want. Who cares about screamings and yellings when the guns don't sound right? And half the right is being able to turn up the sound really loud.

HERE'S THE DEAL: What does every single person who plays an FPS have in common?? Ans: they love to shoot cool looking and sounding guns! And what happens when you shoot those guns? You Frag. And what happens when you frag in UT? You hear those ear-piercing screams - there are about 3 dying sounds, and those same dying sounds are played regardless of what voice pack you're using (and whether you even REMOVE voices altogether! DOH!) - AND you hear those sounds OVER and OVER and OVER again. The more you love your gun, the more you hear the screams. And what do you think happens? Think dripping tap! Think Japanese water torture! It really does get irritating and annoying. Go on: now switch to Counter Strike, and what happens? You're back in gun paradise - 100% gunz and nothin' else - no yells, just shells!

[Infiltration team: I hope this topic doesn't bore you. We are doing everything in our power to persuade you before 2.8 comes out, rather than waiting until it's too late. Believe me, hearing the guns MUCH louder than other useless noises like screams is VERY important. We are all just dying to frag with our booming M4 until we're deaf, not listen to some pansy shriek half the time - it's like listening to fingernails across a blackboard. Part of the fantasy is that we're hard-assed soldiers, and we expect our opponents to be hard-assed too - fight'n and dyin' like soldiers, not squealing pigs]

{Gun fans: oh come on!! I know that is 100% of you! Let's hear your support that you want Infiltration to sound 'right' - loud bangs and explosions, the smell of napalm in the morning and all that. Let's rock and roll!]

AJY

ps. before someone flames me, I mentioned CounterStrike only because it has the best sound out of all the games, I play UT because it's more fun. Why can't I have my cake and eat it? Infiltration can be da 'man'!


Don't frag me, love me.

[This message was edited by ajy on May 30, 2000 at 05:26.]

 

[Nightpaw]

raving psychotics

Pardon me, as stated above, I like the mixture of screams and gunsounds and I do not feel I am a "raving psychotic". And I consider it a bit of hypocrisy on one hand to say that you like the sound of guns (which were manufactured to inflict damage and therefore pain on people) and on the other to say that the screams invoked by the shooting of guns are annoying. IMO the main fun-factor in FPS like INF results from the tension built up by the fear of being shot and the struggle for survival against the enemy. And the screams are part of that. The remind me of the pain you feel when being hit by the enemy and therefore urge me to move more cautiosly.
____________________________________________________________

"He jests at scars, that never felt a wound."

 

[Moron]

<headshot> Arrrrghhh!

If a person just have his/hers head shot off; where does the scream come from?

I agree with ajy.... But dont use a ton of time to solve it, though.

 

[Omega]

I'm not calling anyone a psychotic!!

The point is, that having the screams LOUDER than the gunz is implying that UT thinks we enjoy listening to screams more than loud guns. Whether you like screams or not is really beside the point, if Infiltration really wants to have a realistic mood, it absolutely has to tone down the screams or remove them, because the last time I looked, I didn't see anybody who screamed louder than a ballistic missile or as was mentioned: scream with their head blown off. It is too arcadesy, and DOES remove the atmosphere of realism. Even with the screams, the volume just HAS to decrease!

Oh, and loving the feel and sound of guns does NOT mean I enjoy listening to screams, and I think millions of Americans would resent that statement! A lot of people enjoy recreational shooting. I enjoy playing Laser Quest (those indoor laser games) and PaintBall, but that doesn't mean I enjoy the thought of killing my friends. I enjoy hunting them down, but in the process of this enjoyment, I don't feel the need to "enhance" it with their screams!!!!!

Similarly, I enjoy hunting down virtual targets. I want the thrill of using expensive and powerful weapons, things I cannot do in real-life. Part of being absorbed into the illusion of being a SWAT member or elite SEAL is the realism of the sound effects - the balance, so to speak. And the plain realism is that guns are LOUD and dead people don't scream! If I wounded you, you might be groaning, but in UT you shriek like a chimpanzee when you die! Hardly absorbing when you are supposed to have the illusion of fighting hardened veterans.

Ever watched real-life footage of kidnappings/hostage taking? Occasionally the unfortunate captives get shot (or the captor) - you don't hear them screaming like monkeys!!!

Infiltration is aiming high in the realism stakes. They are aiming for far greater realism than CounterStrike. But really, you can have all this complexity, but if you have people squealing away - POP there goes the illusion of the experience!!!!

Just TRY IT!! Play a REALISTIC game like Rogue Spear, or SWAT3.. then play UT and pay attention to the screams. It just makes UT feel like you're in some arcade game.. FINE for mods like U4ET, but for a realistic mod like Infiltration? Huh???

Please, all I ask is that you guys think about it for a moment. Maybe the thought just had not occurred to you, which is why I am taking the considerable time to elaborate on every detail. You will always have regular UT, where you can hear them scream to your hearts content - but with a realistic mod like Infiltration - let us feel like a soldier and fight like a soldier!!!

hoping for the best!
AJY

Don't frag me, love me.

 

[Galaddin]

heh there should be screaming... everytime a guys clip runs empty in the middle of a firefight... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

It is impossible for the glass to be half full or half empty for you see: there is no glass

 

[CoffeyCan]

a middle ground...

Weve been through similiar ideas such as this. Some people scream loud when injured, some dont make a sound and everything inbetween.

In 'Black Hawk Down' helicopter pilot Mike Durant recalled a Delta Force member crying out in pain as he was shot and overrun by Somalis, and Delta members are as tough as any of the spec ops groups. So the toughness of the character isnt really valid as a reason why someone may scream or not. There are recounts by Rangers of their injured friends doing everything from screaming loud, to not making a sound. So we established that we have a continuum of reactions, now how to implement it?

I agree that the screams are too loud, but I dont think that they should be taken out, a cry lets you know that team members are hurt and that you need to change tactics to help them, or if they bite it, maybe changing overall tactics. So to me, the scream is key to gameplay, having a cry out or grunt when injured only adds to INF, the key like Catalyst said is blending the sounds together to get them to sound more realistic.

I do think that the auto taunts and all that should be taken out, they serve no realistic purpose and are useless in the first place.
CC

RealMaps Site Founder/Coordinator
Want to be an Infiltrator? Get the goods at:
http://www.planetunreal.com/realmaps/

 

[Cunubelin]

Using Saving Private Ryan

The dead don't scream - true
The dying DON'T scream - true AND false
(this is one SICK topic btw /infopop/emoticons\icon_wink.gif)
You said that they didn't scream like they do in UT in the movie S.P.R. Well maybe not exactly like in UT but during the assault on Omaha beach they screamed...
And it was not only from physical injuries try to imagine the stress put on your mind at a time like that. Imagine that any second could be your last or worse you could lie on the beach for hours with your guts in your hands and you know you're going to die. Wouldn't YOU scream? I know I would.
As for the autotaunts (I've always played with them on) can't you turn them off? I believe there's an option for that in the UT menus somewhere...

Peace
C

The Old Lie;
Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori

 

[Omega]

Of screamings and of not..

Well.. this is getting interesting. I agree that if you're lying down holding in your intestines you'd be screaming.. and if you're severely injured (like the Delta Force guy) you might be screaming. But the problem is that UT does not offer this level of realism.

You know what? The mega-violent game SoF has screaming too, and are you surprised? It does'NT bother me!!!
Reasons:
1) The screams do not overpower the guns (MAIN reason)
2) The screams come at an appropriate time: when they simply get shot to pieces, they don't scream, but if you blow off their limb, or shoot them in the gut, or burn them with the flamer they will... this is more realistic. (UT doesn't offer this level of detail - therefore it doesn't work in UT)
3) If they are making noise, it is from the first hit, not from the last like UT (like real-life)

But what happens in UT? You are pumping them with lead say about 10-20 times, and no noise!!! Then suddenly the last bullet makes them scream like a baby! Now please.. this simply is like an arcade game. It can be quite 'fun' in regular UT, because it is like a 'victory' noise (which I imagine is why the people that like it, like it) - BUT it is NOT realistic for a realistic game like Infiltration. So you see, I am not bothered so much by screams - but the way UT does it : at the wrong time, and at the wrong volume!!!!!!

CS offers about the same level of visible damage location realism as UT, and we don't find them screaming, we just hear a groan.. and all the fans find this is enough. If you want to know your comrade has downed, I think a groan is enough. There is not enough visible damage realism (like in SoF) to warrant anybody screaming their head off from a particularly nasty specific wound (and even then SoF does it at an apropriate volume - they don't make it the loudest noise like in UT).

Now can't we all get along and have both??? If you want the arcade feel, then play regular UT, but when we want realism, we play Infiltration!! Cool?

bring on the b-b-boooom!
AJ

Don't frag me, love me

[This message was edited by ajy on May 30, 2000 at 22:00.]

 

[Catalyst]

OK, I think we all agree screaming should stay. Like CoffeyCan mentioned there is a sound blending problem. In real life, the report from a gun being fired is very very loud and also very close to your ears. This makes the gun sound sort of use 100% of your hearing faculty, so even if there is loud stuff going on around you the loudness of the gun "overpowers" the other sounds and drowns them out. Unfortunately the UT sound processing system does not take this into account, which may be one of the reasons it sounds so shitty in general. The engine simply says, OK, I'm playing this scream sound effect at 100% volume, and I got this gun shooting at 100% volume, hey I'll just play both of them equally. Obviously the human ear does not work exactly the same way. So the only real solution to the Inf team would be to reduce the level at which all other sound effects are played, which as I was once a programmer for the engine, I know this to be somewhat impossible. So we'll just have to live with it I guess.

Catalyst

 

[Catalyst]

I'd also like to add the Unreal engine dropped the ball big time on how they handle sound from a distance. It would be so cool if you could hear guns being fired from far away at a lower volume rather than how it is now, where it seems it is played at 100% to a given distance and then it's cut off completely. That's pretty ****ing stupid of them, isn't it.

Catalyst