Batman Arkham Asylum Postmortem

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dub

Feb 12, 2002
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I'll see your strange comparison and raise it

I'm sure some people hate this game in the same way that some people find Beethoven as a garbage musician or Mozart as a bad artist. :)
I'm sure some people put this game on a pedestal the same way some people put Britney Spears on the same level as Mozart or Beethoven.
 

KaiserWarrior

Flyin' High
Aug 5, 2008
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Don't get me wrong, Batman was a fairly good game and definitely worth the one playthrough.

But it is hardly the second coming of god as people keep making it out to be. It is not on the level of Beethoven and Mozart by a long shot. I think some people are looking at it through the Batgoggles, and not as a game in and of itself.

The combat system is rather competent, but in the end it's mostly just a fancy set of animations for a fairly limited arsenal. You have punch, stun, batarang (which is just stun at longer range), throw, and takedown. While they all work very well, and the animations are good, it's lacking the depth and satisfaction of games with a two-attack (two different "punches") system, like Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden.

The game world and its exploration is a little small, for my tastes. I was rather disappointed to see that there wasn't any real exploration as far as new places to go, or finding out how to progress -- progession itself was very linear, and the exploration just amounted to various small holes in the wall that you needed item X to open up. I compare it to Metroid games by saying that in Metroid, new abilities are almost more frequently new forms of mobility than new forms of weaponry, which allows you to get around your environment in new and interesting ways. This only really occurs with the Line Launcher in Batman, and it's mostly confined to crossing two or three mandatory pits in the game, and finding four or five of the ridler secrets. It was also unnecesarily frustrating to find a secret area, sometimes after a fairly complex (for this game) jumping puzzle, only to find that they'd blocked it off with Item X (usually the super batclaw) arbitrarily. The places were easy to find so there was no sense of accomplishment, but all of them had a "come back later" sticker on them. In Metroid, these lead to entirely new areas, or new shortcuts between areas, and contain weapon upgrades. In Batman, these are simple boxes containing Ridler Doohickey #123917830192, which does nothing other than advance your counter towards an achievement which has a very unsatisfying reward.

The story is a little on the undetailed side. What's there is great, and the characters are well-written and very well-acted. There's just not a whole lot to it. The Scarecrow sequences were very imaginative and nicely done, but most of them just took the time to delve into a past we're already extremely well aware of and have seen hundreds of times before. They felt tacked-on.

The game was definitely good and worth the playthrough despite these faults. But for me, it's too flawed to heap the mountains of praise that people do.
 

DannyMeister

UT3 Jailbreak Coder
Dec 11, 2002
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It's amazing how people can play the exact same thing and have such different opinions of it.

Batgoggles? Tell me a game isn't supposed to be cooler to someone because it is their favorite IP.

I like the way the combat is, i'm glad they didn't throw another attack in there. Really, I think it already is a two-attack system because the counter is used almost as much as attack, and you have to be good about hitting it at the right time.

I can't name a better super hero game, and I've played a lot because it is a genre I enjoy. I start the game up every once in a while to simply climb the tower and glide for hundreds of feet, or to zip line across the map.

If I'm deluded at heaping praises on this game, then I guess I'm OK with that. At least I've been having a lot of fun. The more you choose to see good in a game, the more you will enjoy it.

Edit: P.S. Even the pause menu is cool. I love that transition from the detailed, realistic graphics to comic book style. Oh, and all the voice actors from my favorite cartoon ever! I have a bad case of bat goggles :D
 
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Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
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Heh, I made the comparison to Mozart and Beethoven because they wrote what many people consider masterpieces. I'm not really sure how you can consider this game anything other than a masterpiece of art, animation and gameplay.

I understand that some people just don't find the depth there, but that's true of any piece of art. Whether you like it or not is your own thing, but you should still be able to objectively critique it.

Personally, I really enjoyed the combat, and it pretty much has everything to do with the animation system. It's not supposed to be a fighter, it's supposed to be a platformer, and it does that perfectly for what it is. Not only that, but the combat system overall has plenty of depth if you consider all the ways you can accomplish combat other than just running in fists blazing.
 

dub

Feb 12, 2002
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Well.. Mozart was the Britney Spears of his time :p
Not even at a stretch. If anything Britney's music producers...

...not really sure how you can consider this game anything other than a masterpiece of art, animation and gameplay.
Quite easily. By having different tastes.
Also can't throw those all in the same pot as we all know good graphics don't make good gameplay, right?

Graphics - sweet
Art - good
Animation - good with some shoddy stuff
Gameplay - mediocre


I understand that some people just don't find the depth there, but that's true of any piece of art. Whether you like it or not is your own thing, but you should still be able to objectively critique it.
And by objectively you mean from your objective? :p

As I said, it's not a bad game and I did enjoy it, but it's no where near GOTY in my eyes and if you must here some critique then:

Combat was weak. I can expand on that if you will, but it turned samey very quickly besides not having much depth and being pretty much on rails.

The game itself felt like a large string of quicktime events in general.

The stealth was only so-so. Bunch of things there if found a little weird.

I also wouldn't consider it a real platformer either, the way you do. The real platforming parts were minor and was never particularly complex. With the lack (not saying it's a bad thing) of a jump button though, that is to be expected.

Also to me this is very much a play-once-forget-forever game. I finished the main game pretty quickly and then had some extra sittings for the Riddler Puzzles and that was it. Un-installed and doubt it'll ever go back to it.
The unlockables were also a little ish.

That's another thing. The puzzles... wasn't all that much to them either.

As said, I like the game (I'd give like an 8 out of 10), but I can sure as hell see it had some flaws, or if you will, things that weren't to my liking.
So as you see, it is quite possible to see some downsides to this most amazing game ever made. Ever.
 

Northrawn

New Member
Feb 21, 2009
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k in the day we had a single level - with maybe a color-swap if we were lucky - and we liked it! (/ old guy mode)

Yeah, but we had to change the colored glass that tinted the Space Invaders by ourselves between the levels.

Kids nowadays...
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
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Quite easily. By having different tastes.
Also can't throw those all in the same pot as we all know good graphics don't make good gameplay, right?

Graphics - sweet
Art - good
Animation - good with some shoddy stuff
Gameplay - mediocre
You HAVE TO throw them in the same pot, because without one piece of it, the art aspect of it is completely diminished. Would the game be ANY good without ANY gameplay?
And by objectively you mean from your objective? :p
No, by objectively I mean look at it outside of your personal likes and dislikes and judge the game based on how well it did the things it did.

I'm not going to respond to each of your points specifically, but overall I just can't tell what games you are comparing Batman to as a reference for your overall opinion. There is value in judging games on their own, but you can't just say "This isn't the best game this year" and also say "There are no better games this year".

I also think several of your complaints must have had more to do wit how you chose to play the game than whether the game is actually good in that area.

I'm also unsure what you mean about the game not being a platformer. The game IS a platformer. If it has aspects that don't seem very "platformy", that's by design, but the overall experience of the game is that of playing a platform game. I guess our definitions of what that is could be different, but "sidescrolling" is not one of my requirements.

I agree that there wasn't much depth in some areas of the game, but I see that as a strength more than a weakness. I hate platform games that try to make you solve complex puzzles to progress in the game. There is none of that in Batman. The most complex puzzles in the game are "how do I kill these five armed guys without dying?" instead of "where do I find the screw under the pile of rubble on the other side of the island that fits into this wire in the middle of the island that lets me climb up this wall on this side of the island?" Batman progresses at a nice speed, and even casual players won't find themselves sitting stuck at any particular point of the story part of the game for very long. That is a win in my book.

In the end, the game has as much or as little depth as you want it to have. You could solve every combat situation by knocking people out with your batarang and running in and pounding everyone down. I'm sure if you did that it would seem like you were just playing a simplified fighting game and not have much depth. I took the less brute force path and waited things out in those instances and found a lot more depth there.
 

[NBK]Rattman

Goo God
Feb 22, 2005
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I'm with Brizz on this...I took the stealthy approach in most situations and I think that made the game very enjoyable.

I would use sneak attacks on a few of the guys in a room then batarang the last remaining ones to slow them down, then I would pounce on them...all that action took place in one room in the game...to me thats a great set of tools you use just to clear one small area!

I think the puzzles in the game were just the situtations...How am I gonna kill all these armed guys without being seen and not get Commisioner Gordon killed in the process!!
 

Sjosz

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Dec 31, 2003
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www.dregsld.com
The game is a good game, but not perfect, and I don't see how this compares to a Beethoven or Mozart masterpiece. Technically the game seems very sound, and there's not many bugs. It's just a really good game. Nothing more, nothing less. At one point I found the unsourced lighting a bit annoying, despite the package deal being good. The bossfights were by and large pretty badly designed. It diminished the experience for me.
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
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Not necessarily. Art isn't always well thought out. I think we'd be surprised how some of the things we consider masterpieces were created in their time.

The thing is, it's all subjective and it's all about what you see as far as whether you will like it. But they did an amazing job. The game looks good, the gameplay is entertaining, the story progression is good, the atmosphere is perfect. Is it perfect? No. But almost no art is perfect.
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
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To be fair, I see Mass Effect as a masterpiece of a similar, but different kind :) I just think the combination of what they did is good enough to call it that.
 

hal

Dictator
Staff member
Nov 24, 1998
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I agree that there wasn't much depth in some areas of the game, but I see that as a strength more than a weakness.

Well said.

Also, comparing feature x from one game with feature x of another without context is pointless.

The fighting system, for instance, isn't as complex as other games like Ninja Gaiden, but that's by design. Batman is a superhero and someone playing as him should expect to do some rather amazing things rather easily.

The complexity that is there is more subtle. Button timing and choosing opponents wisely is more important than memorizing complex patterns of button presses. You're also perfectly free to mix it up - besides attack, sweep, counter, and jump buttons you can make use of any of his gadgets or the environment during a fight. Throw in the stealth aspects and you've got a playground in which you can be The Dark Knight, terrorizing bad guys with ease.
 

Dogger

New Member
Oct 4, 2004
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Art isn't always well thought out. I think we'd be surprised how some of the things we consider masterpieces were created in their time.

I think your getting abit mixed up, art in general doesnt need to be well thought out, but a masterpiece requires alot of pre planning and years of knowlledge to be executed. I dont think in the history of the human race has there been a masterpiece that has happend by accident.
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
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I think your getting abit mixed up, art in general doesnt need to be well thought out, but a masterpiece requires alot of pre planning and years of knowlledge to be executed. I dont think in the history of the human race has there been a masterpiece that has happend by accident.
Maybe not entirely by accident, but some of the things we consider masterpieces were not made to be such.