Anti cheat protection?

[fireball]

You must also consider...
How could AntiTCC mistake a "sound" file for a cheat?
I'm not a coder... but that certainly seems odd.
If an anticheat protection errors that easily, I think kickvote/ban works just fine.

I haven't used it much, but from what I recall it simply checks against every file the server runs first. Anything else that could be loaded externally is then declared invalid. Pretty sure it ignores soundpacks in the newer versions, though.
K/B votes are fine unless you have a serious ******* infestation problem.

 

[trogetta]

just a quick note, sound files can be used as cheat....ie: say for example foot steps, if they wre changed to a louder sound, that player has an advantage of being able to hear people easier. Sure not a "common" cheat, but everything needs to be protected against

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Also, sound files are loaded by the engine and could theoretically contain more than "sound files".

 

[maceth]

id prefer unnecessary files being considered as cheats than playin in a server full of cheaters.
I come from the tribes community where t1 was probably the most customised game EVER and yet i still value secure gameplay over this freedom.

 

[PF Prophet]

You must also consider...
How could AntiTCC mistake a "sound" file for a cheat?
I'm not a coder... but that certainly seems odd.
If an anticheat protection errors that easily, I think kickvote/ban works just fine.
I even spent the better part of a year patrolling a trio of extremely popular servers back in the original Unreal.
Actually, the personal interaction with the players at that level is something I rather miss.

Don't misunderstand and think I am in any way against anticheat software... not at all.
I am against any protection software that isn't totally transparent to my gaming experience.
This also includes crapware cd protection schemes.
You can take a look at any NOCD site and find a crack for virtually ANY title released... allowing it to be played without the CD.
Since this is true, and would seem to show that CD protection schemes are pretty much useless, then why are they still being used on nearly every title that reaches retail? They aren't stopping those that pirate the games... not at all.
Who suffers then?
I do... I currently have about 20 titles installed on my PC, and each one cries for the CD in order for me to play it.
Some actually run poorly because of the protection software and I had to use a NOCD crack just to make them play correctly.
This, in turn, made me just go ahead and figure "Screw it, my software... I purchased it all... I'll crack 'em all so I can play without the CDs."
And I did.
As is apparent... yes, I have strong opinions about what I get when I lay my money down.
To the extent that I have actually stopped purchasing NovaLogic titles because they have become militant in their online attempts at protecting the software.
They have every right to protect their property, but no right to punish legit cash paying gamers while pursuing the non-legit ones.
No, I was never banned... but I had friends get bit by accident.
So my last NovaLogic game CD (Black Hawk Down) is now a coaster to set my coffee on.
Too bad, NovaLogic was always one of my favorites.

Anyhow, I think I've said all there is to say on this.
My apologies for being longwinded.

Happy Gaming,
--Orv

AHHHH finly somebody who understands

infact i wont pay for alot of software if i find its protected by more militant means
u know there are protection apps out there that can even crash your system and cruppt the hdd IF they catch you cheating

these arent used in the us becouse we would sue them but its leigal in some countrys to do stuff like that


i refuse to buy a game that REQUIERS the disk and has constant updates to keep you from using a "crack" or loaded image (some games check for virtual drives and anti protection programs like daemon tools
in the states is PERFECTLY LEIGAL to make a backup of your softwar/movies as long as u keep the orignal and dont sell the copy

cd protection is used becouse at one time it was effective against some people

now even a basic computer gamer tends to know about nocd cracked exes and uses them to avoid having to keep there cds out

im hoping t:v dosnt requier a disk in the drive to play if it dose i will email vu games dayly till they put out a patch for it since i dont want to have to keep my game disks in a drive or on my desk or have to fish them out of my cd case every time i want to game

ut i know i will have to load a crack OR use my eumlation software to spoof it into thinking i got my orignal disk in the drive but thats fine theres alwase a way

they need to relise if the didnt over charge for games and put protections in them more people would buy the games and buy the expantions/upgrades for these games

corse same go's for windows more people would buy ligit copys of windows if bill would get smart and sell a support free(other then download updates) version of windows with just a disk and licence for like 35-55$ for a ligit pro version
charge people who need phone help x$ a minute for help or allow them to buy x number of minutes in the form of a calling card type system

i dont know anybody whos called for support on a game email yeah but called on the phone NEVER

windows they treat all ligit owners like they are piretas if you install to menny times or change ur hardware you must call and have them reacctovate ur licence key so u can acctovate the os becouse your fukd if they dont

thats why i even owning ligit copys of ALL versions of windows nt (2003 server editions other then data center included) download and use corp files becouse some of us dont wish to have to communicate with MS every time we inall a new hdd or vid card or even ram (have seen it happen)

anti cheat protection should be used for games but not protection that effects how non cheaters play the game thats just dumb

well thats all i got to say for now (long winded i know)

 

[Sir_Brizz]

You must also consider...
How could AntiTCC mistake a "sound" file for a cheat?
I'm not a coder... but that certainly seems odd.
If an anticheat protection errors that easily, I think kickvote/ban works just fine.
--Orv

It doesn't "mistakenly". Every file that gets loaded into the Engine can contain more data than just the type of data it is trying to load in. Alot of scripts/hacks/cheats are written like this. Even something as simple as a "sound file" if loaded properly can be told to load a piece of code that allows the user to cheat. It's what is commonly called a "backdoor" in the hacker world.

That said, there is no real reason to be using a file on your local machine that gets loaded when you go online that differs from the files of the server you are playing on. So a solution like AntiTCC would be just fine.

 

[Orv]

It doesn't "mistakenly". Every file that gets loaded into the Engine can contain more data than just the type of data it is trying to load in. Alot of scripts/hacks/cheats are written like this. Even something as simple as a "sound file" if loaded properly can be told to load a piece of code that allows the user to cheat. It's what is commonly called a "backdoor" in the hacker world.

That said, there is no real reason to be using a file on your local machine that gets loaded when you go online that differs from the files of the server you are playing on. So a solution like AntiTCC would be just fine.

Booting me from a server as "cheating" when I am not is indeed a "mistake".
And given the choice between dumping files that are part of a huge community effort to keep Unreal games new and fresh or finding another server...
I'm gonna find another server.

You have every right to your viewpoint on this Sir_Brizz, the same as I have to mine.
That is what the "FAVORITES" browser feature is for.


Happy Gaming,
--Orv

 

[Sir_Brizz]

The question is, why do you need to use that voicepack online when 1> nobody will be using it so they won't hear the taunts anyways, and 2> no servers have it loaded?

I mean, you're likely to get kicked with UTSecure for something like that.

My point was that something that is loaded by the engine potentially has a backdoor into the engine and can let you cheat.

 

[Limited]

We've set up our own global GUID ban system.

A globan ban GUID system already exists, its called UTAN. Please use it instead of creating another. http://utan.unrealadmin.org

 

[Orv]

The question is, why do you need to use that voicepack online when 1> nobody will be using it so they won't hear the taunts anyways, and 2> no servers have it loaded?

I mean, you're likely to get kicked with UTSecure for something like that.

My point was that something that is loaded by the engine potentially has a backdoor into the engine and can let you cheat.

#1 isn't true... I've played at plenty of UT2k4 servers running various voicepacks.
How do I know?
When someone else uses one that I have it is heard at my end.
One right off the top of my head is Cain's Lair (ONS).
If you do not have the voicepacks, you will have no way of knowing what voicepacks it may or may not be running.

And I have a reason I use the Homer voicepack, and anyone playing on a server I frequent knows why.
Because I use a Homer Simpson cell-shaded avatar and the voicepack goes with it.
Because it gives me enjoyment.

Look, I am not somehow WRONG because I have issues with non-transparent anticheat software.
Anticheat software is not the 'end-all' solution to cheating... and I personally feel that I should not suffer my gaming enjoyment on servers using software that may label me incorrectly as cheating and kick me.

Truthfully, in all the years I have been playing Unreal games I have only on extremely rare occassions found myself on a server where someone was actually been beyond a doubt cheating.

I'm going to stop responding to this thread at this juncture, because I feel nothing constructive is being added at this point from my end and I am really starting to get the impression that the posts from Sir_Brizz are becoming argumentive.

Sorry Brizz, I'm really not interested in arguing this with you.
My only intent was to voice my opinion, not try to prove it correct/incorrect for anyone but myself.


Happy Gaming,
--Orv

 

[Magwa]

I've been booted by AntiTCC many times by mistake, for silly errors like claiming my Homer Simpson voicepack was a cheat.
So, needless to say, I'm not overly impressed by it.
Kickvotes are nice... unless someone can create anti-cheat programming that doesn't bash innocent players.

**There is only ONE thing I hate more than cheaters... being MISTAKEN for one by software**

--Orv

same here and i refuse to play on them Anti TCC is a laggy program and XMP needs no lag,custom content is a huge part of the game (that is why they give you the editor) and voice packs ever since UT have been a huge part of the game with everyone having the same skins it makes idenifying your clan mates a whole lot easier.IMO

 

[Magwa]

any server can load a certain voice pack like [NBS} has all of the UT voice packs ,alot of clans use a certain voice pack for their server it identifies them from everyone else ,it is downloaded automaticly when you join.BTW [NBS] and cairns neither run anti TCC. but they have great admins who do NOT tolerate cheating in any way shape of form.Utan and good admins will be all that is needed in XMP.

 

[Orv]

any server can load a certain voice pack like [NBS} has all of the UT voice packs ,alot of clans use a certain voice pack for their server it identifies them from everyone else ,it is downloaded automaticly when you join.BTW [NBS] and cairns neither run anti TCC. but they have great admins who do NOT tolerate cheating in any way shape of form.Utan and good admins will be all that is needed in XMP.

I don't think I've played at [NBS] server... I'll give it a spin.
And yes, I have been avoiding the servers that run AntiTCC... I've noticed they behave somewhat laggy when they do midgame checks.
Often I can be playing an AntiTCC enabled server for an hour or more until it happens to trigger one particular taunt from my HomerJay3 voicepack, then I'm instantly booted.
LOL!
I don't recall the taunt offhand, but AntiTCC is obviously misidentifying something in that taunt since it ignores the rest of the pack.

I like Cairns server, good solid server.
I am a little confused noticing that while many ONS servers are running tons of community-made models and voicepacks, hardly ANY at all are running maps other than:
ONS-ArcticStronghold
ONS-Crossfire
ONS-Dawn
ONS-Dria
ONS-Primeval
ONS-RedPlanet
ONS-Severance
ONS-Torlan
These eight maps and their ECE variations seem to comprise 95% of all the maps running on ONS servers.
I don't get it...

A quick look at BeyondUnreal and other major UT sited reveals that there is no shortage of ONS maps, and many with high reviews... but nobody seems to actually be running them on servers.

I can only play Torlan so many times before I get bored to tears.


Anyone know why this seems to be true?
--Orv

 

[Pro^Kp]

Id much rather play a server that kicks suspected cheats than play on a server that might have cheats.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

I don't think I've played at [NBS] server... I'll give it a spin.
And yes, I have been avoiding the servers that run AntiTCC... I've noticed they behave somewhat laggy when they do midgame checks.
Often I can be playing an AntiTCC enabled server for an hour or more until it happens to trigger one particular taunt from my HomerJay3 voicepack, then I'm instantly booted.
LOL!
I don't recall the taunt offhand, but AntiTCC is obviously misidentifying something in that taunt since it ignores the rest of the pack.

I like Cairns server, good solid server.
I am a little confused noticing that while many ONS servers are running tons of community-made models and voicepacks, hardly ANY at all are running maps other than:
ONS-ArcticStronghold
ONS-Crossfire
ONS-Dawn
ONS-Dria
ONS-Primeval
ONS-RedPlanet
ONS-Severance
ONS-Torlan
These eight maps and their ECE variations seem to comprise 95% of all the maps running on ONS servers.
I don't get it...

A quick look at BeyondUnreal and other major UT sited reveals that there is no shortage of ONS maps, and many with high reviews... but nobody seems to actually be running them on servers.

I can only play Torlan so many times before I get bored to tears.


Anyone know why this seems to be true?
--Orv

I agree, and you can only play the same link setups so many times before the defaults are too easy :-/

 

[Gumby]

^^ yeah that's like twice...

Why not pester them to put more maps on if you're bored... They're only going to know if you tell them... What about mapvote or a random map setup?

 

[Orv]

Id much rather play a server that kicks suspected cheats than play on a server that might have cheats.

I'm good with that, it's your choice.
Same as you choose a signature with the silly "pwns ju" in it.
You like leet speak and I like running around as Homer Simpson spouting one-liners from the TV series.
I'd say we both have the right to enjoy those things in our gaming eh?


Happy Gaming,
--Orv