2.86 + RD + DTAS + Rav2, an inf player lament

[[UMC]Hawkeye]

Don:
"but i think you only remember the good things about RAv2 and forget the bad things. i remember all the crashes, hill bug , weird spawns..."


silly Don, im not saying i want to re-install 2.86. Im not saying 2.86 is better dummy. Im saying that maybe there were aspects of 2.86 that *I* found more fun then in 2.9 IE: DTAS over EAS. and i think, if you look at the numbers, so did many other people.

 

[Beppo]

If you guys think that the 'old way' (really not a good wording) is better or had some pros, no prob at all. If you think that some servers should try out specific settings, no prob at all. If you think this would get more new and vet players to play INF 2.9, go on with it.

BUT, you guys talk about the current 'situation' as if we lost hundreds of players and are loosing hundreds per day now too. And this is simply not the truth. Sure, we 'lost' some vet 'vanilla' and RA players that do not like 2.9 (several reasons: from too realistic to not realistic enough) but we got a bunch of new players too.
That some of the new players only showed up for a couple of matches and then never showed up again is normal too. A new game gets tested out and if the new players do not like it due to this or that reason then they will not play it anymore. This happens to all games and mods out there so this is nothing special with INF 2.9.

So, I do not get why you guys always have to 'discuss' these things in a way that looks at INF 2.9 as if a dark, evil shadow is lying upon it (exaggerated of course).

So before your discussion gets too personal... maybe end it ... or search for some inputs and ideas that will make the game more fun to play for you guys too instead of telling us that the 'old way' (again this misplaced word) was somehow better.

Sorry if I got personal or if someone understood it that way... was not my intention.

 

[Rasalom]

So, I do not get why you guys always have to 'discuss' these things in a way that looks at INF 2.9 as if a dark, evil shadow is lying upon it (exaggerated of course).

Sorry if that sounded too tramatic. Inf is an amazing game with amazing community.
I expressed what I think then gave ideas what I think could be better. Some came from other players too. I am just trying to help with ideas that, IMO, worked fine in the past and maybe can open new doors for the new inf version.

The "old" style is a way to say how the game was and how cool it was. Random team and objective spawn and no team respawns, simple i think. The first ones I have asked and its the basic proposal of this thread together with some questions for players (to see if this settings is all they miss too), but above all things its a way to see if we can find servers settings to satisfy us all.
We all can imagine how many hours you guys have spent on the new game types, but can't we just try and "old" style with "old" settings?
I am not asking inf to satisfy my and some others ego with map settings and mutators we like, I am just trying to bring some good old features back.

 

[Da_Blade]

Personally, i'm glad with 2.9, and was quite fed up with the DTAS+RA+etc thingie. I'm happily playing my time away, more time then i should actually.

 

[[UMC]Silent-Trigger]

I usually don't surf on the inf forums, but I guess now this gives me a reason to. IMO 2.9 is well done, the movements, recoil, stability etc... You've done a good job with the bugs too, I can't deny that. But the con though is pretty obvious to me. Like most of us have said, the game type is becomming horrible. Once we've master'd EAS properly, I beleive it can head towards... aggrivating players Meaning players will take advantage of its flaws and it will become a brainless game. Sure 2,86 had something similar but damn... it was such an addictive game. It was a drug! Now, every time I turn on my computer, I see no reason why I should start up 2.9. I would have to force myself but ive got other priorties in life than to waist time. That is all.

 

[jaymian]

I think it's the only one spawn point for most EAS maps that gets me. The best part for DTAS to me, was starting at a random place, and having to rethink what you needed to do every time. It made old maps new again over and over. I was playing INF hardcore up until about 6 months ago, and I haven't picked it back up with the release of 2.9. It could be other factors as well, but the games I play instead of INF I could play anytime. But I don't. I play them instead of INF. I even stopped mapping and converting. I have just lost interest. The amount of fun varied far too much from server to server. A few slight setting differences in spawn time and reinforcement count makes a huge difference. And when there are only a few servers to choose from, it's not like anybody can find what feels best in one night. I hate dying, then waiting for 5 minutes for a respawn. I hate spawning and walking for 2 minutes just to get killed and then have to do it all over again if I'm lucky enough to have reinforcements. Not knowing the maps doesn't help either. And not having played as much, there's people out there that know each map and the routes already, and since nothing changes for most EAS maps, it's second nature to them. Random spawns keeps everybody on their toes, vets and noobs. Having only one spawn per team is stupid with respawns, because it heavily encourages spawnkilling. If there were more than one spawn location per team, coupled with random spawning, or even a choice of where to spawn, these things would discourage or at least cripple spawnkilling efforts. I think the beta testing team was playing honorably, and wouldn't try to annoy the other team with spawnkilling, making the game more fun. And everybody knew each other and knew the maps, something you hardly ever get on public servers. I'm surprised as hell if there's even small groups of teamwork, must less an entire team effort. And it doesn't matter what server you are on. I've played with RA vets and MUF monkeys with 2.9, and the amount of teamwork is about the same. Every man, woman, and child for themselves. How much longer do I have to wait until people start to use teamwork on servers? Tell me, and I'll try to squeeze INF into my busy schedule.

 

[Fat Marrow]

My $0.02 worth...

People slowly adapted their style of play when picking up 2.86+rav2+DTAS, and similarly I think people will change when playing EAS -- e.g. when you shoot an attacker, use their expectation that you'll still be sitting their later to your advantage (move and ambush, etc. Worked great for me the other day ).

Also many perceived faults are characteristics of maps. One thing that's great is that there is a variety of gameplay offered by the official maps, and that's just a taster of what's to come...

Looking at maps like Iraq (bits of scenery and crates are randomly positioned at the start of each round), there is much potential for creating different maps each time. Plus you don't need fixed respawns -- the mapper can add some variety in this department (e.g. Mostar).

Also, multiple objectives can stir things up too. e.g. Tuscany -- there are 3 places the attackers can hit, and the defenders' strategy has to be fluid as a result.

Anyway, I understand how people feel on both sides of this debate. Me, I'm looking forward to making and seeing some new, devious and fresh EAS maps

 

[MP_Lord_Kee]

My €0.02...

I'm very happy with the way inf2.9 and EAS works. I'm having a really good time online and most times the games are fun and challenging.

Ofcourse, I enjoyed rav2, DTAS etc a lot as well (only played it, no vanilla for me). But still EAS is perhaps even better in its current state. The respawns generates a feeling of a much bigger battle and you can't never be sure that an area is clear, which in my book creates a much more careful gameplay.
I have seen an increase in both players and teamplay on the servers. Yesterday for instance I saw over 60 players and several servers where full. And had some fantastic teamplaying rounds on some maps. Pure bliss.

Other things that I have noticed. The game time per map (2 rounds) is quite good. Usually around 15 mins per round. (ofcourse, sometimes much quicker, sometimes time runs out). But still, there are not many dead moments, especially if the server is full. DTAS was much faster game play usually, a round took only a few minutes. Especially with a few people only it wasn't that great.

Random spawns were nice. But at this point I think the fixed spawns suits the gameplay and maps and sertainly the new people better. Even a new guy can learn the maps in a few rounds. With random spawns (even with the help of the compass) new people might be turned off the game as the learning curve would sertainly be steeper.

I'm not saying there wouldn't be room for DTAS gametype (actually, I'd love to play some DTAS again with inf2.9 enhancements) and I hope someday that can be arranged. I'm also looking forward to new maps, and new converted maps for EAS play. EAS has a lot of potential that is yet to be discovered.

//Kee

 

[Beppo]

@jaymian, I guess you play on the wrong servers...

I see teamplay on public servers very often and I play only on publics actually. It just depends on who is actually playing. Sure some servers - or better the players that show up there regulary - tend to rambo-esk one-man shows without much teamplay going on but this only depends on the players and how they try to archive the goals. On all the european servers and on GD and AFA the gameplay normally gets pretty team oriented. And if noone wants to team up then most times only cause they do not even communicate with each other or they do not really know how to. And this happens most times only if a new player shows up that only wants to frag a bit instead of playing a team oriented match or doesn't know INF too good yet.
I play INF for hours normally when playing on INForcers, Jgkdo, 121st, AFA, GD aso aso... only on MUF my connection is not that good and the times I showed up there was more a run'n'gun mode rather than teamplay - but this could be a one or two-timer cause the ping is not soo good for me most times and so I do not choose the NA servers too often.

Anyway, the style of play depends heavily on the players playing. Maybe check out some euro servers if you encounter no teamplay on your preffered NA server... even if the pings are a bit higher or you encounter some lag (what not happens often btw). Just check out the game 'how it is meant to be played' before judging it from a couple of matches.
In addition you all know the learning curve that Infiltration has. And this even exists for vet players from any of the previous versions. Do not expect INF 2.9 to be like a version before... try it out and (re)learn it.
Sure, not many players out there give a game a second chance nowadays but most of these players only search for a quick frag or action game without too much thinking most times. So, players that are willing to dig into INF, to learn all the things possible and are not turned off just cause they do not understand a specific thing right from the start are the ones that are rare out there. But most of these players are the ones that really get addicted to a game then and will stick to this game no matter what.

Anyway, play the game some more times with the 'correct' people and if you have questions or do not think that something is working the way you expect or you think it should be (even vets have questions sometimes) then ask the other guys you play with. Most times you will get a helping hand and will find out why something works this or that way or how something works in the first case. Nobody expects an "INF-Expert" right from the start.

 

[Harry_C]

I think 2.9 is all about the maps...

For example, RS46, Iraq, Mostar and Tuscany are the most exciting for me.
You have multiple objectives (some are dynamic) and have to secure a zone for a certain time etc ...

The others are a bit to CTFish, but still good nonetheless.

See what i mean ?

About the

undescriptive feeling to be 40mm naded for a respawned one, the same you just killed

.
Well, were you glued to that spot ?

 

[Cleeus[JgKdo]]

I think the beta testing team was playing honorably, and wouldn't try to annoy the other team with spawnkilling, making the game more fun. And everybody knew each other and knew the maps, something you hardly ever get on public servers.

We TKed like hell to point out this problem.

@jaymian, I guess you play on the wrong servers...
I see teamplay on public servers very often and I play only on publics actually.

Maybe it's a question of the definition of the word "teamplay"

 

[Demosthanese]

The bast match that I ever had was a 3v3 game.I was an attacker, and I had
point...I'll just quote myself:

Tonight I was making my ussual rounds on AFA. We were in Baghdad in a 3v3
game. We left the insertion together heading over to the west side of the
map. We reach the courtyard with the mosque in the center, and I circle
around to the right and go inside. As I come out, there is an enemy coming
down the aproaching the ramp on the otherside of the tunnel. I unload my
entire magazine into him before I realise he's dead (corpses just stand there
for a while, online). I toss a grenade into the side room in the tunnel, just to
be safe. No one there.

We procede on to the raised platform by way of the ladder. We move through
the small tunnels on the other side and near the CD. One tango by the CD. I
take him out. I then move slowly into the small courtyard and spot a man in
the alley below us. We kill him, but he gets a shot off into me. I move to
cover the North end of the alley while 511 gets the CD, and we retreat back
to extract.

I take up the rear position with not bill taking point and 511 in the middle. as
we enter the temple plaza, I take up a position to gaurd against incoming
tangos. while the others move on. I see a tangos head bob behind the wall,
and I move to get a clean shot. Tango down. Seconds later, 511 makes
extract and we win with only one minor casualty.

I recieved the purple heart and 511 gets his arab pr0n disk.

Then, everything changes. 511 gets distracted by his new found prone disk
and shoots anything coming near it, including us. We go from an elite unit, to
the ragged misfits, all because of pr0n.


PS: 511 The Tks wern't too bothersome, as they spawned a fair number of
jokes. However, your apologies for the next three maps...

There can be a huge amount of teamwork when playing online. it all just
depends on who's playing.

 

[Rasalom]

Well, were you glued to that spot ?

Saw that in iraq and that one with the tower (the only one i remember the name) lots of times, when the respawn time was too low, couse it takes some seconds to me move after killing someone.

I have to agree in one point, teamplay. Yesterday I had a good games in toscany playing with mid, crowze.

The main problem is some just don't care about their lives, since they have lots. this is why no respawn is why I ask. But talking with crowze we conclude very high respawns may work too, maybe 2.3, 3 minutes may slow down and elevate teamgame level.

Once again I'll repeat, the idea of this thread is too talk about what was good 2.86 and what can be even better in 2.9, talk about simples changes that can make a big difference in gameplay. Hope all understand.

 

[Vega-don]

i think we all agree for 3 minutes respawns (me looks for GD and inforcers admins).


if you defend , and you all die , in 3 minutes the attackers would have finish the objectives already = high life value.

if you attack and you die , the reinforcements will come in 3 minute for you so this will compromise the current attack .

 

[[UMC]Hawkeye]

Well then id still like to know why there are so many less players in 2.9 at any given time, then back in the golden age of 2.86.

And i think Beppo you have a point, 2.9 could be configured to anyones perfict game, which is what im trying to say, 2.9s fun is serverside, amazing if you like the servers maps, gametpye and setting, meh if you dont.

 

[Fat Marrow]

i think we all agree for 3 minutes respawns (me looks for GD and inforcers admins).


if you defend , and you all die , in 3 minutes the attackers would have finish the objectives already = high life value.

if you attack and you die , the reinforcements will come in 3 minute for you so this will compromise the current attack .

Personally I don't think it's wrong atm, or at least it certainly depends on the map. I think a 3 minute respawn time on RtK, when I'm getting instantly sniped every time I cross the ridge, would drive me mad...

Then again, I'm still fairly rubbish at playing INF after all this time, so my opinion is probably not very important

 

[Demosthanese]

2-3 minutes with virtually unlimited(5+ for a 15 minute map on 3 minute
respawn) respawns may be interesting. Overtime would shorten the length of
defender spawns, but I think over time should not come untill 3/4 into the
match.

 

[Da_Blade]

Well then id still like to know why there are so many less players in 2.9 at any given time, then back in the golden age of 2.86.

When 2.86 was realeased there was no UT2k3 yet. Inf's engine was slightly outdated, but not obsolete yet! Now, the UT engine Inf uses is obsolete. People interested in the mod have to reinstall UT (if they kept on to it at all) to play it, whereas a lot of people still had UT installed before. Few people take effort for a mod, little do they know what they are missing!

 

[Rasalom]

Good news.
Iom and VeGA Clan have disponibilized VeGA server for some tests.

This week it will start with no respawn.
Next week we gonna try 3-4 minutes respawn.

We would ask for people to come to VeGA and try some (old +new)² style!

Tks VeGA and Iom.

 

[NTKB]

I will try and be there... If my ping allows.

Last night was a nice example of teamwork. Late last night only 3 ppl where on all the servers. It was |m| , DeathOwl, and I and at first me and DeathOwl were working together during SandmanNight. In the end we scored the CD, and had 100% teamwork score!

Realizing that it would be more fair if the two newbies were on a team and I was alone, the next map, palais, I witnessed as the two newbies used regular talk, not knowing how to use team talk and revealed there plans. But the funny thing was (and the reason I didnt say anything due to my astonishment) was they were literally attempting to coordiante there attacks and use teamwork!

A few quotes (maybe not exact):

"We MUST use teamwork."

"WE are going in too fast."

*after killing one* "Careful! hes around that corner!"

It was a pleasure to see these new people using teamwork, even though they lost miserably they did not stop doing it! I asked them how long they were playing INF. |m| didnt respond but DeathOwl told me 2 weeks. I asked if they liked the game, there reply ?

"I love it."

Made me for the day.