2.86 + RD + DTAS + Rav2, an inf player lament

[Rasalom]

Hello all,
I am just sad, since inf 2.9 came out I am not sure if I like it or if I hate it. Has amazing features, sounds, graphics, weapons, gameplay is cool, but there is not an "inf feeling" in
gameplay.

When we ( I say "we" couse I have talked with lots of inf players in this last 2 months), used to play 2.86 (RD + DTAS + Rav2) we used to find some challenge. Random team spawn, flag placement and no respawn were amazing features, a new game for each round. I used to find myself adrenalined when playing with my inf friends, high heat beating, sweap, no bliking...

Since 2.9 came out I don't feel not even close to that. Static objectives with respawn make the game boring. All the challenge added by DTAS is gone. Respawn became a small form of ghosting, takes the advantage of tactical and good players. It's a undescriptive feeling to be 40mm naded for a respawned one, the same you just killed. No more "cone fire in 40mm shots" make a big difference too. Small recoil make some guns "Rambo wannabe" like Minimi, FA MAS.

I am sorry for this, but I like inf too much and I am not feeling the same I used to.
-----

Now, I have talked to servers admins to see if they can put some non respawnable servers, maybe once at weak. I would like to know how many players would like to play in this way, then we know if we can try a dedicated non respawnable server.

And, something I'd like to know is why there ins't any mutator like Rav2 or DTAS for 2.9 yet. I remember we had almost 3 groups of inf players, vanilla, Rav1 and Rav2 players, all happy playing inf, more or less realistic. It's not a case " I want to split it ", but I want my old Infiltration game back .

 

[Vega-don]

nao e lindu




i like the way it is now. exept the player who respawns and kill you.
i didnt like DTAS for its unrealistic feeling and for the sometimes weird bugs like spawning 50meters from the opponents.

recoil , i think its nice like that, yurch recoil seemed unrealistic( it isnt a 12y old shooting the gun its a soldier).

Respawns can be spaced more and limited , we tried it with 70sec respawns waves and it is realy more tense

 

[ant75]

I share some of your concern about the overall feeling of the new gameplay, but certainly not about the balance of the game, especially weapons. Weapon balance is even better now than with RA IMHO.
If any admin decide to run a run server without respawns (or even with i very high respawn time), i'm in for sure. Provided that my ping doesn't go above 300, wich is usually the case for me in NA servers... the one thing more unrealistic than respawns, is when you pull the trigger and the round goes off half a second later.
My dream would be to have the 2nd jgkdo server and the 2nd AFA server running with such settings.

 

[jaymian]

I too miss the good old RA days. I don't know what it is, but I just don't feel motivated to play 2.9. I was sure I would be playing non-stop 2.9 for the first 6 months, but I haven't played more than 12 hours total, and I don't feel like playing more. Maybe I have outgrown INF, or INF has outgrown me. Maybe it wasn't what I expected. I don't know. I do know I had more fun with RA matches than the few 2.9 matches I have had.

 

[AlmostAlive]

I think a scenario with no respawns or reinforcments would quickly get boring on a public server, especially for the attackers. As we all know, attackers often have a hard time getting to the objective because the defenders are usually dug in already when the attackers arrive. How often can you, as an attacker, say that your team won a round without everyone on your team dying at least once? Doesn't happen very often to me, but then again, I suck. A life would of course be more precious and people would most likely be more careful, but once you die a lot of waiting awaits you, at least if you, like me, suck For a clanmatch it might work, but on a public server it would get very boring very quickly. Most maps are by default set to 15-18 minutes long. Worst case scenario is you die after 30 seconds 3 rounds in a row. You'll spend 1.5 minutes walking towards the objective before getting shot and 52.5 minutes waiting. Doesn't sound like fun to me.

Unlimited respawns is not my favourite either. I fear the game would turn into a fragfest with everyone just running around shooting at everything that looks like it's moving. Very arcade-ish and very fun. For about 5 minutes.
I know, 90% of the people here will claim their style of playing won't change no matter what the server setting are and for 99% of the people claiming that it would probably be true. At least until you find yourself on a server where noone gives a damn about objectives or teamwork. It's very hard to work as a team if the only one interested in teamwork is you. So you'll most likely end up doing what everyone else is doing or simply leave the server.

I must apologize. It's my Devil's Advocate-weekend. Let's try it. Get a server admin or two to set up their servers. One with unlimited respawns, the other with no respawns. If it works well, people are happy and it's fun, great. If it's not, at least we tried.

As for the other things Ras mentioned, I guess it's up to the community to make the mutators.

 

[DamienW]

I'm interested in seeing how a no-respawns server would work. We can debate all we want about the topic, we won't know for sure until we see it with our own eyes. Unlimited respawns, well, let's not mention it.

As for "rambo weapons", i call it a non-issue. Sure the FAMAS and Minimi are effective, but i get killed as much by all other weapons. I like it this way.

 

[Rasalom]

A life would of course be more precious and people would most likely be more careful, but once you die a lot of waiting awaits you, at least if you, like me, suck For a clanmatch it might work, but on a public server it would get very boring very quickly. Most maps are by default set to 15-18 minutes long. Worst case scenario is you die after 30 seconds 3 rounds in a row. You'll spend 1.5 minutes walking towards the objective before getting shot and 52.5 minutes waiting. Doesn't sound like fun to me.

You can just set 9 rounds with 7-12 minutes like we used to have in 2.86. It was very nice.

 

[iom]

like rasalom, i think respawns are not good.
it's more bad than ghosting...

And yes, 2.86 + rav2 + DTas was really more fun than 2.9

how to play teamgame when you must wait for a teammate who respawn at other side of the map.
how to do some "tactic" when the man you just kill, spawn and know where you are

inf 2.9 doesn't have the "inf feeling" for me.
it's just another game where the rule is to run and kill.

 

[AlmostAlive]

You can just set 9 rounds with 7-12 minutes like we used to have in 2.86. It was very nice.

Then we're talking TDM again. EAS has 2 rounds.

 

[[UMC]Hawkeye]

yeah

jaymian put, how I feel, perfictlly.

"I too miss the good old RA days. I don't know what it is, but I just don't feel motivated to play 2.9"

2.9 is wonderful, but for some reason, i never 'feel' like playing it. While its definetly an improvment over 2.86, 2.9 just dosnt feel like as much fun as 2.86 was.

I would love to play 2.9, with the best maps as well as a mix of the classic 2.86 maps, in TDM or DTAS.

 

[LongJohn]

I can't share the "no inf feelings" and I really don't like the form of expression - Its destructive, unfair and a snap judgment
INF is and was (vanilla, tdm, ra1/2, dtas) a very multifaceted game and at this time we have discovered only a small portion of the potential the new version offer us (which is undoubtedly muuuch higher than 2.86 ever had).

At the time we've played very tense games with ra2/dtas most of the players were experienced veterans in playing 2.86. Every single aspect of the game was well known. Now the community is reunited and many new players joined. This is a desirable effect of 2.9 The downside is that we start now from scratch. Give it some time.

Its not fair to compare the settled 2.86-ra2/dtas gameplay with the still new 2.9-EAS gameplay. Well - The standard EAS settings (and / or -maps) may not provide what everybody likes. We'll need many month of playing with many different settings to find meaningful scenarios for each taste.
And we have not to change INF for that with any custom mutator like ra which would split the community again - INF 2.9 provides everything we need and is not buggy like 2.86/ra...

 

[geogob]

I had a lot of fun to with DTAS and RaV2 (or Ra286). But I really like INF 2.9 too. What I'd like to see is a DTAS game type for it. That would be neat.

 

[Vega-don]

gna gna gna

some people always prefer the old days and are never happy with the present

 

[Rasalom]

gna gna gna
some people always prefer the old days and are never happy with the present

Some people like me want 2.86 rav2 inf style. Old days is too strong since you can pick up a mutator and change it anytime. Maybe some people just "like" the old things more than the new ones.

When you say "give it a time" Long John I can agree with you, but If we had, IMO, a very
good game and it has becoming boring we should search the reason and change it. I noticed less and less players playing, if we wait more time to 2.9 shows itself less players will be around when the changes happen.
Dunno how much of the community thinks like that but take a look in the amount of players online in the last 2.86 days, 2.9 realease day and the present days I think more than 50% has something they don't like or some just don't care and don't play.

This thread is to say to both Sentry and the community : there are people that like old inf style and they want to play 2.9 in the old way too, can we find a way to make then happy? We don't want to see Sentry and all programer dying coding something for us,
we just want to know what can we all do to make the this part of the community happy.

 

[NTKB]

Well I must say DTAS was fun but 2.9 has its benefits too! I mean I didnt even know half the people in the community till now. And theres some good people out there! Not to mention ive actually played with people now who I have forumed with and it sorta changed my mind about some people.

Take for example Ice. I used to loath this guy, but ive played on his team before and we even worked together to complete objectives. But what really changed my mind about him was the commaradre. He TKed me once and his reply was "Dude im so sorry. Seriously."

I think the unifying effect 2.9 has had on the community and the new players who have joined have made up for the few short comings INF has now. I like the idea though of 9 rounds with only 1 life per round. Sure your gonna sit out alot more, but I guarentee people will value there lives alot more... plus with random spawns I think the game will have more flavor... For instance, sometimes in Mostar you spawn real close to the objective and sometimes real far. You get stiffed sometimes but other times you get a good position. This adds flavor. So what if sometimes the attackers spawn so close to the CD they get it before the defenders can prepare a defense ? Adds fun as everyone scrambles to cut them off...

So in my opinion we CAN have a random spawn, and use rounds with 1 life and the game will STILL kick ass and STILL unify the community... Lets try and keep everyone in the same camp please. :tup:

 

[[UMC]Hawkeye]

Rasaman,
I see what you mean, but I think its more of a game TYPE issue then different game STYLE issue. 2.9's movment, acttions, recoil, is great, IMO a step up from even RAv2. I think it might be EAS. Not that these nething wrong with EAS, its just that it quicky became so much of the same, die, respawn, goto where you died and kill the guy who got you, repeat. When you dont care as much about dying because you know you will respawn, one will tend to care less about what happens to them and about their team members.

And i think this might be an issue, becuase there are far far less people playing 2.9 now, then there were playing 2.86 back in 'the day'. And shouldnt this time be 2.9's prime?

 

[Vega-don]

yeah of course if you prefer RAv2 style you can play it.

but i think you only remember the good things about RAv2 and forget the bad things.

i remember all the crashes, hill bug , weird spawns , Hk69 strafing abuse, crap recoil , limited loadout system , flags that are impossible to catch , repetitive matches (playing 8rounds on the same map is realy stupid).
i hated how people new each map by heart and could bug abuse the maps to the death, now the maps are very complex and well made and cannot be abused , making the game more realist.

maybe you remember when you was owning with your HK69 and regret that the new maps layout dont allow as much HK69 owning as before , or that new weapons changed the balance of the game a bit , making the HK69 not the "1337 weapon" that it was before. remember that custom maps can add a new gameplay , and many are in the works.


and furthermore i think that the optimal settings for EAS respawns are not online already (c.a.d long respawn times ).

 

[yurch]

yeah of course if you prefer RAv2 style you can play it.

but i think you only remember the good things about RAv2 and forget the bad things.

i remember all the crashes, hill bug , weird spawns , Hk69 strafing abuse, crap recoil , limited loadout system , flags that are impossible to catch , repetitive matches (playing 8rounds on the same map is realy stupid).
i hated how people new each map by heart and could bug abuse the maps to the death, now the maps are very complex and well made and cannot be abused , making the game more realist.

maybe you remember when you was owning with your HK69 and regret that the new maps layout dont allow as much HK69 owning as before , or that new weapons changed the balance of the game a bit , making the HK69 not the "1337 weapon" that it was before. remember that custom maps can add a new gameplay , and many are in the works.

Half of those things have nothing to do with RAv2. The current 2.9 HK69 is more powerful than the RA one was, and it's easier to strafe with. The hillbug was part of all 2.86 games. Repetative matches are different now how, with standardized spawns? Map abuse has nothing to do with any mutator.

You're just listing irrelevant gripes about 2.86.

 

[Vega-don]

yes yurch , when i say RAV2 i say "2.86+RAv2" , meanings maps , game , and the mutie

 

[Rasalom]

maybe you remember when you was owning with your HK69 and regret that the new maps layout dont allow as much HK69 owning as before , or that new weapons changed the balance of the game a bit , making the HK69 not the "1337 weapon" that it was before. remember that custom maps can add a new gameplay , and many are in the works.

This is becoming too personal IMO Don, better we stop. You are taking this discussion to a bad path.

This post was never to bitch anything personal about difficulties/facilitys but gameplay.
Some players want the game TYPE (tks hawk) close to 2.86 and rav2 with new inf code (no leanbug, no this not that). Why is it so hard to understand some want to play the same game you play but in a different way? The servers will still be there, you just need to pick
one of you choice.