Why dropping church and not praying might have been a mistake...

[Zur]

Why dropping church and prayer might have been a mistake...

You might not know this or even care but it's been many years since I haven't been to church or even said a prayer. I'm not an atheist but I have my reasons. Also, I know what you might be thinking but read on.

I've been doing a lot of reading recently in things such as personal improvement. It's quite fascinating and obviously treads on psychology for some aspects. What a lot of it boils down to is that the subconscious mind has a lot of power, that it is possible to control what emotions we're having to make life easier and you just have to learn how it all works to benefit from it.

So, this got me thinking a bit about the fact that people before us in the preceding centuries didn't have all this science to tell us how we work and yet history tells us about many great achievements. Which leads me to ask why many of us are struggling today.

The idea that's slowly surfacing is that religion, prayers, mantras or whatever things of that nature that are practised on a personal level are a way to talk to our inside self. I'm not doubting the fact that there's a God out there but, by addressing a higher being, an individual might simply be talking to his subconsciousness to communicate his needs and desires. In other words, faith and prayer could put us in a sort of hypnotic state where doubt is absent and we somehow reprogram our unconsciouness over time to better reach our goals.

Now, you're probably going to tell me what a waste of space religion might be or how non-religious people do just as well as others. Well, you're probably right. But, if prayer or any other religious practise were done properly, who's to say it doesn't work ? If you're an atheist, that's going to be difficult to practise but what's stopping you having faith in yourself like bouddhists do ?

I thought I'd bring this up because on the rational side of things, I've made more progress in just a few weeks using EFT & TAT techniques than in the last ten years with classical approaches like therapy and medication. Using just simple words and gestures, it's possible to change the way you feel about yourself and lift mental blocks that have become a hindrance. It's subtle but the results are simply amazing.

 

[ambershee]

But surely if you sit down and learn how it works, you're also subconciously aware that you're trying to fool yourself, and thus it won't work anyway?

 

[Zur]

But surely if you sit down and learn how it works, you're also subconciously aware that you're trying to fool yourself, and thus it won't work anyway?

True and that's part of the paradox that is leading so many people astray. Trying to change your behaviour through thought, logic and discipline is the most difficult way to go about things. It's like a driver trying to use pure willpower to make his car perform better. It doesn't work that way and you actually have to get out of the car and have a look at the engine. When your subconscious mind is going one way and your conscious mind wants to go another, it creates an inside conflict which results in wasted energy. That's why many people just give up on things like dieting, giving up smoking and other behaviour changing. Sceptiscism is part of what's stopping a message getting through and that's where this faith, confidence or any form of assertiveness comes into the equation.

So, how could you go about it ? Well, the answer some people have come up with is to work with semantics and emotions combined with some little rituals. If you can trigger feelings to make your day better (instead of just believing that emotions just "happen") or imagine a symbol or person that embodies the way you want to act or be, these are tools which can be used to change more efficiently and you can combine this with some little techniques that help achieve a better internal balance between the left and right hemispheres of the brain.

Obviously, it doesn't work with the click of a finger but the more you train yourself, the easier it becomes. The trick is to avoid giving up so a new behaviour is gradually registered and is eventually performed effortlessly. If that doesn't make sense, just compare your first moments trying to drive a car and how easy driving a vehicle has become with time. The task is just as complex but what's changed is that most of the work is being done by the "crew" below deck .

 

[tool]

If you get into religion, just don't do the whole organized religion thing. That stuff is bad, and is only there to control people. Do it on your own terms, and however you feel like it, and you'll be fine.

 

[Alhanalem]

I have my beilefs and my faith but I dont think people should be slaves to it. Its when people become so devout that they corrupt themselves or others that it becomes problematic.

 

[Peavey]

Holistic cannabis FTW

 

[Zur]

If you get into religion, just don't do the whole organized religion thing. That stuff is bad, and is only there to control people. Do it on your own terms, and however you feel like it, and you'll be fine.

I can understand why you're saying this. The parents of one of my best friends used to be Jehovah's witnesses. He probably became an atheist because of the negative experience it turned out to be. Any religion is bad if the objective is control the masses.

It isn't a bad thing to enforce morals but it is bad to use a position as "spokesperson" to gain power of some sort. If I am right about religious practises being used in the way described, it's nothing short of a way to get into people's subconscience. And that has the potential for lots of abuse.

 

[Interbellum]

You might not know this or even care but it's been many years since I haven't been to church or even said a prayer. I'm not an atheist but I have my reasons.

**** dude, I always assumed you were a hard atheist. You seemed so... rational.

Anyway, like everything else, neurohacking can best be done straight & pure, without 'religion, prayers, mantras or whatever'; that's just dead weight.

And now...

I Show You the Door to Freedom!

P.s: that EFT/TAT stuff sounds interesting, I'll check it for potentially useful components.

 

[tool]

I can understand why you're saying this. The parents of one of my best friends used to be Jehovah's witnesses. He probably became an atheist because of the negative experience it turned out to be. Any religion is bad if the objective is control the masses.

It isn't a bad thing to enforce morals but it is bad to use a position as "spokesperson" to gain power of some sort. If I am right about religious practises being used in the way described, it's nothing short of a way to get into people's subconscience. And that has the potential for lots of abuse.

Yeah pretty much. Christian churches for example have gotten better, but that is only because of a lot of kicking and screaming on their part, until they finally come to accept that they need to get with the times. But seriously, christian churches have always been at the forefront of preaching hate and intolerance, but thats not surprising, they base everything on a book that revolves around it.

 

[Exus Tecius]

If you get into religion, just don't do the whole organized religion thing. That stuff is bad, and is only there to control people. Do it on your own terms, and however you feel like it, and you'll be fine.

:tup:

 

[Bi()ha2arD]

i dont think you can "reprogram" your subconsciousness just like that because in reality your subconsciousness is what is controlling your consciousness in the first place. so maybe you are thinking you are reprogramming your subconsciousness but its just your subconsciousness telling your consciousness that it should think its reprogramming your subconsciousness.

 

[Hazel.H]

If you get into religion, just don't do the whole organized religion thing. That stuff is bad, and is only there to control people. Do it on your own terms, and however you feel like it, and you'll be fine.

:tup: Simply taking a positive attitude to things in general can help, rather than being pessimistic. You don't have to be religious.

I have my beliefs and my faith but I don't think people should be slaves to it. Its when people become so devout that they corrupt themselves or others that it becomes problematic.

I experienced this first hand when I was growing up. People can get so controlling, judgemental and self-righteous that they think it justifies treating others like ****. The last time I went to church was with school when I was 14.

 

[Zur]

i dont think you can "reprogram" your subconsciousness just like that because in reality your subconsciousness is what is controlling your consciousness in the first place. so maybe you are thinking you are reprogramming your subconsciousness but its just your subconsciousness telling your consciousness that it should think its reprogramming your subconsciousness.

Recursive error loop ? Interesting idea.

 

[M.A.D.X.W]

Religion definitely doesn't help anyone, unless they believe it is helping them in which case it is. This is because humans are inheritably gullible and stupid,
All people are defined by their thought processes. What you believe is true, is true and what you believe is false, is false; because we each create our own reality subconsciously, sadly most people don't realize this and that's why every normal fool on the planet is pretty much the same person, influenced by other people, religion and other crap they think matters.

People never take full advantage of the lenience of the mind, the only thing stopping someone from having total control over themselves is a mental illness, so-called normal people have no reason to complain about trying to change - if you believe you can't change then you won't be able to, you have to realize you have almost total control. Obviously there is things that you can't change. But it doesn't matter anyway, once you know you are in control you won't really need to change anything. Humans are weird that way, they should be more like horse or rabbits.

 

[drakon]

I have my beilefs and my faith but I dont think people should be slaves to it. Its when people become so devout that they corrupt themselves or others that it becomes problematic.

I experienced this first hand when I was growing up. People can get so controlling, judgemental and self-righteous that they think it justifies treating others like ****.

Yeah, it's called fanaticism

 

[Interbellum]

Religion definitely doesn't help anyone, unless they believe it is helping them in which case it is.

Only in the short term, and on a very limited scale. Stupid little religious mindgames won't cure diseases or eliminate poverty, let alone abolish aging and take us to the stars. Only rationally applied science and technology can do that. Religion is at best a counterproductive distraction, though more often than not it is simply insanity unleashed.

People never take full advantage of the lenience of the mind, the only thing stopping someone from having total control over themselves is a mental illness, so-called normal people have no reason to complain about trying to change - if you believe you can't change then you won't be able to, you have to realize you have almost total control. Obviously there is things that you can't change.

Yes, little things like sickness, accidents & death...

But it doesn't matter anyway, once you know you are in control you won't really need to change anything. Humans are weird that way, they should be more like horse or rabbits.

Actually, we need to change everything, unless we want to continue living short, pointless, miserable lives (like horse and rabbits do). Only technology can bring salvation; without it, we're not even fully human.

 

[M.A.D.X.W]

Only in the short term, and on a very limited scale. Stupid little religious mindgames won't cure diseases or eliminate poverty, let alone abolish aging and take us to the stars. Only rationally applied science and technology can do that. Religion is at best a counterproductive distraction, though more often than not it is simply insanity unleashed.

Yep, but I mean for one person, some people are happy to be disillusioned by religion, and it actually helps them live their lives, in which case it is helping them by helping them and helping help.

Yes, little things like sickness, accidents & death...



Actually, we need to change everything, unless we want to continue living short, pointless, miserable lives (like horse and rabbits do). Only technology can bring salvation; without it, we're not even fully human.

I was only talking about peoples minds. I completely agree about the actual changing of things, it is the most important thing.
DO NOT DISRESPECT THE RABBIT FOR IT WILL BE MAD.

 

[Bersy]

Azura, I can agree with you in many aspects on this. The logical mind is really the antithesis of faith and it is sometimes difficult to reconcile the two.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

I can understand why you're saying this. The parents of one of my best friends used to be Jehovah's witnesses. He probably became an atheist because of the negative experience it turned out to be. Any religion is bad if the objective is control the masses.

It isn't a bad thing to enforce morals but it is bad to use a position as "spokesperson" to gain power of some sort. If I am right about religious practises being used in the way described, it's nothing short of a way to get into people's subconscience. And that has the potential for lots of abuse.

This is surely not the fault of organized religion, but people who abuse power. And, frankly, this isn't even limited to religion. Political leaders, motivational speakers, salespeople, etc are all guilty of doing this.

 

[Crotale]

Only in the short term, and on a very limited scale. Stupid little religious mindgames won't cure diseases or eliminate poverty, let alone abolish aging and take us to the stars. Only rationally applied science and technology can do that. Religion is at best a counterproductive distraction, though more often than not it is simply insanity unleashed.

While I would never presume to know whether of not "religion" can cure the common cold and bring about world peace, personal faith is another story. I am assuming, for argument's sake, that you are lumping faith and religion together. Let's talk faith here for a moment. Faith can do a lot of things for people who may feel ill, alone or even dying. The comfort that may come with faith can be very powerful. I would hope that you have heard the phrase, "the will to live"? This comes from faith; faith can give a person hope and resolve. When a person is on their deathbed, that faith can give them peace of mind so that they may either die with less strife or they may pull through. You'd be surprised how much a change in attitude has on our physiology. After all, there is a reason why we send sick people flowers and visit them in the hospital. And no, religion ain't it. But faith is. The kind of faith that gives a sick person hope.

Only technology can bring salvation; without it, we're not even fully human.

This is an illogical statement.

Yeah, it's called fanaticism

You get those types in every bunch, including atheism. Religion is no different, better or worse.

Yep, but I mean for one person, some people are happy to be disillusioned by religion, and it actually helps them live their lives, in which case it is helping them by helping them and helping help.

Faith is not always synonymous with "religion" although it can be a part of it. Faith does not have to mean you believe in a deity. Many religions simply acknowledge the existence of ourselves in this world and have little or nothing to do with flying spaghetti monsters.

Azura, I can agree with you in many aspects on this. The logical mind is really the antithesis of faith and it is sometimes difficult to reconcile the two.

Therein lies the reality and the dichotomy. For many persons, logic and faith are intertwined, and for others, the two must be kept separate to preclude a muddying of the respective waters. Most people I have known fall more into the latter than the former. Some of the most brilliant persons I've ever met fall into the former group. It is the person who understands and comprehends logic to be a matter of how the universe operates and that faith is what keeps us going is the one who is usually the most sane and put together mentally, physically and emotionally.