I...beg to differ, but then he played on a euro server, where XeneX was usually the one popping most heads. It was fun to see the two play on lavagiant. I remember rev saying 'xx owns me' once.
Ahh.. the old days.
Ahh.. the old days.
[UT2004] The return of the Sniper Rifle
- Thread starter Selerox
- Start date
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Yeah, I never got to see XX play due to him being euro.
I'm not saying rev was perfect, but he was pretty freaking good with that sr and the scary thing was that there were people that were even better.
I'm not saying rev was perfect, but he was pretty freaking good with that sr and the scary thing was that there were people that were even better.
The lower ROF (maybe not so much in 1v1) would make you think more about your shots, knowing a miss means you are without shot for longer then not.
In UT2K3, I've got time, after I notice a missed LTG shot, to pull shock, trace the bolt, and hit the "sniper" (and I use that term loosely) before he could fire it again. That would have been a pipe dream in UT.
I may post a link later, but you could search Cached.net for demos of Gitzzz in UT at the WCG vs Pain, or a couple others (there's also a 'best player you've ever met' thread in UT forums here about them, where PCB posted the demo info) and witness it happening. He litterally lays down suppressive sniper fire over top of the ASMD. No worry of bullet trace, or reload time. I wouldn't have a problem with it if there was something negative to comensate for, but there isn't. LTG is teh balance.
In UT2K3, I've got time, after I notice a missed LTG shot, to pull shock, trace the bolt, and hit the "sniper" (and I use that term loosely) before he could fire it again. That would have been a pipe dream in UT.
I may post a link later, but you could search Cached.net for demos of Gitzzz in UT at the WCG vs Pain, or a couple others (there's also a 'best player you've ever met' thread in UT forums here about them, where PCB posted the demo info) and witness it happening. He litterally lays down suppressive sniper fire over top of the ASMD. No worry of bullet trace, or reload time. I wouldn't have a problem with it if there was something negative to comensate for, but there isn't. LTG is teh balance.
Swift Viper
Long live Xmas Xan Mark III(By Hyrulian)
It sounds like some people are upset about the weapon (besides the 0.6 firerate and 67 damage) because someone is really good at it. I don't see why a weapon should be bashed if someone is very good at it, as the same could be said for every weapon. I wonder how fast exactly the new sniper rifle shoots, or what the smoke looks like.
No, I'm descent, but I'll tell it like this. I don't consider myself excessively good with the SR. I was an ASMD man. If, though, with a descent ping, I ran around with nothing but snipe, and mini, it was a slaughter. Close range, long range, it didn't matter.
Also, you could tell if someone was good or not by how many times they missed you. Problem was, sometimes you couldn't trace them to take them out. Esepcially if you didn't know the map like crazy good. They could suck, and it would still pay off.
Also, you could tell if someone was good or not by how many times they missed you. Problem was, sometimes you couldn't trace them to take them out. Esepcially if you didn't know the map like crazy good. They could suck, and it would still pay off.
The problem isn't that someone can get really good at the sr. The problem is that if you were good at the sr you could pretty much beat out anybody else with any other weapon. It was overpowered. None of the other weapons meant crap to the sr. In ut2k3 if you don't have lg skill you can still use other weapons and be able put up some competition. In ut1 if you didn't have the great aim with the sr you were screwed.
Sir_Brizz said:good gosh they need to get rid of those never ending citadel servers. I know that stupid map like the back of my hand.
And yes, Rev is MUCH worse than those people. Think seeing an enemy dot and being dead immediately followingand IMO he isn't nearly as good with the LG as he was with the SR, which stands to reason since it's ROF is lower.
"Enemy dot" is about right. At the range I was getting shot they were about 6 pixels big...at least I had the satisfaction of dropping a bunch of them a few times with the goo, including one double kill. 'Course that usually had me charging the goo, and heading for the health and BAM face first into an enemy turning the corner. At which point I let the goo fly and we both die from the 'splash' radius of the goo.
I also had a couple of 'nade kills after spawning which given how weak the main fire is made me feel fairly good. Still, I wish the damn map would at least reset instead of setting the cap limit so high. At least then the teams would refresh more often, even if the map is the same. (My biggest bitch with CTF-Citadel is the fact that there is almost no health at all on that map, and it respawns so damn sloooow.)The following night had me on (Low-G) CTF-Sandstorm and the LtG was the weapon of choice on that map, so I got some LtG practice/therapy after the previous nights raping. (Great game, ended in Overtime finally.)
IIRC, the Sniper only did something like 35 damage for a non-headshot, so it took at least 3 hits at 100 Health to kill. Throw in a little dodging and it was fairly easy to avoid the headshot/anyshot long enough to frag them at short range most of the time. If you had the sniper at short range if the first hit didn't kill, you usually were at the mercy of the other players skill level with their weapon in hand. (If they were fair you were dead....if they weren't you could have the Hammer in hand and probably have the same chance of coming out on top.) At long range suppressing fire, anti-sniping, and the trans were the easiest ways to counter a sniper.edhe said:
In terms of using the Sniper though, more than anything else accuracy was the key. Getting a headshot on a moving/dodging target wasn't easy especially if you were doing the same. (See also Insta-Gib)
I think compared to getting a headshot with the sniper, a combo is much easier to do, although I think it takes a bit more to learn. Since given the huge radius of the combo and it's instantaneus effect, all you have to do is get the ball in the general area and pop it. Just fire in the general area the enemy is heading and when the ball is close pop it. At short ranges it's almost impossible to counter or dodge. And if they have a timing rythm going you may never even get a single shot off. They don't even need to dodge much, and can probably take any minor damage you might do if they get you with the first ball.edhe said:
edhe said:
I think that consistently using shock combo's relies almost solely on personal skill, while using the sniper relies on your skill being greater than the targets skill.
In short if you suck at combo's, you'll never get much from them.
But if you are good, it takes a god-like player to counter you.
With a sniper, you can be decent with it even if you suck.
But if you are good, all it takes is a good opponent to counter you.
It's just that it's easier to be good with a Sniper, because being good with combo's requires more practice than just aiming. The rest is all in the map.
The general impossibility of training yourself to do moving combos makes it less lethal in UT1. The balls moved too fast and had such a tiny collision radius for the explosion, you couldn't just pull off a moving combo at will being a general player. And standing combos get you sniped most of the time.
Like he said though, moving combos take more skill. Anything that takes more skill is harder to do. There were only a few exceptional players in UT1, afaik, that were that good at them.
On the other hand, the sniper wasn't hard to master at all...unless you were Revs skill and higher...
Like he said though, moving combos take more skill. Anything that takes more skill is harder to do. There were only a few exceptional players in UT1, afaik, that were that good at them.
On the other hand, the sniper wasn't hard to master at all...unless you were Revs skill and higher...
[drunk]Ok, so I thought the shock was way more complex then snipe, and I think brizz will easily side with me on this, as well as ed.
Ed said it best, it's much more a 3d weapon. Snipe is point and shoot. Yea, you could be good with shock with out being hella precise, but to take out full shield belts with combos, you had to be on point. Touching people with the purple sphere in the middle style. It took skills. Less margin for error, but so much complexity.
Shock dueling was my thing, and the things I prided myself on....
Ed said it best, it's much more a 3d weapon. Snipe is point and shoot. Yea, you could be good with shock with out being hella precise, but to take out full shield belts with combos, you had to be on point. Touching people with the purple sphere in the middle style. It took skills. Less margin for error, but so much complexity.
Shock dueling was my thing, and the things I prided myself on....
- Alt to alt ball negation.
- Popping other peoples combos.
- Combo faking
- Moving combos.
- Prime fire combo countering.
Sir_Brizz said:
Tiny collision radius? Are you kidding? In UT that combo blast radius isn't small at all. In fact it feels much larger than the one in UT2k3, due to the smaller models in UT2k3. In UT2k3 I don't sweat it much when I find a combo-happy player, but in UT I start getting PO'ed. The faster ball is what makes the UT version so deadly. Spot an enemy and BAM he's combo'd you. In UT2k3 you can see it coming a mile away, although the cramped maps mean that often there is no place to dodge to. In UT it may take a bit more skill to place the ball, but I don't believe it is harder to hit since the UT2k3 ball is smaller but slower, while the UT one is larger but faster. And moving combo's aren't that hard, it's dodging and comboing that takes ninja skill. And It must just be me but whenever I run into a server with some clan level players it's usually combo-kill city...
Still even for a poor player who just stands still to pop combo's, its easier to get more frags that way than to run around or camp with a sniper. Just find a heavy traffic section of the map, and every so often spam a combo..instant frag half the time.
I think the ball/combo in UT was just a (flat) decal effect, so it may appear the thing is further/closer from you than it really is, so unless you work at watching the glow and not the ball it's easier to misjudge the distance in UT than UT2k3. Not wholly unlike the shock/IG where if you watched the 'beam' instead of knowing it was hitscan your aim would always be off slightly because your eyes are telling you something other than what the game is calculating.
[Aenubis] - Yeah, there are ways to counter the combo, but I've often found that thinking of the counter usually only occurs after you get combo'd...or you force your weapon selection/strategy based on the thought that your going to be countering combo's all the time. Mid battle countering is a opportunity thing, if you don't have the opportunity it's hard to get your self reset to do it mid battle. Which isn't terribly difficult in UT2k3, but was nigh impossible in UT.
Small collision radius: The tiny area that you had to pop the combo in with a primary shot. Combos were SIGNIFICANTLY harder to hit while moving because you had to nail almost the exact center. The UT2k3 shock balls pop from just about anywhere
Sir_Brizz said:Small collision radius: The tiny area that you had to pop the combo in with a primary shot. Combos were SIGNIFICANTLY harder to hit while moving because you had to nail almost the exact center. The UT2k3 shock balls pop from just about anywhere
Hmm, some quick and dirty testing shows this doesn't appear to be true. I have a strong hunch that ping/packet loss has more to do with getting the combo in that case. Especially given how damn fast that ball moves in UT....so that target gets small awfully fast.
Well, back on topic. You won't have to worry about the new sniper rifle being too powerful. In fact, even fully zoomed a head shot was harder to acheive than in UT2003.
Plus, the rate of fire is slower and the zoomed view becomes obstructed by smoke. And just in case an idiot llama creates a no smoke hack, the recoil of the sniper forces the player to take a few moments to focus.
I didn't experience too much trouble against the new sniper. It was easier to evade than the LG. But still, I hate that weapon because, from my experience, people who snipe well aren't good with any other weapon. It often leads me to believe that there is more going on than pure aiming skill.
I still think the LG and new SR needs to have a longer recharge time.
Plus, the rate of fire is slower and the zoomed view becomes obstructed by smoke. And just in case an idiot llama creates a no smoke hack, the recoil of the sniper forces the player to take a few moments to focus.
I didn't experience too much trouble against the new sniper. It was easier to evade than the LG. But still, I hate that weapon because, from my experience, people who snipe well aren't good with any other weapon. It often leads me to believe that there is more going on than pure aiming skill.
I still think the LG and new SR needs to have a longer recharge time.
A recoil will definatly help. What is it that makes the Sniper easier to evade though?
I think part of the problem is that we need exact numbers. They say the sniper fires faster, but what are the specifics. Is the reload 1 or 1.75 or .5 that makes a big difference.
I think part of the problem is that we need exact numbers. They say the sniper fires faster, but what are the specifics. Is the reload 1 or 1.75 or .5 that makes a big difference.
I'm not sure who is stating the sniper rifle fires faster, but from what I've seen...it isn't faster.