[UK Election] Who are you going to vote for?

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Who are you going to vote for?

  • Labour

    Votes: 1 2.3%
  • Conservative

    Votes: 7 15.9%
  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 19 43.2%
  • Other

    Votes: 3 6.8%
  • Don't Know

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Rather Not Say

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Not Voting (fool!)

    Votes: 14 31.8%

  • Total voters
    44

psb154

RatThing
Apr 29, 2005
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British involvement with the Iraq war.

Tony Blair is credited with taking the Brits into war with America against
Iraq. The common arguments against the Government regarding the Iraq war is that
they were not completely truthful regarding the reasons for getting envoloved
with this conflict even if the conflict was legal.

I believe there are other reasons for getting involved with the conflict that
the media seem to have overlooked.

Remeber that the mantra from the American government was that terrorism of any
kind would not be tolerated. Iraq financed and protected terrorists therefore
the conflict was justified was, at least one of the arguments.

Britain's main land has a bloody history because of terrorism. The Irish
Republican Army bombed Britain and killed British. They could not be stopped
regardless of the relatively mighty power of the British military forces.

Terrorists require a network of support. Terrorists will succeed if they can
commit their actions and then disappear quickly. To do that they need people who
are preared to help. In addition they need a steady stream of money in
order to purchase effective weapons to fight a government's military
forces. Americans supplied that network and much of that money, millions
of dollars.

Take a walk through Boston MA, near the Gillette factory. You will find IRA
murals painted on building walls. Anti-British graffiti written in letters that
were not written in a few minutes. These messages were clearly painted with the
cooperation of the authorities.

The country that Britain was about to go to war with was part of the IRA's
terrorist network and were responsible for financing the terrorists that
murdered thousands of Britain's citizens. Many of IRA's leaders enjoyed the
hospitality of the American Whitehouse.

The current New Labor British Government above all else, are, in my opinion:
very clever. They are what I call "Master Chess Players".

The American mantra "terrorism of any kind would not be tolerated" must have
immediately rung some bells. If Britain could shut down the IRA's
American-support network then and only then would the IRA-British peace talks
have a new urgent agenda.

The British government would, in my opinion have told the American government
that they would get the complete support of the British government if they could
promise to shut down the IRA's America support network.

Once the network had been choaked, if not completely shutdown the IRA would have
found themselves with a cash flow problem. Their organisation would have become
dependent on this financial input stream and would now have to find other ways
of financing their organisation.

The IRA have been blamed for the robbery of £26.5 million from the Northern Bank
in Belfast.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4281547.stm
 

O.S.T

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Nov 10, 2002
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psb154 said:
Terrorists will succeed if they can
commit their actions and then disappear quickly.
I think it's worse that politicians can commit their actions and then stay for years
 

Sam_The_Man

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Mar 26, 2000
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Balton said:
^nutcase ahead!

Actually he makes a very good point. The IRA have killed hundreds of British people, but they're romanticized and funded in America, at least compared to Al-Qaeda. What's more, while the Troubles were going on, even when they almost took out the Prime Minister we didn't get anti-terrorism bills or ID cards, at least on the mainland.

Of course, the PM in question was the Iron Lady. If a bomb exploded in the same city as Blair, let alone the same hotel, we'd probably get put under martial law.

If Al-Qaeda want to win acceptance from the West, they would be well-advised to paint themselves white and conjure up a few romantic stereotypes of friendly drunks with musical accents. Who knows? In time we might have a 'Mohammed Day' in the same vein as St Patrick's Day, when everyone wears black, drinks arak in the local theme pub and donates to Hizbollah.
 
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DedMeat

Dapper Rat
May 9, 2000
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Sam_The_Man said:
Actually he makes a very good point...

Huh? Blair gave his support to the Iraq war in return for the US government "shutting down the IRA's America support network"? Hardly. I doubt the US government could shut down pro-IRA fundraising in America even if they wanted to.
 

Sam_The_Man

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Mar 26, 2000
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DedMeat said:
Huh? Blair gave his support to the Iraq war in return for the US government "shutting down the IRA's America support network"? Hardly. I doubt the US government could shut down pro-IRA fundraising in America even if they wanted to.

Not so much that part, just that it's worth continually reminding people that the IRA, unlike Al-Qaeda, have a large organized network in the UK, have a legal political party, make millions from organized crime, have been operating for years, and have killed hundreds of British citizens on British soil, yet it's Al-Qaeda's name under which we're told to vote Labour and support authoritarian legislation.
 

anaemic

she touch your penis?
Jan 7, 2002
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the ira are romanticised and supported because the british ARE the ones in the wrong, we divided their country, we played their people off each other, and we alone profited off the deaths and thousands of innocent people
 

edhe

..dadhe..
Jun 12, 2000
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www.clanci.net
*cough* English did it...

nice one! :rolleyes:

And they're supported because the people who donate to them are ****wits supporting murderous violence :tup:

IRA was/is funded exclusively from the US via Sinn Fein's persuasion to irish expats/descendants. Of course they probably don't realise what they were contributing too.
 

Selerox

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Nov 12, 1999
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Lock and loaded.

anaemic said:
the ira are romanticised and supported because the british ARE the ones in the wrong, we divided their country, we played their people off each other, and we alone profited off the deaths and thousands of innocent people

You seem to be forgetting that the majority of Ulster is Unionist. Should the UK ever agree to an Irish reunification, then the Republic and the UK will end up facing the wrath of the Loyalist paramillitaries. We can't win.
 

Sam_The_Man

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Mar 26, 2000
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anaemic said:
the ira are romanticised and supported because the british ARE the ones in the wrong, we divided their country, we played their people off each other, and we alone profited off the deaths and thousands of innocent people

Who cares? Was that McCartney guy profiting off the deaths of thousands of innocent people?

If this is about history, then when does it end? Because history isn't going to change.
 

MetalMickey

Banned
Jul 30, 2000
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In time we might have a 'Mohammed Day' in the same vein as St Patrick's Day, when everyone wears black, drinks arak in the local theme pub and donates to Hizbollah.
Thats twice Ive seen you make reference to a link between St Patricks Day and the IRA. I think you are confused. St Patricks Day has nothing to do with militant nationalism, and never has, not even in the north.
 

_Zd_Phoenix_

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May 1, 2001
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psb154 said:
The country that Britain was about to go to war with was part of the IRA's terrorist network and were responsible for financing the terrorists that murdered thousands of Britain's citizens. Many of IRA's leaders enjoyed the hospitality of the American Whitehouse.


Yay we should invade america! They really have WMD too! :)
 

togmkn

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Jun 9, 2004
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Being a certified American, I didn't know that the UK was holding an election due to the fact that I am culturally uneducated. :) jk, but I'm assuming the liberal democrat is the best candidate, just like they are in the States.
 

_Zd_Phoenix_

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liberal democrats of the UK are nothing like the democrats of america, because is general they are actually liberal.

btw, going back to what anae said about the english starting the irish conflict...

although it's true (scotland was involved but no one seems to have problems with them) we're talking centuries ago here...and Ireland as a state was given back in 1921...the most unionist counties staying with the united kingdom.

Seems fair enough to me, and even if people do havge some problem with it, it isn't gross oppression, I don't see why people need to kill others to make a point about things.

The IRA may be romanticised for a certain reason but 'you started it' really isn't enough to justify anything the IRA have ever done.
 

Sam_The_Man

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togmkn said:
Being a certified American, I didn't know that the UK was holding an election due to the fact that I am culturally uneducated. :) jk, but I'm assuming the liberal democrat is the best candidate, just like they are in the States.

Er, you don't HAVE a Liberal Democrat party.

The Liberal Democrats are an ideological left-wing party, as opposed to Labour which is (or was) left-wing because it's bankrolled by the trade unions, and is mainly concerned with increasing the size of the state rather than making people - of any class - better off. Nothing of the kind exists in the US. The Democrats are closest to the Lib Dems, but as they're a 'mainstream' party with all the ideological inconsistency and vested interests that implies, they're far closer to Labour.

You may be thinking of the Libertarian party, but the similarity only extends to the first five letters of their name and their social liberalism.

God I wish we had a Libertarian party in Britain. Even if it got one vote (mine), at least it would be there, and saying who I voted for and why I did so wouldn't take upwards of an hour while I explain why I voted Lib Dem even though I vehemently disagree with them on every fundamental issue of their manifesto but two.

*edit*

You probably did mean the Democrats rather than the Libertarians :). Still, the original points apply. The British political system is a strange mix between the chaos of the European system and the pointlessness of the American system.
 
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togmkn

tog-em-kay-en
Jun 9, 2004
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Er, you don't HAVE a Liberal Democrat party.
Well yeah, but by that I mean having liberal views as opposed to conservative ones, and being a Democrat instead of a Republican.
the similarity only extends to the first five letters of their name
lol
As for "pointlessness of the American system," ever since The Dubya has been around, you shouldn't consider it "pointlessness" as much as it is "progressless," and once you have it phrased that way you can see how it is in a way "uneventfulness," and since you've come this far, you may as well dub it "harmless." You see my logic? Ah, well, only the most intelligent amongst us do.
 
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Sam_The_Man

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togmkn said:
As for "pointlessness of the American system," ever since The Dubya has been around, you shouldn't consider it "pointlessness" as much as it is "progressless," and once you have it phrased that way you can see how it is in a way "uneventfulness," and since you've come this far, you may as well dub it "harmless." You see my logic? Ah, well, only the most intelligent amongst us do.

By pointless I mean that one party is socially liberal and economically authoritarian, and one party is socially authoritarian and economically liberal. So you get pretty much the same amount of crap either way. Additionally, the third parties have far less hope of achieving power compared to our Liberal Democrats, and there are far less swing voters in the UK than in the US.
 

MetalMickey

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_Zd_Phoenix_ said:
...and Ireland as a state was given back in 1921...the most unionist counties staying with the united kingdom.
Actually, 3 of the six counties kept in the union had catholic majorities.

_Zd_Phoenix_ said:
Seems fair enough to me, and even if people do havge some problem with it, it isn't gross oppression, I don't see why people need to kill others to make a point about things.
Actually, it was gross oppression. The Catholic minority in the north were left with zero representation in the Stormont Parliament via gerrymandering, had no access to housing and were forced to live in slums, were grossly overrepresented in the unemployment figures, and were preyed upon by viscous state-supported loyalist deathsquads like the B-Specials. The official IRA grew up as a response to the fact that the states security forces were openly hostile to the catholics.

While none of that excuses the Provisionals despicable actions in slaughtering women and children in supermarkets 10-20 years later, some historical context needs to be applied.