this is all very nice but you forget inf is not exactly a team game right now. In order for any of these ideas to make an sence there would first have to be some goals.
Team-Based Loadout Restriction Brainstorming
- Thread starter SoSilencer
- Start date
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The big problem I have with the voting / money systems is that at the beginning of each map you have to spend time setting up the teams weapons, amma. This I feel could be infuriating to those of us wanting a quick couple of games and newbies, who don't know the weapons to well. Hence I like the apove system.
A slight modification could be before entering each map, the server could load up a generic armory, where each team enters, collects what they want and goes to a departure area (thereby symbolising their "ready" state) I also think that there should be say a 90 second time limit to collect your stuff. This obviously would take time, but imho it would be better than working with tables etc.
Eid
Skills and ammo
This I am sure would take up a LOT of work, but could tie together a couple of threads nicely:
The idea of skills has been batted around a few times, I like this idea, especially if combined with collecting of skill points. I.E. I can practice with a weapon and not only do I really improve, but also say it stops wavering so much.
Peoples procifiency (sp) with say sniper rifles would automatically designate them the team sniper (snipers) where as those who were new to the game, online would be assigned say a machine gun.
This would encourage people to practice and become specialised with their favourite weapon (there by increasing the chances of them getting it) Another benefit of this as an idea would be that the server would be making the initial decisions so no waiting around.
Feel free to add, expand, throw out
Eid
This I am sure would take up a LOT of work, but could tie together a couple of threads nicely:
The idea of skills has been batted around a few times, I like this idea, especially if combined with collecting of skill points. I.E. I can practice with a weapon and not only do I really improve, but also say it stops wavering so much.
Peoples procifiency (sp) with say sniper rifles would automatically designate them the team sniper (snipers) where as those who were new to the game, online would be assigned say a machine gun.
This would encourage people to practice and become specialised with their favourite weapon (there by increasing the chances of them getting it) Another benefit of this as an idea would be that the server would be making the initial decisions so no waiting around.
Feel free to add, expand, throw out
Eid
ff
Btw, this idea is already implemented in INFWAR, with the 4K assumed to be the average cost per team player. The way it'll be setup is that clan members ask for what they want, war arrangers evaluate the demand and the supply (the resrouce points (RPs) they got from owning maps that round) and decide what to actually give them. The way RPs work is that every clan is hard pressed to fully provide for his clan each turn That's based off of the 4K assumption.
In fact, if a clan is VERY hard pressed, they will have to go fight with pistols, LOL.
Oh, Mercenaries can buy whatever they want based on how much they get paid for their contracts (this is INFWAR's way of involving the individual, not just the clan). It's up to the Merc to negotiate the contract in his favor. When a Merc "dies" on the field, they lose some cash, so Mercs will hopefully be handicapped a bit as well.
So if you want to play with this already in place, join the INFWAR
Damodred
Btw, this idea is already implemented in INFWAR, with the 4K assumed to be the average cost per team player. The way it'll be setup is that clan members ask for what they want, war arrangers evaluate the demand and the supply (the resrouce points (RPs) they got from owning maps that round) and decide what to actually give them. The way RPs work is that every clan is hard pressed to fully provide for his clan each turn
That's based off of the 4K assumption.In fact, if a clan is VERY hard pressed, they will have to go fight with pistols, LOL.
Oh, Mercenaries can buy whatever they want based on how much they get paid for their contracts (this is INFWAR's way of involving the individual, not just the clan). It's up to the Merc to negotiate the contract in his favor. When a Merc "dies" on the field, they lose some cash, so Mercs will hopefully be handicapped a bit as well.
So if you want to play with this already in place, join the INFWAR
Damodred
One thing about realistic prices : they are not static. Prices do changes over time, and not everyone do buy weapons from the manufacturer. When you deal with arms merchants, the price they offer you may vary a lot, from very expensive to very cheap, depending on how much they have, how easily they can get them (stolen, special deals with manufacturer, access to a large stockpile somewhere) , how much they like you etc... I don't think varying prices are unrealistic, especially if the guys you play could be mercs...
I keep going back and forth between the two. I was leaning towards the 3 round rotation because that would be the most fair and we wouldn't have to mess with any values which would compromise the realism.
Now I'm starting to lean back more towards the team-based donation setup. It really would be a benefit if players have like 60 seconds at the start to determine who got what weapons and who was filling what roles. I was thinking it would be bad to have a delay between each round, but would it really? 30-60 seconds between each round when players determine what weapons they have would be a great opprotunity to discuss tactics and stuff. Perhaps slowing things down by having a 30-60 pause between rounds wouldn't be so bad after all. And of course, this could all be optional. That way there could be servers dedicated to quick action where you can go if you only have a few minutes. For when you have a longer time to play and want to get into it more than you could find a server running the team loadout mode.
It would also have the benefit of rewarding a well organized team who doesn't fight. The teams who fight over their weapons and argue amongst themselves would be wasting time while the team where everybody immediately knew their role and took the proper weapons would have a little time to talk about strategy.
Now I'm starting to lean back more towards the team-based donation setup. It really would be a benefit if players have like 60 seconds at the start to determine who got what weapons and who was filling what roles. I was thinking it would be bad to have a delay between each round, but would it really? 30-60 seconds between each round when players determine what weapons they have would be a great opprotunity to discuss tactics and stuff. Perhaps slowing things down by having a 30-60 pause between rounds wouldn't be so bad after all. And of course, this could all be optional. That way there could be servers dedicated to quick action where you can go if you only have a few minutes. For when you have a longer time to play and want to get into it more than you could find a server running the team loadout mode.
It would also have the benefit of rewarding a well organized team who doesn't fight. The teams who fight over their weapons and argue amongst themselves would be wasting time while the team where everybody immediately knew their role and took the proper weapons would have a little time to talk about strategy.
SoSilencer
*A round of Applouse from everyone here*
for starting this posting
I have one problem though, The Idea of having random weapons wont work. The idea of Inf in most cases is to specialise in one or two weapons, so you can get a high familliararity with them (rate or Fire/clip size/bulk/attachments/recoil) and makeing this random with realy make players annoyed alot of the time if they are spec in weapons they never seem to get. There is another problem in TK's of those immature players that would rather TK to get the gun than wait. And lastly I personally have not got a single Loadout that is came with the game, each has been heavilly modifyed to custom fit my game style and each map ( I have currently 17 loadouts) and so i see that generric loadouts wont work with the Inf community.
The giveing lending money suggestion is brilliant, seeing I have seen soldiers with just Desert Eagle's and I wouldnt mind one bit to use my Berreta Loadout in a small map to help out Newbies. just aslong as the cover my mind you.
The greater oppertunity to co-ordinate weaponry and therefore teams, then then even team tactic's is well woth it, even if we would be doing this for 30-90 sec's between rounds.
And we would have this system on nominated Public servers for those people that enjoy teamplay and this system.
and can I ask what is Inf War? DredDamo can you tell me?
The Idea of a first come system is totally out of the question in my opinion. slower comp's cant ever get into a map first and will therefore never get what they want.
*A round of Applouse from everyone here*
for starting this posting
I have one problem though, The Idea of having random weapons wont work. The idea of Inf in most cases is to specialise in one or two weapons, so you can get a high familliararity with them (rate or Fire/clip size/bulk/attachments/recoil) and makeing this random with realy make players annoyed alot of the time if they are spec in weapons they never seem to get. There is another problem in TK's of those immature players that would rather TK to get the gun than wait. And lastly I personally have not got a single Loadout that is came with the game, each has been heavilly modifyed to custom fit my game style and each map ( I have currently 17 loadouts) and so i see that generric loadouts wont work with the Inf community.
The giveing lending money suggestion is brilliant, seeing I have seen soldiers with just Desert Eagle's and I wouldnt mind one bit to use my Berreta Loadout in a small map to help out Newbies. just aslong as the cover my mind you.
The greater oppertunity to co-ordinate weaponry and therefore teams, then then even team tactic's is well woth it, even if we would be doing this for 30-90 sec's between rounds.
And we would have this system on nominated Public servers for those people that enjoy teamplay and this system.
and can I ask what is Inf War? DredDamo can you tell me?
The Idea of a first come system is totally out of the question in my opinion. slower comp's cant ever get into a map first and will therefore never get what they want.
It also wouldn't be random. You would still select your own weapons, the difference would be you would only have a certain pool to choose from. A map might have for example two fully loaded m16's, two mp5, four sigs, two ak's, and a small amount of other weapons. You would still choose which of those weapons you wanted. If somebody happened to beat you to it they would get that weapon for like 3 rounds, but after that you would have priority. What this means is that even if they try to take it again, you can 'steal' it back from them because they already had their turn with it. This would promote players to practice with a variety of weapons. Everybody would still have their own personal favorites and would try to take those but the players who spent a little time and got somewhat familiar with a few other weapons would be much better off than those who can ONLY use one weapon.
As far as TK's go that has me a little worried too. I've had somebody turn around and shoot me with a shotgun because "you were following too close to me". This is like 5 seconds into the game mind you, on Sicily, when there really aren't many paths to choose from for the first few seconds. I think though that it will be handled like most TK situations. If somebody does it once or twice everyone get's mad, if they keep doing it everyone get's even. Also once I can get a few more people to help out with the IHL we will all have a place to play where we don't need to worry about morons like that.
I think you misunderstood about the loadouts. They wouldn't be set loadouts, just set weapons and items. When a map starts you wouldn't select from a list of loadouts, you would put together your own loadout from a pool of available weapons and items. Essentially you would build your loadouts on the fly as needed for the situation. The difference with this is the pool of items you have to choose from is the same as the rest of the team. If there are 3 mp5's, 3 people can add an mp5 to their loadout and after that they are all out, nobody else can select one (note that this is where the priority would come in, so that the people who didn't get it these rounds have priority for the next rounds).
The first come first serve system isn't a problem at all. The people on slower computers may not get what they want for the first few rounds of a map, but since they didn't get the item this time they get priority for that weapon the next round. So halfway through the map the people with slower systems get the "first choice" and you don't end up with a system where slower systems are at a disadvantage. All that would happen with this is the faster systems get the weapons they want the first half of the map, the slower systems get what they want the second half.
As far as TK's go that has me a little worried too. I've had somebody turn around and shoot me with a shotgun because "you were following too close to me". This is like 5 seconds into the game mind you, on Sicily, when there really aren't many paths to choose from for the first few seconds. I think though that it will be handled like most TK situations. If somebody does it once or twice everyone get's mad, if they keep doing it everyone get's even. Also once I can get a few more people to help out with the IHL we will all have a place to play where we don't need to worry about morons like that.
I think you misunderstood about the loadouts. They wouldn't be set loadouts, just set weapons and items. When a map starts you wouldn't select from a list of loadouts, you would put together your own loadout from a pool of available weapons and items. Essentially you would build your loadouts on the fly as needed for the situation. The difference with this is the pool of items you have to choose from is the same as the rest of the team. If there are 3 mp5's, 3 people can add an mp5 to their loadout and after that they are all out, nobody else can select one (note that this is where the priority would come in, so that the people who didn't get it these rounds have priority for the next rounds).
The first come first serve system isn't a problem at all. The people on slower computers may not get what they want for the first few rounds of a map, but since they didn't get the item this time they get priority for that weapon the next round. So halfway through the map the people with slower systems get the "first choice" and you don't end up with a system where slower systems are at a disadvantage. All that would happen with this is the faster systems get the weapons they want the first half of the map, the slower systems get what they want the second half.
SoSilencer
sombody actually Team Killed you for following to close, what an Idiot, I've seen you play and i deffenatly wouldnt mind you backing me up. Im also an avid user of the backing up system, and have been lucky enuff to never have been tk'd for that.
anyway to the thread...
what happens if a newbie turns up say 4 rounds in?
someone thats only just started Inf online and has only practiced on one weapon before. is he left with just a Berreta and a couple of clips? Im saying this because I always comeinto maps near the end, and up untill 4weeks ago this was my situreation.
and this also brings up the point of people comeing in after the weapons have already been handed out with nothing left for a new soldier entering. And say that ok there's a shotty left over, but hay No clips... what happens here? also what if the servers only got 6 people playing on it? there would be a mass of weaponry around... or if the servers totally pacted (the only servers i play on) will their be a shortidge of armanents? or even what if the maper or server didnt put in enuff or a good enuff selection of arm's?
this is why I think the money lending Idea works in all siturations, even a player coming in late will still have enuff money to buy a decent loud out... ok it wont be a PSG1 but it should be enuff for a the soldier to survive untill he/she can pick up somthing better of the dead each round...
just a note my most common load outs all come in under 4k. and i find that one weapon wit a couple of clips serves me fine. ok Im aiming for speed but even with two sometimes one clip, I never run out, before I can liberate weaponry off the enemys dead.
ok I see problems with people hoarding and being Tk'd or Tk'ing but the one thing I would like to see is, this set up on servers that cater for this team style of play. Im sure that people would enjoy it alot. but It wouldnt over shadow the normal game style and I would hate to see this on every server. hay why arnt there servers that state they are for team playing? or are they at the bottom of my list at the pings so high I wouldnt even consider using them for ping-pong....
there may be one way of dealing with Tk'ing or hoarding in the 4k version... thats simply never give them any money to help out with their loadouts... they cant hoard what they dont have right?
im sorry for the possable bad tone of the start of this posting, espessially after the appluse...
sombody actually Team Killed you for following to close, what an Idiot, I've seen you play and i deffenatly wouldnt mind you backing me up. Im also an avid user of the backing up system, and have been lucky enuff to never have been tk'd for that.
anyway to the thread...
what happens if a newbie turns up say 4 rounds in?
someone thats only just started Inf online and has only practiced on one weapon before. is he left with just a Berreta and a couple of clips? Im saying this because I always comeinto maps near the end, and up untill 4weeks ago this was my situreation.
and this also brings up the point of people comeing in after the weapons have already been handed out with nothing left for a new soldier entering. And say that ok there's a shotty left over, but hay No clips... what happens here? also what if the servers only got 6 people playing on it? there would be a mass of weaponry around... or if the servers totally pacted (the only servers i play on) will their be a shortidge of armanents? or even what if the maper or server didnt put in enuff or a good enuff selection of arm's?
this is why I think the money lending Idea works in all siturations, even a player coming in late will still have enuff money to buy a decent loud out... ok it wont be a PSG1 but it should be enuff for a the soldier to survive untill he/she can pick up somthing better of the dead each round...
just a note my most common load outs all come in under 4k. and i find that one weapon wit a couple of clips serves me fine. ok Im aiming for speed but even with two sometimes one clip, I never run out, before I can liberate weaponry off the enemys dead.
ok I see problems with people hoarding and being Tk'd or Tk'ing but the one thing I would like to see is, this set up on servers that cater for this team style of play. Im sure that people would enjoy it alot. but It wouldnt over shadow the normal game style and I would hate to see this on every server. hay why arnt there servers that state they are for team playing? or are they at the bottom of my list at the pings so high I wouldnt even consider using them for ping-pong....
there may be one way of dealing with Tk'ing or hoarding in the 4k version... thats simply never give them any money to help out with their loadouts... they cant hoard what they dont have right?
im sorry for the possable bad tone of the start of this posting, espessially after the appluse...
Unfortunately many people don't like how I announce their cheap bug exploitations, and many times I get tk'ed for this.
I hadn't thought of the newbie situation, since it would suck to join up and be forced with a crappy weapon. However, the next map they would have a higher priority. Basically the only people who would be really effected would be those who don't even give the game a chance, the ones who only play 3 rounds and say "this sucks". Personally, I don't really care if those people leave since it's doubtful they would add anything to the community anyways.
When server admins select the available weapons and items for each map they could be required to select 2 'inexhaustable' weapons. These would never run out, so that even if a team took all the other items leaving nothing for the last person they would still be able to take one or both of these weapons and all the ammo they needed for it.
Yeah I can see how low player servers running the 3 round rotation system could have problems. Perhaps it could be based on percentages? Like 20% shotguns would mean there would be one shotgun for every 5 people. That way if there are less people there are less weapons, but the overall ratio stays the same.
The money system is still good too, but I'm worried that might be too complex to start out. You go from loadouts you've previously defined to having to buy your own weapons each game, and for the more expensive ones you need to barter and trade with your teammates. I don't think many people would like that, though then again if this was a server option people who didn't like that could play like normal.
I hadn't thought of the newbie situation, since it would suck to join up and be forced with a crappy weapon. However, the next map they would have a higher priority. Basically the only people who would be really effected would be those who don't even give the game a chance, the ones who only play 3 rounds and say "this sucks". Personally, I don't really care if those people leave since it's doubtful they would add anything to the community anyways.
When server admins select the available weapons and items for each map they could be required to select 2 'inexhaustable' weapons. These would never run out, so that even if a team took all the other items leaving nothing for the last person they would still be able to take one or both of these weapons and all the ammo they needed for it.
Yeah I can see how low player servers running the 3 round rotation system could have problems. Perhaps it could be based on percentages? Like 20% shotguns would mean there would be one shotgun for every 5 people. That way if there are less people there are less weapons, but the overall ratio stays the same.
The money system is still good too, but I'm worried that might be too complex to start out. You go from loadouts you've previously defined to having to buy your own weapons each game, and for the more expensive ones you need to barter and trade with your teammates. I don't think many people would like that, though then again if this was a server option people who didn't like that could play like normal.
i was thinking of both sugestions as a a server side option... having them as a madatory system would change the game too much and make to much work for the great people who donate their free time to this already great game
i think sosilencers idea is best
i also think the default camos should be locked in place for this type of play if there going this far for a balanced game they might as well go the extra 10 percent w/the balanced camos while there at it
also in the browser where you can select ping/servers/etc. where it sorts the servers it should also have a mutators so you can see if it has the balanced teams mutator or inflite,pistols only etc
i dont like the money idea and i agree w/the percentage suggestion that would be fair
how would this handle attachments though?
does everyone pick there weapon,then secondary weapon,then attachments,etc
or does someone say pick there weapon attachment/attachments clips and then the next person picks there weapon attachment/attachements clips??
also would this be a bigger project then the actual infiltration game?
i also think the default camos should be locked in place for this type of play if there going this far for a balanced game they might as well go the extra 10 percent w/the balanced camos while there at it
also in the browser where you can select ping/servers/etc. where it sorts the servers it should also have a mutators so you can see if it has the balanced teams mutator or inflite,pistols only etc
i dont like the money idea and i agree w/the percentage suggestion that would be fair
how would this handle attachments though?
does everyone pick there weapon,then secondary weapon,then attachments,etc
or does someone say pick there weapon attachment/attachments clips and then the next person picks there weapon attachment/attachements clips??
also would this be a bigger project then the actual infiltration game?
Re: ff
Aaah Great
...i'll be most wanted Merc. around... "hire Aequi, he only wants a few frags and 4 clips for his DE, who care if he dies!" *LoL* ok, maybe not
Originally posted by DredDamo
Oh, Mercenaries can buy whatever they want based on how much they get paid for their contracts (this is INFWAR's way of involving the individual, not just the clan). It's up to the Merc to negotiate the contract in his favor. When a Merc "dies" on the field, they lose some cash, so Mercs will hopefully be handicapped a bit as well.
So if you want to play with this already in place, join the INFWAR
Damodred
Aaah Great
...i'll be most wanted Merc. around... "hire Aequi, he only wants a few frags and 4 clips for his DE, who care if he dies!" *LoL* ok, maybe not