So what has happened to the modding community??

[MonsOlympus]

Yeah I guess you could argue since they dont own the game then they arnt bound by the EULA but they are still profiting from hosting mods, patches and all other associated stuff. Like if they can make money off a mod I make for free and cant by law charge for it does make you wonder, that was what I was saying about double standards.

I guess I can put a license in my mod to say not to be hosted on any site that has ads or do not redistribute without consent, I think Epic and places like Fileplanet have a much better chance of backing up their contracts with lawyers then the average modder.

In one way I could see it being like someone saying, oh yes only the publisher makes money on games the developers get nothing under contract.

See Im not talking about selling mods as such but being able to get some form of donations going much in the creative fiasco mentioned above. A server host can put an ad on a server and on their site even if they are running your mod yet if you are the mod maker you cant use ads to pay for hosting or servers? Its not actually paying for the mod development but support, thats where donations should go but I think people have such a strict view on what should and should not be done its hurting mods alittle.

 

[Benfica]

I never said (or intended to say) that modders can take the initiative or do this without Epic approval. I said that Epic could consider the possibility, and if so, then would be in control. No paypal, no Google ads, no content distribution via Steam, fine. No homepage, no clue. If none, everything would stay the same. But if one or more of these were allowed, then modders will benefit. So it's basically staying the same or being better. And see it as a whole, split in parts, which ones are possible, consider carefully what would it take to make any of them work, search the net for details, ask Epic, etc...

Sorry I may sound like a jerk, but I don't feel the need to argue and defend something against the ones that could benefit from it.

 

[Cliffy_A]

So what has happened to the modding community??

Of course, it has nothing to do with the fact that the game sucks arse through a straw, no, nothing to do with it at all.

//Sticks head back in the sand

Come on, UT3's a Turd, everyone knows it, it's common knowledge, take a look at the servers.

 

[NeoNite]

^ That's no way to contribute, and if that's the course you plan on following I suggest you go someplace else.

 

[Vitamin-Carrot]

Of course, it has nothing to do with the fact that the game sucks arse through a straw, no, nothing to do with it at all.

//Sticks head back in the sand

Come on, UT3's a Turd, everyone knows it, it's common knowledge, take a look at the servers.

Dude ... seriously go make yourself a hot cup of tea and relax...
If you dont like ut3 that much dont post in these forums

 

[Vlad]

I've been watching this thread with some interest. Personally, I point my finger at how much the game has changed and the difficulty level as the main reason for the lack of true mods. Level editing or creation aside, there are quite a few holes Epic left to UT3 compared to previous versions, when it comes to creating a true mod.

As a prime example, has anyone noticed the effort that sinx has put into MapMixer for UT3?

I really thought someone would have created a fully working mod allowing the translocator in all of the game types, (or at least the death matches), by now. There are one or two mods available, but each seem to have their bugs from what I've seen.

 

[MonsOlympus]

I never said (or intended to say) that modders can take the initiative or do this without Epic approval. I said that Epic could consider the possibility, and if so, then would be in control. No paypal, no Google ads, no content distribution via Steam, fine. No homepage, no clue. If none, everything would stay the same. But if one or more of these were allowed, then modders will benefit. So it's basically staying the same or being better. And see it as a whole, split in parts, which ones are possible, consider carefully what would it take to make any of them work, search the net for details, ask Epic, etc...

Sorry I may sound like a jerk, but I don't feel the need to argue and defend something against the ones that could benefit from it.

Well I think Epic could have taken some time and included a mod browser into UT3, it could even hve been a seperate app which works like a p2p client specifically for mods. Things similar to what you mention like ratings, info like times downloaded etc could all be useful.

If mods are good enough then sure I think those people should see some returns, problem with that is, is it can go against what mods mean in one way. People will step in and say oh change this n that to make it more marketable and even take the IP out of the modders hands, like CS and TF for eg.

Its just a tricky topic, there is MSUC which gives modders a chance at getting something back from epic for supporting UT. Some modders go on to realize their dreams and work in the biz, so there is certainly benefits there

 

[Hedge-o-Matic]

I think a lot of it has to do with the community's reception of new content, in recent years. Maps are habitually trashed on the forums, and very few people bother with mods and mutators online. Back in the day, you could go and find a game of Slavemaster, or Infiltration, but nowadays, it's all vanilla since most people avoid the 23-mutators-you've-never-heard-of-plus-instagib servers.

Even the maps that are givne passing grades by the community are ignored online. Not sure how it is now (since I've got so little time to play, lately), but a couple of months ago there were a grand total of two custom maps for CTF and two more for WAR on all of the servers I could access.

Add this in to the smaller community, and the advancing ages of the Unreal fanbase (bringing with it more responsabilities, kids, etc.) and multiply by the additional time needed for new content. It all means you've got a recipe for a smaller, less active community.

It's too bad, though, given the awesome tools available this time around. Even with the hard-coded limitations and strange barriers to traditional content (e.g. voicepacks), UT3's toolset is still the most awesome ever shipped with a game. I mean, Kismet alone is worth the purchase price of UT3, imo.

 

[MonsOlympus]

Yeah redirects still arnt happenin are they? So map downloads can be slow, hell I was playing on a server with the Epic bonus pack and people voted in morbias and I was the only one left until I decided I was bored and left yeah I know theres a problem with the map but hey I didnt vote for it.

 

[nomadicus]

but a couple of months ago there were a grand total of two custom maps for CTF and two more for WAR on all of the servers I could access.

On my servers I had to pull the custom content due to the could-not-load-vehicle-package bug. When that happened, many if not all players could not get back on the server.
I am pretty sure many others pulled custom content as well . . . at least warfare.
As a mapper I am (and others I know) holding off releasing warfare maps until the patch is released.
Epic claims to have fixed this in the next patch, but when? BatleMode may have solved it before Epic.

 

[cubemario]

Mozi and T2A pretty much said it all. Only things I have to add is...

UT3 is not the only game having problems with a mods and custom content. Half-Life 2, Counter Strike Source all have had problems.

Counter-strike had tons of custom content, super hero mod, warcraft mod, etc.

Counter-strike source has zombie mod (a very half assed mod) warcraft mod, and no super hero mod and not nearly as many good maps.

Half-Life had tons of maps, tons of high quality single player mods... the sheer amount of high quality stuff was amazing.

Half-life 2 has it's fair share of great content like garry's mod, a few neat single player maps, and a few good mods. They are all few and far between however and most have their fair share of bugs and crashes. When half-life 2 came out, there were tons of promises, tons of mods in development, many great ideas, but 99.9% of them vanished. In fact, the only good mods you do see use the maps that valve made and just add stuff to the gameplay.

Mozi is exactly right, making mods, maps, models, etc. is way way to time consuming and difficult now.

The standards have been put way to high. I've had about 5 months experience in Maya, I know that it's time consuming and it takes a lot of effort. Now that the polygon counts are so high (requiring you to make more detailed models, that is if you want anyone to use your stuff) and maps having to be so detailed now.

More detailed stuff= more time to model, more time to render, more skill, more experience, and some times a better PC. Lets face it, the people who have the skill for that stuff may as well make pre rendered stuff (which is a lot less hassle and things to worry about) or they have a career in it already. The same applies to mappers, texturers, etc.

So if the game companies want more people to make custom content and mods, they are going to have to find better and new methods for development. Ones that that don't require groups of people to make something that meets up to these new standards of development. I will be making custom content eventually, but I can tell you it's not going to be on anything other than ut2004 or the source engine. The other ones are just too demanding.

 

[Vitamin-Carrot]

UT3 TETRIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Asura]

Well I think Epic could have taken some time and included a mod browser into UT3, it could even hve been a seperate app which works like a p2p client specifically for mods. Things similar to what you mention like ratings, info like times downloaded etc could all be useful.

Unreal needs a multiplayer frontend like the one from Tribes 2 - in which you can create a searchable profile, which has loads of stats. You could see your world rankings and track yourself against your friends. Servers could also have pages in the "browser" that were viewable via in-game menus, as well as having server leader-boards and mod info pages too.

 

[evilmrfrank]

Of course, it has nothing to do with the fact that the game sucks arse through a straw, no, nothing to do with it at all.

//Sticks head back in the sand

Come on, UT3's a Turd, everyone knows it, it's common knowledge, take a look at the servers.

We got another troll

 

[elmuerte]

you mean "another"

 

[evilmrfrank]

Fixed

 

[awaw]

On my servers I had to pull the custom content due to the could-not-load-vehicle-package bug. When that happened, many if not all players could not get back on the server.
I am pretty sure many others pulled custom content as well . . . at least warfare.
As a mapper I am (and others I know) holding off releasing warfare maps until the patch is released.
Epic claims to have fixed this in the next patch, but when? BatleMode may have solved it before Epic.

There's a fix workaround for that in the content section

 

[Anuban]

Wow this thread is still going and it is full of mature comments ... that is cool and again folks thanks for sharing your viewpoints. I have to say this is one of my better topics. It's about time I had a good one.

 

[Phopojijo]

Said it once and I'll say it again... patience... these things take time.

[screenshot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v342/Phopojijo/welcome.png[/screenshot]
(not the most flattering screenshot, but yea It's proof of effort)

The industry exploded so there's a lot less of us non-commercial, true... but there are still some fresh blood pouring in. It's a hobby like any other... as long as there's a creative outlet, someone will be creative with it.

Let's see what'll happen come June 27th.

 

[Anuban]

Actually I was all set to really try and become a competent level designer finally but as many folks have pointed out it is really daunting for a new comer to map making to start with UT3. And going back to UT2K4 or older to learn map making seems counter productive since that technology is now outdated. It seems like these days the best way for modders to get into the biz is to become really good level designers and all games require levels no matter how good or bad they are. Without levels you don't have a setting so there is no possible way to make a game (of course without animations and models and programming the same can be said but the level is the basic thing ... the starting point and the thing that dictates how the gameplay mechanics will work) ... so yeah seeing the success of so many folks I casually know from the Unreal forums really made me want to start making maps.

I was thinking of programming of course since I have a little experience with UScript but advanced programming concepts continue to be a challenge for me to grasp competently enough to really contribute. I have ideas of course and still plenty of passion but then again who doesn't these days. I am starting to wonder if I will ever be a part of the professional video game development world.