Please sir, may I have one more?

[{GD}Ghost]

Since when did a military sniper not know how to use a AR/SMG?

Lame excuse. Try another.

And what good are 5 snipers? That's like having two dicks in the same bedroom. Alot of people get f*cked, but something is wrong with that picture.

....and what's wrong with the MP5? You actually do have to aim to use it effectively.

 

[jaunty]

Theres another name for preset loadouts.... classes.

Since when did a military sniper not know how to use a AR/SMG?

Dont you have to qualify rather well with an M16 to become a sniper in the US Army or some other branch of US armed service? (marines, rangers, whatever)

 

[Xenomorph]

Since when were any of us in the military?

 

[CyanideTriscuit]

Originally posted by {GD}Ghost
Since when did a military sniper not know how to use a AR/SMG?

This isn't the military, it's a game. Believe it or not, there are people who play solely for the sniping experience.

And what good are 5 snipers? That's like having two dicks in the same bedroom. Alot of people get f*cked, but something is wrong with that picture.

Ever played on DM-INF-Trenches? Every single person on the map has a sniper rifle, cause it means survival. If only 1 person on each team had a rifle, then everyone else would be sniper bait. It may not be realistic to have 5 snipers, but it's a product of the unorganized manner in which online games are carried out.

....and what's wrong with the MP5? You actually do have to aim to use it effectively.

Where did this come from? The mp5 is the only weapon (besides the beretta) that I use.

Preset loadouts may not harm you because you are equally skilled in all weapons, but you need to realize that there are people who play the game differently than you do.

Oh, and I do recall Warren or some other high-up INF man saying that classes would never be implemented because of their restrictiveness.

 

[CyanideTriscuit]

Originally posted by Xenomorph
Since when were any of us in the military?

Before anyone jumps on Xenomorph for this being a "military sim" : Remember that, unlike soldiers, new INF players are not given thorough training in all things soldierly. They should not be expected to be proficient with any and every weapon that a soldier should be proficient with.

 

[perrin98]

*cough cough*on DM-INF-Trenches, i take my MP5 and just wait until a couple of guys are dead. Then i make a quick rush and kill all those pesky snipers while they're looking through there scopes. hehe.

 

[Xenomorph]

Originally posted by CyanideTriscuit


Before anyone jumps on Xenomorph for this being a "military sim" : Remember that, unlike soldiers, new INF players are not given thorough training in all things soldierly. They should not be expected to be proficient with any and every weapon that a soldier should be proficient with.

Thank you. The point I was trying to make is just because this is a military sim doesn't mean we're all in the military, or have anywhere close to the expertise that a thoroughly trained marine would have. To expect everyone to be able to play as such would be both silly and impractical. Keep in mind this is still a game. Realistic, yes, but still a game.

 

[SoSilencer]

Ever played on DM-INF-Trenches? Every single person on the map has a sniper rifle, cause it means survival. If only 1 person on each team had a rifle, then everyone else would be sniper bait. It may not be realistic to have 5 snipers, but it's a product of the unorganized manner in which online games are carried out.

You have it reversed (and this is the biggest problem in INF). The reason everyone has sniper rifles is NOT because of the unorganized game, it is the unorganized game that is CREATED by the fact that everyone can take enough weapons and ammo to handle the entire situation themselves! If only 1-2 people on each team were allowed to have a sniper rifle or scope than you would no longer NEED a sniper rifle because the other team would be in the same situation as you, running from trench to trench with an assault rifle while one or two snipers try to keep the enemies heads down as you get close. It is the simple fact that EVERYONE on both teams can do EVERYTHING. There is no NEED for teamwork because you can do it yourself and this is because there is no team based loadout restrictions. INF NEEDS to limit how many of each weapon a team can take, specifically sniper rifles, grenade launchers, and acogs. It can be done extremely fairly as we found out in THIS THREAD so if you haven't read it, do it now.

Preset loadouts may not harm you because you are equally skilled in all weapons, but you need to realize that there are people who play the game differently than you do.

You have this backwards as well. The reason most people aren't skilled in multiple weapons are because they don't use anything but their two favorites. If people couldn't always take their preferred weapon they would get REAL good REAL fast with the rest. The reason some of us are good with lots of weapons is because we use them all, we switch our loadouts around a little instead of using the same weapon on every single map.

You guys are just trying to take the easy way out. You don't want to be forced to take anything but your most favorite weapon because you suck with the rest. Ever stop and think about the reason WHY you suck with the rest? It's because you never use them and if TEAM BASED LOADOUT RESTRICTIONS were added and sometimes you were forced to take alternate weapons you'd find that it wasn't a problem at all because YOU WOULD NO LONGER SUCK WITH ANY OF THE WEAPONS!

 

[CyanideTriscuit]

Ummmm no. I won't play with anything but my mp5, and I won't approve of a system that won't let me have it round after round after round. I'm not afraid of using another weapon. When the p90 and sig came out, I used each of them for a full day or two. I just didn't like their feel. Using the mp5 lets me get into the game. No other gun does it for me.

Think for a second. Would it really matter if too many people had, say, p90s instead of mp5s, unscoped m16s or sigs? The only weapon that people complain about whoring are scoped weapons, sniper rifles, and nade launchers. Possibly shotguns if you want to go a step further.

I'm not against somehow creating realistic loadout restrictions, but shoving an m16 in my hands and booting me out the door is a no-go.

With that said, I fully support your idea of giving each player a small amount of money (2-4k) and enable them to give the excess to people who want shiny, expensive sniper rifles and extra nade launchers. It would enable people like me to have their precious favorite weapons and do a good job of limiting the sniper rifles, ACOGs, and nade launchers.

But you see, that's not a preset loadout, it's just a restrictive loadout choice system. I absolutely hate the idea of being forced to use a weapon, and I believe that THAT [being forced to use a weapon, in case you don't follow my f0rked up grammar] is taking the easy way out.

One final thought: There's absolutely no way in hell that I would be as good with the mp5 as I am now if I only used it 1/5th of the time.

 

[St0rmcaller]

Originally posted by SoSilencer

You guys are just trying to take the easy way out. You don't want to be forced to take anything but your most favorite weapon because you suck with the rest. Ever stop and think about the reason WHY you suck with the rest? It's because you never use them and if TEAM BASED LOADOUT RESTRICTIONS were added and sometimes you were forced to take alternate weapons you'd find that it wasn't a problem at all because YOU WOULD NO LONGER SUCK WITH ANY OF THE WEAPONS!

I use only the M-16. And I don't suck at the other weapons. I just don't have fun with them. My fun is not your fun, and no one should expect that to be any other way. But infering that all the people who use only one weapon "suck" is not a way to get your point across.

 

[perrin98]

I use nearly everything and i still don't want preset loadouts. I change my weapon according to the map. Heres what i use:

These are all seperate loadouts.
MP5+Supressor
M16+ACOG+M203
M16+ACOG
M16+M203
M16 Nekkid ))
SG551
SG551+ACOG and HK69
Robar
PSG

These are my most used lods. Everything has its use, but don't force people.

 

[c+k|nEVeRmOre]

Originally posted by {GD}Ghost
....and what's wrong with the MP5? You actually do have to aim to use it effectively.

I believe you took him out of context:

That'll really stop the kind of people -I- hate most of all: People with a Robar, M3, AND MP5... Makes no -realistic- sense!

The way I read that is that he has great disdain for people who have all those weapons in their loadout because, as he said, it is unrealistic for one person to carry around all those things at once. I guess if he had put "at once" you probably would not have taken his statement out of context. I guess I could be misreading what he wrote, but, I doubt it, otherwise he would have used "the" in place of "a" in front of "Robar." Thank you, come again

 

[GranoblasticMan]

Sorry, I did mean "all at once". I personally can't see everyone's problem with preset loadouts. I'm not saying "Oh, well, everyone has to use the M-16!". I'm saying "Oh, well, everyone has to have one main weapon and a side arm, no more, no less."

I don't know, I mean, to me, it should seem that the only people against what I want (okay, maybe let's not call it "preset loadouts") should be the people who run around with half the guns in the game as their loadout.

I dunno.. Maybe the X-com system could fix this, but I really hate people who don't carry sidearms just for the sake of bulk.

 

[yurch]

Im surprised noone mentions my precious aksmu...
That is an interesting question... classes. Hmm. I always thought that the loadout defined the class, which it kinda does. The problem (im just repeating everyone here, bear with me) is that everyone chooses the same class.

Instead of limiting the class, lets do what tribes does. Anyone can pick up any loadout they want, and walk on right over to the enemy.
But.
The disadvantages of your loadout are gonna hurt you. Snipers die from single morter hits. Heavies get trashed If found alone outside. Mediums arent really good at anything.
This is not the case in inf.
You can bring a robar along with your p90. Effectively making you good at just about everything.
And that is not even considered a heavy loadout. Some will bring along a pistol and a shotty.
If we made the loadouts more restrictive, then your classes will begin to show up.
A long range fighter should be screwed when a guy with an AKSMU(thats me!) jumps in his trench with him.
That same aksmu user should also be screwed when someone is shooting at him from across the map.

The classes are already here. Its just that people can become two or three with the right weapon selection.
The only vauge area involves the two "all around weapons" - the sig and m16.
I don't have much of a problem with either. Its ok to have a mediocre "class" thats all around.

 

[{GD}Ghost]

Sorry Grano, I did mis-read your post. Point taken

 

[Snakeyes]

"I dunno.. Maybe the X-com system could fix this, but I really hate people who don't carry sidearms just for the sake of bulk."

You're entitled to your hatreds, of course, but if we're talking realism here, sidearms aren't forced on anyone in the military that I know of. In fact, at least up until WWII they were only deligated out to officers and other people who didn't or couldn't use a rifle.

I'm not sure about the modern millitary.

I think the problem could be solved by putting caps on what could be carried instead of pre-set loadouts. For example: If one has a robar one can not also have an AK. If one has an M16 they can not also have a shotgun. Etc.

This allows people to take as little as they want. You can pick any weapon, add any attachement and include (or declude) any sidearm you want as long as you don't put certain things together.

Then no one will get hurt save those who want a shotgun, a robar, an mp5, a DE and some nades...oh and an M16 tucked in the boot.

 

[GranoblasticMan]

Snakeyes, the X-Com is pretty much what you're suggesting. See the (somewhat large) images The_Fur attatched in Military Loadouts that make sense...

 

[yurch]

Ill tell you what. Guns like the benneli aren't all that heavy - but damn, I can never imagine carrying one of them and a rifle and an smg...
The bulk system is weird to me, and I feel its gotta go.

 

[DamienW]

Anyone ever thought about a SWAT3-like system (one side arm and one main weapon ?) If i'm quoting swat3 even if some did it before, it's because i was impressed by the way the weapon didn't disappear when you switched to the side gun, but went on a specific place on the torso. So something similar would be good, no ?(with the pdw version of mp-5 considered as a side arm)
And for the all-sniper teams matter, why not having an anvanced team game mode where you can't have more than one sniper and keep a basic game mode ? This way anyone could play INF the way they want...

 

[})FA|Snake]

If it was a server variable i guess i wouldn't object