It is so easy to sit behind a keyboard and monitor and spout out rebelious ideas....
Makes good fiction....
Makes good fiction....
McVeigh + FBI = I dont know
- Thread starter Sebu_NZ
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Well, Mason seems to have stolen my thunder 
I still think the actions of the FBI and BATF at Waco are seperate issues from McVeigh.
He should fry, and so should the corrupt folk in our government, but their punishments should not be dependent on one another.
I still think the actions of the FBI and BATF at Waco are seperate issues from McVeigh.
He should fry, and so should the corrupt folk in our government, but their punishments should not be dependent on one another.
Kuroshio Apocal
Sucka Free
A patriot and soldier?! More like pussy and traitor. If he is a soldier, he is the pussiest I have ever heard of. Says he felt betrayed by the US government when they sent him into Iraq to kill Iraqis and we had "no right to invade Iraq". The sentiments of a pussy if I ever heard them. A real soldier might have feelings killing the enemy but he doesn't allow that to interfere with his thinking in any way whatsoever. McVeigh allowed it to warp his perceptions, until he was able kill 168 people he was sworn to defend. The actions of a traitor.
Sorry Zundie, next time I'll try to 'PM' you before I post.
Again, I don't have a problem with Mcveighs beliefs and opinions, he is more than welcome to have them, my problem lies with not only his choice of targets but the fact that it was women and children who were the primary victims. This is cowardice, plain and simple. Had he given warning days in advance of his bombong..THEN you might be able to compare the Oklahoma City bombing to Waco. Those poor people NEVER knew what was going to happen. Sorry to disagree, but typically a 'soldier' (in general) doesn't act in that manner(of course there are probably many exceptions).
Again, I don't have a problem with Mcveighs beliefs and opinions, he is more than welcome to have them, my problem lies with not only his choice of targets but the fact that it was women and children who were the primary victims. This is cowardice, plain and simple. Had he given warning days in advance of his bombong..THEN you might be able to compare the Oklahoma City bombing to Waco. Those poor people NEVER knew what was going to happen. Sorry to disagree, but typically a 'soldier' (in general) doesn't act in that manner(of course there are probably many exceptions).
McVeigh may have done something terribly bad, but I don't think he was a coward. He knew he would be caught and he knew he would die for it. What he did was incredibly brave, he was willing to sacrifice himself for what he believed in. We need more people like him in the world (of course I am refering to being willing to die for his cause, not bombing civilians). Going into a BATF bulding and opening fire isn't bravery, its insanity. McVeigh is a terrorist, his entire purpose was the inspire terror, especially in the federal government, which he did remarkably well. What did may not have been right, but it was a show of more bravery than most people will ever see again.
I think you would get the living snot beat out of you in most barrooms.
Yeah, but the convict has to request that his trial be started over again.
Waco was a first class **** up by the ATF and heads did roll. I seem to remember that the children were killed by the branch Davidain people. Any one remember for sure?
OK city was not a **** up, that was done deliberatley, and he DID kill women and children, someone tell me where the ATF and FBI has gone in and murdered helpless women and children deliberatley. Everyone who thinks McVeigh is a hero and a soldier, well guess what, the winners make the rules in war. McVeigh lost, he got caught and didn't overthrow the U.S. he deserves whats coming to him.
You assume a lot about Timmie boy...unless you know him personally I don't think you can make that statement.
He was trying to leave the state at the time of his arrest, and he was pulled over for a broken license plate and arrested for not having a drivers license, or some minor thing (spent several days in jail before the police realized they had the bomber). If he was so gosh darn brave I'd think he would have admitted to the arresting officer what he'd done and who he was.
I think he expected to escape into the mountains in Montana or someplace like that.
Setting a bomb and scurrying out of town is the act of a coward.
Zund, McVeigh was seen at the scene of the crime, and he was speeding away in an unmarked car after it detonated. He made it very easy to find him. He didn't fight back when he was found. He wanted to die. He wanted to be a martyr.
And Mason, you miss the point. WHY should they have had to surrender at Waco. They were within their human rights to own weapons. Why should they have surrendered when their only crime was believing that as human beings they have natural rights that the FBI can't take away?
phatcat
akward cat
- Dec 29, 2000
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Rogue, I did NOT miss the point, you missed mine. I shall put it another way: Koresh KNEW that his days were numbered, if he wanted to hold out with his men, fine, I got no truck with that. He could have (natch..he SHOULD have) asked that the women and children(or at least the children) be removed to safety, he did no such thing which to me indicates that he did not care if they died and probably wished to use them as human shields(noone knows for sure, Koresh sure ain't talkin'). The point is that there was absolutely NO reason for women and children to be killed in Waco. On the other hand, Mcveigh KNEW that there were going to be women and children casualties when his bomb went off.
Last time I checked, NO ONE considered it brave if you MURDERED helpless women and children...make no bones about about it, what Mcveigh did was murder, in cold blood, dozens of women and children. Didn't Vietnam vets get spit on for killing women and/or children? ..and they were in the service of their country! ..and not only that, some of the women and children were actually used to bomb military locations.
I think people need to reevaluate who they choose as 'heroes'. Terrorism is not, by any way, shape, or form, a noble 'profession' ..nor is it a 'heroic' one. I also severely doubt that Mcveigh WANTED to get caught and martyred. If he really wanted to get caught, why did he even bother running? Why not stand across the street with a big sign saying "I blew up the building."?
If someone wants to prove a point by killing someone, at least have the courage to kill someone who is involved in the cause you are fighting against. Kill a politician, a high ranking military official, whatever...I don't see where women and children fit on that list.
Last time I checked, NO ONE considered it brave if you MURDERED helpless women and children...make no bones about about it, what Mcveigh did was murder, in cold blood, dozens of women and children. Didn't Vietnam vets get spit on for killing women and/or children? ..and they were in the service of their country! ..and not only that, some of the women and children were actually used to bomb military locations.
I think people need to reevaluate who they choose as 'heroes'. Terrorism is not, by any way, shape, or form, a noble 'profession' ..nor is it a 'heroic' one. I also severely doubt that Mcveigh WANTED to get caught and martyred. If he really wanted to get caught, why did he even bother running? Why not stand across the street with a big sign saying "I blew up the building."?
If someone wants to prove a point by killing someone, at least have the courage to kill someone who is involved in the cause you are fighting against. Kill a politician, a high ranking military official, whatever...I don't see where women and children fit on that list.