If Quake was done today
- Thread starter Psychomorph
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Well, from the inside you see a lot more than we are, but the way I see it, vast majority of modern shooters, be it FPS or TPS games (not taking into account RPG games like TES or Borderlands) are down to player being urged from one objective towards the other. There's very little of exploration (usually in search of some collectibles) if there's any. Unreal had quite a few levels where you would wander around looking where to go for good 15-30 minutes, because it was complex and didn't have "get here" marker.
Sunspire anyone? I think I was lost in there for hours the first time I went through. Was awesome though.
Sunspire anyone? I think I was lost in there for hours the first time I went through. Was awesome though.
I usually got lost in the temple parts of the game, like Chizra's.
I liked getting lost in Unreal. It was neat to get new translator messages that fill in more of the story in places off the beaten path. Nowadays, getting lost is merely there to get some worthless collectible.
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well this thread is more about FPS than any other genre.
and in that regard, it's absolutely spot on.
FPS are going to shit these days. at least 75% of them look and/or play exactly the same, and this applies to both their singleplayer and multiplayer components. it's one cookie-cutter clone after the other each of which relies heavily on this bland gray/brown color scheme.
that picture Bashbox posted is very telling...
I find this a very interesting discussion. I recently had this also related to a newly released game vs. many others in it's genre. We had a discussion about The Secret World, and how that game uses such a different interface and style and rule set than World of Warcraft and it's clones.
What is interesting is that I heard quite a couple respondses that it was fresh and new and different, and a lot of frustration and mis-understood mechanics that you don't just 'get' without reading the manual or articles online. I actually enjoyed seeing that TSW came with a substantial manual and not just a flier with some logo's on it.
My theory is that there has been a culture change over the last 10 - 15 years. The age of short, bite sized experiences and rewards is so ingrained now that patience to figure out a problem is low. People will quickly go to google and find any answer because that is a real world skill that gives the reward faster than trying to figure it out yourself.
Personally I like games that allow me to explore and try to find my objectives with good descriptions and level design. I like having the fallback to get a hint or direction if I need it, and if those are integrated in the world it is even better. It is nice being able to turn on an objective marker if you are stuck and are getting to that 'I am stuck and want to just stop playing' level.
I am curious to read more thoughts from you guys on this.
What is interesting is that I heard quite a couple respondses that it was fresh and new and different, and a lot of frustration and mis-understood mechanics that you don't just 'get' without reading the manual or articles online. I actually enjoyed seeing that TSW came with a substantial manual and not just a flier with some logo's on it.
My theory is that there has been a culture change over the last 10 - 15 years. The age of short, bite sized experiences and rewards is so ingrained now that patience to figure out a problem is low. People will quickly go to google and find any answer because that is a real world skill that gives the reward faster than trying to figure it out yourself.
Personally I like games that allow me to explore and try to find my objectives with good descriptions and level design. I like having the fallback to get a hint or direction if I need it, and if those are integrated in the world it is even better. It is nice being able to turn on an objective marker if you are stuck and are getting to that 'I am stuck and want to just stop playing' level.
I am curious to read more thoughts from you guys on this.
I think we've all seen this video once before.
Question he asks is "WTF happened"
Simple. Gaming became a serious market (Epic Games is a classic example) (It gets worse with mobile game$ these days). With market, you have to reach a bigger audience, with a bigger audience, you have to make games simple. To make games simple, you sometimes have to put hints here and there to keep the players interested and going.
Tribes: Ascend VS Call of Duty.
Complex learning curve VERSUS Simple and stress-free Learning curve.
Casual gamers they don't have a lifetime to spare at practicing rocket jumping. Casual gamers are leading this market.
From a veteran perspective, it's obviously obnoxious.
I don't know what point you're trying to make here?
If there is one.
Question he asks is "WTF happened"
Simple. Gaming became a serious market (Epic Games is a classic example) (It gets worse with mobile game$ these days). With market, you have to reach a bigger audience, with a bigger audience, you have to make games simple. To make games simple, you sometimes have to put hints here and there to keep the players interested and going.
Tribes: Ascend VS Call of Duty.
Complex learning curve VERSUS Simple and stress-free Learning curve.
Casual gamers they don't have a lifetime to spare at practicing rocket jumping. Casual gamers are leading this market.
From a veteran perspective, it's obviously obnoxious.
I don't know what point you're trying to make here?
If there is one.
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I still have yet to master rocket jumping, bunny hopping, etc, and I consider myself a veteran gamer.
I think he is making the point in saying "Hey, look at all this diversity in previous fps games! Current day fps games look rather monotonous."
Oh. Looks like he forgot to add the tiny Borderlands/Firefall/Tribes thumbnails.
But yes that would make sense, I guess.
I personally don't mind it. Realistic bullet guns or not.
There is definitively a lack of creationism in games these days. But that's all because of risk VS success.
Make a Call of Duty clone = Game mechanics that sells (hate it or love it) versus trying something new (the big risk)
If you guys want to see something new, you're probably going to find it in indie-like developers.
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Good, I don't want any type of religious garbage billed as a "scientific 'theory'" in games.
Sequelitis went over this as well. Part of it is probably part of a push to keep gaming easily accessible, but it's become increasingly annoying and persistent as game devs feel obligated to hold your hand through the entire process.
I also expect the increasing complexity of game controllers and control schemes has played a part as well. In the Doom/Quake era keys were pretty much standardized and there were no keys for additional functions past "move, shoot, select weapon, use things" which were all mapped to convenient keys that didn't change much through the years until wasd started catching on.
[M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM[/M]
I also expect the increasing complexity of game controllers and control schemes has played a part as well. In the Doom/Quake era keys were pretty much standardized and there were no keys for additional functions past "move, shoot, select weapon, use things" which were all mapped to convenient keys that didn't change much through the years until wasd started catching on.
[M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM[/M]
This looks like fun...
[m]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juWHLvl8diw&feature=player_embedded#![/m]
[m]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juWHLvl8diw&feature=player_embedded#![/m]
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In my opinion DayZ is the most inventive game concept right now, and it's not even all that inventive when you consider that zombie apocalypses have been seen in movies and comics since at least the 1960's. DayZ as an open-world apocalypse survival sandbox is an amazing experience. But DayZ as a form of fun entertainment is a bit lacking; even most of the DayZ community agrees that you'd have to be a masochist to play it for more than a couple of weeks without getting bored of dying (or getting murdered from a klick away by you know not who) and losing everything you worked your ass off for hours to acquire over and over and over again. I gave it a fair two months, but after that I was done with nothing to show for it but a deep disappointment in the community. Every week the developer makes the game less player-friendly and community-centric, and every week more and more players get fed up with it and go play something else. Which is one of the many reasons that community is slowly but surely dying off. The hackers are getting to be a real pain in the ass too.
There's a good and inventive idea there but the developer is more interested in turning it into some kind of mockery of gaming (he calls it an 'anti-game') instead of an actual game. Simulation games have a fine line they must walk, lest they become boring and tedious. Other developers are starting to realize the monetary potential of the concept, but they seem to be taking it in a slightly more 'pay2win/microtransaction' direction (The War Z as a reference) and in my opinion, those are the worst kinds of games. It seems like we might be doomed to endure more mediocrity in the twenty-teens.
Black & White 2 has been on shelves for over three years now, and to be honest, it wasn't inventive even then. Consider that this is a sequel to Black & White, which has been around since 2001. The original game was inventive and fresh. B&W2 has more-or-less the same features and gameplay that the original had.
Like almost every other game appearing on shelves these days, the core concept was fleshed out over a decade ago. I'm not saying B&W2 was a bad game because it wasn't, but calling it new and inventive is akin to calling Halo the most original FPS in history; in my opinion it's just more of the same mediocrity. Maybe even a bit on the late side, considering the sequel took eight years to see the light of day.
There's a good and inventive idea there but the developer is more interested in turning it into some kind of mockery of gaming (he calls it an 'anti-game') instead of an actual game. Simulation games have a fine line they must walk, lest they become boring and tedious. Other developers are starting to realize the monetary potential of the concept, but they seem to be taking it in a slightly more 'pay2win/microtransaction' direction (The War Z as a reference) and in my opinion, those are the worst kinds of games. It seems like we might be doomed to endure more mediocrity in the twenty-teens.
nigga' what you say??
Black & White 2 has been on shelves for over three years now, and to be honest, it wasn't inventive even then. Consider that this is a sequel to Black & White, which has been around since 2001. The original game was inventive and fresh. B&W2 has more-or-less the same features and gameplay that the original had.
Like almost every other game appearing on shelves these days, the core concept was fleshed out over a decade ago. I'm not saying B&W2 was a bad game because it wasn't, but calling it new and inventive is akin to calling Halo the most original FPS in history; in my opinion it's just more of the same mediocrity. Maybe even a bit on the late side, considering the sequel took eight years to see the light of day.
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To be fair, Ed, I doubt JSR was saying that B&W2 was original in concept, but he was more likely poking fun at Kantham's word usage errors.
Exactly. I could name a couple of games, btw. that really make you doubt that there was an Intelligent Designer at work at any point, lol.
Anyway, now that we're talking about B&W: most animals recoil if you touch their privates - but the cow loves it!
(The cow rules! All hail the cow!)
Anyway, now that we're talking about B&W: most animals recoil if you touch their privates - but the cow loves it!
(The cow rules! All hail the cow!)
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Not really, considering back then designers had to INVENT THEIR OWN GOD DAMN GAME ENGINE and software now days makes game creation rather easy. Time consuming due to the level of detail yes, but easy. Face it, the industry is just lazy and looking to make easy money now, just like the film industry. I haven't seen a new IP that is an original idea from one of those "AAA studios" in forever.
Not to bash on DayZ, but L4D is more inventive; It has more gameplay elements, more enemy types and variety and the list goes on. DayZ devs made a zombie mod out of a sandbox game and it totally worked. It worked because no one made a game like this before, I doubt it worked because someone sat down for days trying to design the most inventive game to date.