Fitna:the movie by Wilders

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JaFO

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Nov 5, 2000
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The official site : http://www.fitnathemovie.com/
a site claiming to mirror the movie when/if it is released : http://www.fitnathemovie.info/

And more info : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitna_(film)

To summarise :
Geert Wilders (a muslim/islam-hating idiot with a peroxide-complex) is supposed to be making an anti-Khoran/Islam movie that's got him a death-threat on a supposed 'hidden' site for Al Qaida (or whatever that's spelled) by people pretending to be muslims.

I wonder if anyone here has heard about this and what your thoughts are.

I think that thanks to the response from fanatics the 'movie' is getting more publicity than it deserves. The average Nazi-fanboy protest isn't noticed by anyone, except the like-minded people. Now thanks to a few fanatic terrorists that claim to be following the Islam suddenly it's as if 'everyone' knows about this.
The reaction it causes by the fanatics is enough to make me want to see that movie just to see what the heck they're so upset about.
I doubt it is worth the minutes it takes to see.
 

Balton

The Beast of Worship
Mar 6, 2001
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I have not heard of that but I know that drawing the attention of islamist fundamentalists is easy. Just draw a picture of Mohammed and you're in for some serious jihad.
 

NeoNite

Starsstream
Dec 10, 2000
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You dutchies have geert wilders, we have dewinter/vanhecke etc.

The best thing to do with these kind of people is not giving them too much attention, indeed. Alas, their sneaky strategies always seem to have the effect they so strongly desire.

Although, apparently our extreme right party seems to be losing voters lately... they're simply changing the old haters for fresher ones, imho. (another seperatist party)

geert wilders and his anti-khoran movie. I wonder how this will turn out...
Well, we have extreme right chanting the anti-mosque song, with the main focus on antwerp iirc.

sigh...
 

Persefone

Ms God!
Jun 2, 2005
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JaFO said:
I wonder if anyone here has heard about this and what your thoughts are.
Een volk dat voor korannen zwicht
zal meer dan lijf en goed verliezen
dan dooft het licht…
 

JaFO

bugs are features too ...
Nov 5, 2000
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Een volk dat voor tirannen zwicht
zal meer dan lijf en goed verliezen
dan dooft het licht…
Fixed ...
I guess this proves that you were the one that defaced the WW2 monument ;)

The threat-level for a terrorist attack is supposed to be 'substantial' (which is the second highest level apparently).
And that's all because of one movie that may not even be worth watching (it's not even feature-length from what I've heard).
 

Sjosz

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Dec 31, 2003
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Trying to keep track of what Wilders is up to with his schemes from England isn't that hard seeing as he manages to upset at least 1 country every other day. Whatever the film turns out to be, it certainly shows that people like Wilders are prepared to go far to make a point, even if the point is already made before releasing the film. It's an awfully touchy subject, that's for sure.
 

Persefone

Ms God!
Jun 2, 2005
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The threat-level for a terrorist attack is supposed to be 'substantial' (which is the second highest level apparently).
And that's all because of one movie that may not even be worth watching (it's not even feature-length from what I've heard).

And what? They killed Pim, they killed Theo, they are the good for nothing, the social assistance parasites, the rape champions. What is supposed we should do? They have the right to shout freely the destruction of the Western world but we must tolerate them. The infidel is impure, the infidel is dirty, the infidel isn´t halal but the social assistance and the health assistance the infidel pays are good for the pure parasite, as pure that he shall not work That´s for the infidel to maintain the pure, illiterate muslim. We must respect them but they can freely call whores any western woman if they feel like it and of course, like the western woman is a whore they can rape whenever they want. Champions of rape in every European country. But we don´t want to be unrespectful to them.

And when are “the new Europeans” going to respect us? When are they going to tolerate us?
The quality of the film doesn´t matter. It is a stand for freedom of speech, is a stand for people having the right to know what the “Religion of Peace” is.
The threat is real but for that, not only Wilder´s film shouldn´t be banned, it is a more powerful reason to release it because if we give in here we’ll have to yield every time they claim a “new right”.
If a countryman wants to say something, and the only argument those aliens are able of is violence I think is quite clear we should dispose of them properly.
 

Kaithofis

The Seldom Seen Kid
I really can't stand that guy, nor can I stand the media attention he's getting.
He's really creating his own problem tbh. He keeps on insulting muslims and the Islam hoping to get a reaction that will get him more votes.
I can't believe it's worked too. Some people (600.000 votes, wasn't it?) really are effing idiots

Funny that you bring up the freedom of speech argument though. Just because you can do it, doesn't make it a good thing to do.
Hell, I can go to Hell's Angels HQ and call them all a bunch of ****ing ****suckers. I'll cause a riot and send myself to hospital, but hey, at least I STOOD UP FOR MY RIGHTS EFF YEAH!
Not that the Hell's Angels ever bothered me with anything, but at least I proved that they can be aggressive when provoked! Surely I deserve to be prime-minister and the subject of headlines now...

So please explain this problem we supposedly have with Muslims and the Islam, because I don't understand why we want to insult them yet again.
 

Mozi

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Apr 12, 2002
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Just adding fuel to the fire... looks like this guy is purposely provoking fundamentalists to make his biased point about the faith of Islam true. Retard...

Freedom of speech etc. that's all cool... everyone should have that right but use it wisely... that's all. Your Hell's Angels example though odd is a right just because you can say something does not mean you should.

Also some other things that seem wrong taken from BBC.com

"The lawmaker has said his work will show how the Koran is "an inspiration for intolerance, murder and terror"."

I have read an english translation of most of the Koran and I have yet to find anything that signals inspiration to intolerance, murder, and terror...

Sure there are verses that talk about holy war or Jihaad. But usually before it or after it there are strict rules encompassing such acts along the lines of eye for an eye nothing more etc. In most cases it is even mentioned to do this as last resort but not as the first offense. But brutal out right violence is shunned upon. War is only permitted if attacked but provoking war is wrong, from what I understood.

Now those retards living in caves in the mid east have given the religion a bad image and Wilders is playing off that same ignorance those guys promote and brainwash people into. If anyone has a mis-interpretation of the Koran and is using it to instill violence it's those guys... but for the most part the people I know of the faith are also against violence and don't see why so called scholars are preaching it as an excuse to kill... so sad.

"Inside the pages of the book are shown images of atrocities in Muslim countries that the film-maker thinks are inspired by verses of the Koran."

Not sure if is taking about the Koran showing images because if he is then he is looking at some other book, the Koran has NO images in it. But odd thing is that he THINKS are inspired. Did this guy read the Koran cover to cover or just pulling **** out his ass?
 
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JaFO

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Nov 5, 2000
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And what? They killed Pim, they killed Theo...
First of all "they" did not kill Pim (Fortuyn).
That was the work of one insane person that wasn't even related to the Islam or its fanatics.

Theo van Gogh (who directed a more artistic anti-Islam short film, which somehow didn't quite provoke the same reaction) was murdered by a suicidal maniac (who was planning to get shot by the police afterwards) that claimed to be a muslim fanatic.

// ---
I think that every religion has enough quotes that can make it look evil.
The ff-ing bible has god asking a father to kill his own child as a mere 'test'.
Heck ... just look at what Christians did during the crusades or the inquisition in 'the name of God(tm)'.

I have no doubt that the Tora, Khoran and every other book that is the primary source of a religion/political movement can be used to justify murder, rape and whatever atrocities you can think of (and then some).

//
Mozi said:
Not sure if is taking about the Koran showing images because if he is then he is looking at some other book, the Koran has NO images in it. But odd thing is that he THINKS are inspired. Did this guy read the Koran cover to cover or just pulling **** out his ass?
I think they're referring to how the movie will be.
In van Gogh's movie they showed verses of the Khoran on a naked female body or something similar.
And of course they've not read the book. They're like children opening the bible looking for words like 'sex' and other funny words.
In other words : they've looked for every possible 'bad' sentence and magnified it to make it look as if that stuff is the only thing.
 

Vers Vlees

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Nov 30, 2002
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I think JaFO pretty much sums it all up.
Geert Wilders can be such a cry baby and a friggin attention WHORE. If you try to critize him then you are nothing more then a Terrorist lover. Pim Fortuyn was always in for a discussion but Wilders isnt. He says something offending about Islam being evil or crap like that and if people want to into discussion he ignores them. I mean everytime he loses media attention hes says something moronic just to get some attention at all. Its quite sad actually.

The thing with Geert Wilders is he cant lose with this movie. You see if the governement bans the movie or obstructs him. He'll cry about Oh my gosh you see the hague submits to terror and threats.Or Oh noes Freedom of expression in distress thus gaining support from the people.
But If he releases his movie there is bound to be riots and mayhem with angry muslims breaking things because they seriously have some anger management issues. And he can say:You see what kind of savages they are vote for me my party will solve everything and yet again will he become more popular.

Kaithofis does have a point sure there is freedom of expression but doesnt mean you have to say it. I dont think you need a crappy movie to know that some muslims have anger management problems. The only reason he is making the movie is to become more popular.

Its also funny when Geert Wilders talks about freedom of expression and how he would defend Western Values etc. This guy will change or remove the first article of the dutch constitution (which states that all people are equal) if it allows him to make Muslims and non whites essentially 2nd class citizens. Not to mention The party for the (Vrijheid)FREEDOM is in favor of more restrictive regulations on abortion, soft drugs etc, deconstruct the social system and create a massive police force. I mean for a party with the word Freedom his party program has a lot of bans and restrictions. But I guess most people think they will only apply to muslims and non whites.

With that being said on the other hand I think Muslims should seriously cool down a bit. I mean if you see the kind blasphemic use of Jezus and God in our popular culture. (Family guy, Southpark for example)
I'm also kinda pissed that Geert Wilders needs security because he talks **** about Islam just because some retarded muslim extremists dont like what he says. Sure there is a lot of thing wrongs with the islam but making a crappy offending movie isnt going to solve anything.
 
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Persefone

Ms God!
Jun 2, 2005
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Funny that you bring up the freedom of speech argument though. Just because you can do it, doesn't make it a good thing to do.
Hell, I can go to Hell's Angels HQ and call them all a bunch of ****ing ****suckers. I'll cause a riot and send myself to hospital, but hey, at least I STOOD UP FOR MY RIGHTS EFF YEAH!
Not that the Hell's Angels ever bothered me with anything, but at least I proved that they can be aggressive when provoked! Surely I deserve to be prime-minister and the subject of headlines now...

So please explain this problem we supposedly have with Muslims and the Islam, because I don't understand why we want to insult them yet again.

But you didn´t go to Hell´s Angels HQ, the Hell´s Angels came to your home. And if you aren´t bothered by the crime rate the brought with them, well, I don´t know what to say…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocU5x_03MDM

I have read an english translation of most of the Koran and I have yet to find anything that signals inspiration to intolerance, murder, and terror...

I think you can find some passages on an eastbound circle-line surface between Liverpool Street and Aldgate, on a westbound circle-line sub-surface between Edgware Road and Paddington, on a southbound Piccadilly Line and in Tavistock Square.


Now those retards living in caves in the mid east…
No, they´re living in the Islamic Republic of England. The UK has imported some of them but the vast majority of them were born in British ground. That´s integration and is valid for every European country.
First of all "they" did not kill Pim (Fortuyn).
That was the work of one insane person that wasn't even related to the Islam or its fanatics.

He killed Fortuyn because “his ideas about the Islam were dangerous”. The invaders (saracens) were offended, the PvdA and the VVD marked the target, and a retarded leftist executed.
I must agree that having ideas about the Islam is dangerous indeed.
Theo van Gogh (who directed a more artistic anti-Islam short film, which somehow didn't quite provoke the same reaction) was murdered by a suicidal maniac (who was planning to get shot by the police afterwards) that claimed to be a muslim fanatic.

From the Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)#Aftermath
Mohammed Bouyeri murdered Van Gogh in the early morning of Tuesday November 2, 2004, in Amsterdam, in front of the Amsterdam East borough office (stadsdeelkantoor) on the corner of the Linnaeusstraat and Tweede Oosterparkstraat, while he was bicycling to work. He shot him eight times with an HS 2000 handgun, and Van Gogh died on the spot. Bouyeri then cut Van Gogh's throat, nearly decapitating him, and stabbed him in the chest. Two knives were left implanted in his torso, one attaching a five-page note to his body. The note (Text) threatened Western governments, Jews and Ayaan Hirsi Ali (who went into hiding). The note also contained references to the ideologies of the Egyptian organization Takfir wal-Hijra.
The references on the note (actually a five pages letter), signed “in name of Allah”, consisted of threats to Western Governments, the Jews, and the unbelievers on their pedophile prophet. In other words everybody that isn´t an Islamist.
And we must tolerate this people in our country, our home. Ask them for tolerance. The only crime you need to commit for being killed is to be an “unbeliever”.

Imam Fawaz of the as-Sunnah Mosque in The Hague gave a sermon several weeks before the murder in which he called Theo van Gogh, "a 'criminal bastard' and beseech[ed] Allah to visit an incurable disease upon the filmmaker."
Hey! The Hell´s Angels have their HQ in Holland and they aren´t bothered bothering us.

I think that every religion has enough quotes that can make it look evil.
The ff-ing bible has god asking a father to kill his own child as a mere 'test'.
Heck ... just look at what Christians did during the crusades or the inquisition in 'the name of God(tm)'.

I have no doubt that the Tora, Khoran and every other book that is the primary source of a religion/political movement can be used to justify murder, rape and whatever atrocities you can think of (and then some).
Look at what the Islamists did before the crusades, during the crusades and after the crusades (the fall of Byzantium for example).
Look at what the Islamists do right now.
The difference is that In the present time, the Christians aren´t planning massacres against the unbelievers. The Jews don´t rape children because their unveiled face is an offense to their beliefs. The Muslims do while the Western societies prefer to turn a blind eye on it.
 

Kaithofis

The Seldom Seen Kid
But you didn´t go to Hell´s Angels HQ, the Hell´s Angels came to your home. And if you aren´t bothered by the crime rate the brought with them, well, I don´t know what to say…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocU5x_03MDM

I'm sorry, but never has a muslim come to my house and beat me up. Never in my life has a muslim treated me badly. I've been robbed once though, by 2 Dutch blokes. Unfortunately the words and actions of people like Geert Wilders have convinced you that the Islam is a threat to our safety and society. Funny that you even link to a video that displays peaceful protests by Muslims. You plead for the freedom of speech a few posts ago, right? Then why are these protests a problem?

I'm sorry that you feel that we are threatened or being invaded my Muslims or the Islam, when there's really no need to. And to say that Muslims are responsible for the higher crime rate today is just plain stupid. It doesn't have a single thing to do with their religious beliefs. People steal because they can't afford to buy. People can't afford to buy because they can't get a decent job. And foreigners here can't get a decent job because people like YOU keep discriminating against them.
Again, you're creating the problem yourself and you're blaming it on "them", which is exactly what Geert Wilders is doing with this movie.
 
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tomcat ha

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Feb 2, 2002
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I have not heard of that but I know that drawing the attention of islamist fundamentalists is easy. Just draw a picture of Mohammed and you're in for some serious jihad.

Only if you have someone like iran to instigate it...

And if you actually look at this entire supposed islam vs west thing you see its just another one of those political conflicts.

Kind of like this:

Complicated situation in israel. Some palestines go resist with violence and bomb a school in jerusalem to try make israel stop occupying them. Use religion as a extra reason or more of a weak excuse. Israel starts propaganda machine to get support and uses this incident. Western media states oh look terrorist attack on innocent jews. Portrays the palestines as muslim extremists because that makes westerners feel superiour. Palestines feel hurt and start thinking western countries support israel and thus start thinking about attacking the west.

Its a vicious circle with no solution.
 

Persefone

Ms God!
Jun 2, 2005
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I'm sorry, but never has a muslim come to my house and beat me up. Never in my life has a muslim treated me badly. I've been robbed once though, by 2 Dutch blokes. Unfortunately the words and actions of people like Geert Wilders have convinced you that the Islam is a threat to our safety and society. Funny that you even link to a video that displays peaceful protests by Muslims. You plead for the freedom of speech a few posts ago, right? Then why are these protests a problem?

As far the victim is other everything is okay for you, isn´t it?. The words an actions of muslims is what convinced me that they are a threat. Two comments about the video. First, I linked the video to show that muslims say wathever they please about the western and we don´t blow up their mosques but if someone is critic with Islam then we must prepare for attacks. Second, where the hell do you see peaceful muslims?:con:

Kaithofis said:
I'm sorry that you feel that we are threatened or being invaded my Muslims or the Islam, when there's really no need to. And to say that Muslims are responsible for the higher crime rate today is just plain stupid. It doesn't have a single thing to do with their religious beliefs. People steal because they can't afford to buy. People can't afford to buy because they can't get a decent job. And foreigners here can't get a decent job because people like YOU keep discriminating against them.
Again, you're creating the problem yourself and you're blaming it on "them", which is exactly what Geert Wilders is doing with this movie.

Saying that the constant terrorist menace over all the Europeans countries has nothing to do with muslims or religion beliefs is a clear sign that your simply are willing to ignore the facts. I can wait to see how you explain this. I suposse that you will pass aswell over the fact that muslims leads rape statistics in Europe and that their preferred victim is always a Western woman/girl. These are hate crimes, it is racism, it is intolerance, it is supremacism. I can post here cases of women cut because they were 'unbelivers', 'impures' and of course, 'women'.
I never discriminited them (how I could?), I never attacked them and I never said a word about Islam before one of your poor muslims splitted me in the face a called me whore because I was unveiled.
I don´t mind if they cannot get a job, for me they can go back to the dessert if so decadence they think our society is.

It`s for traitors like YOU I can´t walk safe in my own country, with is MY HOME NOT THEIRS.
 

Mozi

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Apr 12, 2002
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Second, where the hell do you see peaceful muslims?:con:


There are plenty of them, it just that the bad apples that are blinded give all of them a bad name... and those inhumane acts they do get more attention in the world news.

I really feel bad about that, and if I were in a position where all I saw were the wrong doings of Muslims that are in fact hypocritical to their faith and will probably burn in hell for preaching bull **** then yeah I would think that all Muslims are not peaceful people...

I have seen some really crazy Christian people that say some crazy **** about other faiths, and ideals. But as a reasonable person I know I can not judge that the entire Christian faith and the different sects of it are all like this.

As to your second point... that's messed up if Muslims in Europe are attacking women because it's hypocritical to the faith. As I mentioned that I have read the Koran and there is a whole chapter dedicated to respecting women and the rights that they have in Muslim societies. Yes it does talk about covering up and wearing scarfs etc, but it is a matter of choice.

I know some Muslim families that women don't wear scarfs and are quite 'progressive' in the sense that they wear normal clothes like jeans and all.. and no one says anything or attacks them. Anyways point is forcing it is wrong, and forcing it and attacking a women of another faith or nationality is extremely wrong.

Persefone you have every right to say what you did, but I hope that you also look at this issue with reason and some tolerance than stereotyping all people of this religion.

People that do that kind of thing need to be shot because they are not helping anyone. They too need to see things with reason and tolerance and understand that not everyone in the world needs to act to their standards and brain washed beliefs...
 

Vers Vlees

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He killed Fortuyn because “his ideas about the Islam were dangerous”. The invaders (saracens) were offended, the PvdA and the VVD marked the target, and a retarded leftist executed.

Going all conspiracy mode eh dont forget to wear your aluminium cap. That geezer was leftist animal rights activist. A retared loner that guy certainly wasnt a Saracen.

Look at what the Islamists did before the crusades, during the crusades and after the crusades (the fall of Byzantium for example).

I suggest you go read a history book. During the 4th crusade in 1204 the crusaders sacking of Constantinopel kinda killed the Eastern Romanoi Empire. The plunder of Constantinopel accelerated the downfall of the Romanoi Empire making it easy target. The Turks simply gave the last push in 1453.
Empires rise and fall this is how it goes. Besides Islam certainly in that era wasnt the only religion who spread faith by the sword.
 

JaFO

bugs are features too ...
Nov 5, 2000
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Never mind that in that era the Muslim warriors/knights could write and read while most 'Christian' knights couldn't even read ...
One of my co-workers once said that during the crusades we set their entire culture back by 500 years and they're still trying to catch up to the rest of the world.

// Persefone
If and only if the rape-statistics indicate that a majority of the people committing them are muslim/maroccan/whatever that does not indicate that it is because of their faith/morals. They simply are at a level in society were law isn't taken as serious.
Never mind that I haven't read about such rapes even happening here in the Netherlands.

Speaking of parasites ... a co-worker of mine has an aunt that manages to make a living by growing weed and she still collects her social welfare checks and goes to the 'foodbank' (sp?) because she feels she 'deserves' those things despite the fact that she makes enough money to buy plasma tv's and similar luxury items. The immigrated parasites just tend to be more visible, but that doesn't mean that they're in the majority.

Oh ... and I see dozens of 'normal' muslims every day as well, but they don't try to sell their faith to me.
They're also not even quite as irritating as the Christian guy that is screaming his 'god/jezus is great'-stuff every day in the centre of town.