clarification please.

[Lord_Bunker]

is inf just solely and strickly a military sim? many claim it is not intended to be a police or ct/terrorist sim. it's also supposed to be extremely realistic.

i want to argue this. inf is the most realistic mod on the planet as well as one of the best. but i think that calling it a strickly military sim is unrealistic. in many of the maps and situations the military dosn't belong as much as a police unit would, or the def, fbi, or a number of other organizations. take cuban dawn. you have one countries military defending a bunch of stolen mint plates and some drugs. you have a nother countries military trying to destroy these things. i've never heard of one country trying to steal anothers plates.

in addition and probably the biggest thing, ut allows a max of 32 players. for balanced play you would need 16 players on each side. if you consider a map like hillbase or anyother map eiht a loarge instalation i don't think the military would trust this base to be defended by just 16 people.

tell me what you think.

it's only temporary till i get my own ghillie finished.

 

[Anon]

I dunno, I reckon the first part of your question could be a bit hard to answer. Though the military may be called on at times to deal with a situation that may, ordinarily be given over to a law enforcement agency. It's hardly likely that, even given an invasion, that someone is gonna rob a texas bank, wearing full combats, webbing etc.
But does that mean that a level such as that should be handed over to Tactical Opsso that a more realistic "looking" scenario may be played out?
Having said that, given an invasion, I suppose a military team could wearing full kit, could "realistically" hold up in a bank?
Theres so many things that could be said on these points. But really, if you like a map it's up to you, not to worry that that "such n such", wouldn't be wearing "such n such", in in "such n such" a situation."
Either that or you don't play that map, because you don't think the situation is realistic enough or to your liking. Blah, blah bleh...

Heh... I love playing Texas Bank, and I dont worry too much that the chances of two fully equipped military forces clashing in there are minimal.

Basically you'd have to use player models wearing jeans and t-shirts in some of these situations, to make them appear 100% realistic again?
Humph! Brings Tac Op's to mind again, *Yawn*
Though i Personally wouldn't mind seeing a raghead or two running about at some stage in the future.

Yuck! you asked a horrible question there dude.
An I reckon my answer is probably just full o' ****. Haha... Oh well.

Anyway, About the money plate thing. It would be a good Idea for any foreign power to have in its possesion, another countries money plates.
These could be used for a number of things, a sh't load of things in fact. Drugs, guns, spies, real estate and mafia etc. all spring to mind immediatly.
Also depending on the wealth and the size of the victim countries economy etc. That country could be brought to its knees over a period of time due to the fact that money which doesnt actually exist is being printed continuously by the offender. You'd have to know what you were doing though if you wanted to cripple a country in this way. But again the possibilities here are endless?
So I reckon, depending on the situation it is definatly possible that a government would call upon its army to get its plates back??

The last thing you mention is the easiest to give an opinion on.
If you want there to be more than 16 opponants on the enemy force, give them five or ten lives each,
this will give you a veritable army to quash. As they will keep coming once you've killed 'em.
Heh.. Unbalance teams aswell, then your four man team could go in and kick some very serious ass.

Alternativly, you could wait until Technology is such that the guys are able to release the, by then eagerly awaited "Armageddon expansion pack".

WHEN THE SH'T GOES DOWN.....

 

[Speak]

Personally, I think that INF would be better suited to the new Unreal engine stuff (ie landscape and things like that). Only on something like that would INF look like a genuine realistic, military type action. (Kinda Delta Force style, with dozens of people on each team)
Unfortunately, outdoor maps are (as most people know) difficult to make convincingly.
It doesnt really work, making rolling landscape out of squares and plain flat faces...

Just stick it out till the new U-Tech comes along!
[Theres another good reason not to follow strike force and go to a new engine]

-"One Clip, One Kill"-

 

[Unicorn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>take cuban dawn. you have one countries military defending a bunch of stolen mint plates and some drugs. you have a nother countries military trying to destroy these things. i've never heard of one country trying to steal anothers plates.[/quote]

From what I remember, the Nazis had a plan to devalue the British pound by dumping vast piles of fake notes into the country during WWII, and I've seen claims that some nation in the Middle East was pumping out almost perfect copies of high-denomination US notes a few years ago. So it doesn't seem totally unrealistic.

 

[the real pacman]

Thats what I understood, sometimes millitary operations do include that sort of thing.

I have found it!
What terrified me will terrify others;
and I need only describe the spectre
which had haunted my midnight pillow.
~Mary Shelly

 

[ThunderChunky]

I may be wrong on this...

But I think it is against the rules for a law enforcement agency (such as a SWAT team or other Police unit) to go on foreign soil... hence the military intervention.

That's just what I think, though.

-------------------------------------------
Stupid People Offend Me.

"The most costly of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind" -H.L. Mencken

 

[TimTim]

Even if the minting example exists, would the military be called into to fight another country's military over drugs? I agree with Bunker.

 

[The_Fur]

vack to the bank, just change the player skins and they fit right in, you could have robbers dressed in ct grey for instance robbing the bank with military grade weapons since all those wapons and the suits are available to them, then you could have the ct's wearing for instce ct blue as ct teams since that kind of looks police-ish. Allthe skins are there, it's just a matter of combining the right skin with the right map.


Crosshairs are for wimps

Killing stupid people is not just a hobby, it's a way of life.

 

[the real pacman]

Uhhh yeah... Something like that... And it is against the rules for SWAT teams to go on foreign soil.

I have found it!
What terrified me will terrify others;
and I need only describe the spectre
which had haunted my midnight pillow.
~Mary Shelly

 

[oswaldonion]

timtim - there have been quite a few military operations against drug manufacturing in south american countries where they usually fight against private/mercenary armies which are owned and run by the 'cartels'

 

[ShakKen]

Indeed the military tends to put these things into scope as well. Around the time of the gulf war, the SAS sent people into columbia to train soldiers to fight the drug war. Also participating in ops from time to time.

 

[Col.Sanders]

Unicorn:
Yes, just saw that Nazi-money-making scheme on Dateline. The equilvalent of 4 billion british pounds today (roughly 8 billion dollars) was printed by the Nazis using skilled prison laborer. Guess who.

BTW: notice in INF we have to pay for our weapons? Soldiers don't buy their guns.... but mercenaries have to.

 

[HanD_of_DarKNesS]

Col.Sanders is right. There shouldn't be a cost factor in INF. I realize that until bulk is implemented, cost works fine. But once bulk is implemented, there shouldn't be a money factor.

Does the military actually say each soldier can only carry $X value of equipment? Not likely. The loadouts will be kept simple by the bulk. If you're carrying a 25lb sniper rifle with ammo, and a sidearm, you're up to 40lbs+. Add armour of some sort (likely light with a sniper), and you're weighed down enough to feel it. I doubt anyone would be willing to throw a SMG with ammo on as well, or they couldn't move at all (and if they're stupid enough to do so, they'll find out the disadvantage of it real quick).

------------------------------
"In the shadows of
death; I lurk. I am the
Darkness that
consumes you all."

 

[ThunderChunky]

Money...

Armies have budgets. They are limited in the amount that they can give out. They won't tell you directly that you can only carry so much gear, but instead will issue it to you.

I can assume that is why armies are not using the G11 and other higher quality weapons (cost and ammunition incompatibilities as far as I know).

Cost and bulk together will provide a very good way of balancing each others' loadouts.

-------------------------------------------
Stupid People Offend Me.

"The most costly of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind" -H.L. Mencken

 

[I_ABuGa]

SAS 22nd Regiment stationed in Hereford. Counter-Insurgency, -Terrorism and -Revolutionary forces. Fought the PIRA in Ireland and participated or helped in numerous actions against other terrorist groups in multiple locations around the world.

Last I checked, the SAS are military. The use of military forces in civil law enforcement is controversial however, and this is acknowledged by the SAS regiment and the UK government as well.

 

[Lord_Bunker]

yes, the military does occasionally get involved in law enforcment issues but still, wouldn't it make more sense to see a swat team in some of those situations. we already have the nessisary weapons so all we need is the model. my primary reason for rasing this argument is that many times whenever someone suggest that they add something like flashbangs somebody usually argues back that inf is a military simulation and that flashbangs wouldn't do the military much good as well as many of the military vs police sniper arguments. As a game this would also add more diversity and fun.

and i think the g11 wasn't a problem because of funding. the reason it's expensive now is because it wasn't ever mass produced. if h&k had gotten a contract for it they would have put it into mass production and the cost would have dropped significantly.

it's only temporary till i get my own ghillie finished.

 

[Col.Sanders]

Whoa! =DarKNesS=, don't put words in my mouth. I was pointing out that INF may be a military simulation, but that does not imply federally funded armies. The world is full of gray areas....

Plus, the cost limit prevents everyone from hauling the PSG-1 around like a trailer. Cost is the hidden dimension, which CS lost. The AK rocks because it is cheap and good enough. You have to spend a lot of money to get better than the AK.

And maybe the cost will keep people away from the HK weapons systems. They are nice, but are often two times the cost of similar weapons.

 

[Snakeye]

Lst time I checked the roadmap - and because of server limitations this is a long time - I saw a terrorist model planned. So calling inf a solely military mod might not be true.

But anti terrorist forces are not only police(SWAT aso are usually against criminals in the own country); the military has some of the best CT troops available, including the SAS and the SEALs and Delta etc..
Now these troops are not strictly anti-terrorist, but they can be used as such.

Going back to INF, I think it is neither a military only, nor a CT/T only, but has the capability to do both. Some models could get SWAT skins(guess this would even work with the soldier model..), the terrorist model(if there still is one planned) could also be used as criminal, and voila, we have a bankrobbery.

Maybe some of you should open your minds and stop thinking in CT/T only or military only terms - why only one, if the team gives us both?

Snakeye

anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing

 

[I_ABuGa]

Dont the SAS use flashbangs? BTW, who made the flashbangs anyway?

 

[ShakKen]

Royal Ordnance built the first modern sound & light distraction device I believe.