geogob
Koohii o nomimasu ka?
sir_edmond said:
You can count up to 30 don't ya? I've learned that in preschool myself.
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"Check Mag" Function
- Thread starter Buddz
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You can count up to 30 don't ya? I've learned that in preschool myself.
IIRC the NCO said "count!", the other option is the method Tiffy described.
For INF...
I don't think there are more than 3 colors needed. Like Tiffy said: an average soldier can't tell if a mag is full or empty by just weight particularly if it is a weapon he is unfamiliar with. And additionally - for my G3 I had steel and thinner sheet-metal magazines. Blindfolded I couldn't even say full or empty
@ Jaunty, even the old Walther P1 9mm I used at the Bundeswehr had counting holes in the magazine
For INF...
- When in doubt ... swap mags (I do that all the time when I've lost count of whats left in a mag) - Zündy
- count your bursts in your head. You get about 5 bursts out of a 30rd magazine if you have it set to auto (Which you shouldn't. Auto is for cowards and people who can't aim.) If you lose count or don't know, assume that you're on your last round - Jaunty
I don't think there are more than 3 colors needed. Like Tiffy said: an average soldier can't tell if a mag is full or empty by just weight particularly if it is a weapon he is unfamiliar with. And additionally - for my G3 I had steel and thinner sheet-metal magazines. Blindfolded I couldn't even say full or empty
@ Jaunty, even the old Walther P1 9mm I used at the Bundeswehr had counting holes in the magazine
Attachments
TitanBlue said:
A text of "full, half, or empty" with the appropriate color code to match, would achieve the same effect. You would pick up a stray mag or clip, it would then register in your hud, and by the color and symbol you know instantly if it's a keeper or not.
I'm also partial to the idea of having a symbol perhaps of the specific magazine itself appear in the hud, with one of the three colors (and instead of the fractions) there could be three levels superimposed upon the magazine with the color level determining it's contents.
Picture the mag symbol looking almost like a traffic light, with red on the bottom, yellow in the middle, and green at the top. This way you would know at a glance of the color whether to use that clip right then, throw it back, or save it for later. In any event, good idea there.
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A little adendum to my last post: The way I see it this feature would be primarily usefull for weapons you pick up. Not all servers have "drop ammo" enabled so you only get the weapon. In one game I ran out of ammo on Frozen and picked up the shotgun the guy I spend my last ammo on dropped. Only the weapon. I can tell if I have one shot in the shotty but that's it. Was a weird feeling to walk through those corridors with a possible one shot weapon.
For the weapons you bring to battle I fully agree with the two quotes TitanBlue put in his post and that's the way I handle it. Of course you can't make differnt HUDs for your own weapons and the ones you pick up that's why I'm for some form of ammo counter in general.
If something like 3/3, 2/3, 1/3 is the way you want to implement it I suggest to add a (big) random user estimation error to it.
There's another method to tell how much ammo you have. Unload the magazine and start counting. Sure it takes a lot of time and you are probably dead before you're finished but if the unloading can be interrupted (do I have more than 3 shot? yes fine start loading again) it would be better than no way to tell at all.... or so I guess. Maybe. Or not. Just an idea. Any thoughts on that?/You may now unpack the flamethrowers.
For the weapons you bring to battle I fully agree with the two quotes TitanBlue put in his post and that's the way I handle it. Of course you can't make differnt HUDs for your own weapons and the ones you pick up that's why I'm for some form of ammo counter in general.
If something like 3/3, 2/3, 1/3 is the way you want to implement it I suggest to add a (big) random user estimation error to it.
There's another method to tell how much ammo you have. Unload the magazine and start counting. Sure it takes a lot of time and you are probably dead before you're finished but if the unloading can be interrupted (do I have more than 3 shot? yes fine start loading again) it would be better than no way to tell at all.... or so I guess. Maybe. Or not. Just an idea. Any thoughts on that?/You may now unpack the flamethrowers.
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I disagree. No one wants to die cause their unlucky number came up and told them their mag was full when it was empty. Besides, in a case like that there's no room for error since you would plainly see there were no rounds in the mag.Hadmar said:
I don't think the levels should represent actual fractions. More like a rough judgement; empty, near empty, atleast half full. Something along those lines. Random errors wouldn't be needed, because you wouldn't know exactly what numbers a reading represented. Even just nearly empty, you could have 1 round or you could have 6.
Not knowing the exact number of rounds but having a hint was the idea of the "traffic-light". Rough rudgement - sure, but somehow the engine has to know when to display which status, either by fractions or by a set number of rounds left in the magazine.
BTW I don't like the idea of a too easy "check magazine at a glance". This is an unfair advantage for people which have a problem with fire-control. There is no help if you can't aim - just training. So there shouldn't be a too big help if you can't count.
Another Idea - Since we can't put the rounds of two magazines in one (was discussed and explained by Beppo before the crash, perhaps a good suggestion for 3.0) the player could pick-up magazines only if they have at least 25% (or 3 rounds, or something like that) left. This could be a client-side option, so everyone could use it or not.
BTW I don't like the idea of a too easy "check magazine at a glance". This is an unfair advantage for people which have a problem with fire-control. There is no help if you can't aim - just training. So there shouldn't be a too big help if you can't count.
Another Idea - Since we can't put the rounds of two magazines in one (was discussed and explained by Beppo before the crash, perhaps a good suggestion for 3.0) the player could pick-up magazines only if they have at least 25% (or 3 rounds, or something like that) left. This could be a client-side option, so everyone could use it or not.
I don't mean completely random.
3/3 = 30
2/3 = 20
1/3 = 10
You need a point where you switch from one display to the other. One way would be:
21 to 30 = 3/3
11 to 20 = 2/3
0 to 10 = 1/3
Let the estimation error be a number from +/- 0 to 5 bullets. Let's assume we "rolled" an error of +3. That would mean for this round and that mag type the display would change acording to this:
24 to 30 = 3/3
14 to 23 = 2/3
0 to 13 = 1/3
That way you can't say "wee the display just changed, I have exactly 20 bullets left".
*edit*You can replace the 1/3, 2/3, 3/3 with quite empt, almost empty, half full/half empty ( ) etc the problem remains that the moment the display changes one knows exactly how much ammo is left if you don't introduce some random error.
3/3 = 30
2/3 = 20
1/3 = 10
You need a point where you switch from one display to the other. One way would be:
21 to 30 = 3/3
11 to 20 = 2/3
0 to 10 = 1/3
Let the estimation error be a number from +/- 0 to 5 bullets. Let's assume we "rolled" an error of +3. That would mean for this round and that mag type the display would change acording to this:
24 to 30 = 3/3
14 to 23 = 2/3
0 to 13 = 1/3
That way you can't say "wee the display just changed, I have exactly 20 bullets left".
*edit*You can replace the 1/3, 2/3, 3/3 with quite empt, almost empty, half full/half empty (
) etc the problem remains that the moment the display changes one knows exactly how much ammo is left if you don't introduce some random error.
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I should have mentioned above...
you would only see the "magazine indicator," with appropriate color coded level telling you if it's full, half, or (near) empty when *first picking up* the mag or clip, and only then, otherwise it would not appear in the hud at all.
Also, OICW mentioned a dot?
you would only see the "magazine indicator," with appropriate color coded level telling you if it's full, half, or (near) empty when *first picking up* the mag or clip, and only then, otherwise it would not appear in the hud at all.
Also, OICW mentioned a dot?
OICW said:
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Beppo
Infiltration Lead-Programmer
Probs I have with any type of 'ammo counter' or 'traffic light system' is that someone will check out the codes and values and then will know exactly how many rounds are left inside. What about smaller mags for the pistols or the RC.50?? If you divide the available amount into three 'groups' you end up very very close to the actual number. So the traffic light system would end up to be very precise and then you can setup a full ammo counter then too cause it would only look like a shiatty feature then.
Randomness would only stirr up trouble cause even for medium mag sizes it can give you a false impression and can switch from 'yellow' to 'red' easily... and forget randomness for the pistol mags fully... the only difference you would get would be one or two rounds or empty and full.
In addition ... maybe you guys never noticed but ammo you pick up, gives you the EXACT amount of rounds left within presented on your HUD... maybe watch it a bit closer.
So, the only 'problem' is that a weapon you pick up does not 'tell' you how many rounds are left within the mag or if a 40mm is loaded or not.
Well, one way would be to pickup another mag or weapon of the same type to get another magazine to reload and then drop the second mag to pick it back up again to get the amount of this one then. The other one has to have more or the same amount of rounds left within cause the soldier automagically grabs the fullest mag on reload every time. Sure, not a perfect method, but one that works if you have another mag available. The time needed for this comes close to actually counting the rounds within I guess.
For the case you have no spare mag somewhere... well... the world isn't perfect
So no need to add any type of ammo counter into INF in my opinion.
Beppo
Randomness would only stirr up trouble cause even for medium mag sizes it can give you a false impression and can switch from 'yellow' to 'red' easily... and forget randomness for the pistol mags fully... the only difference you would get would be one or two rounds or empty and full.
In addition ... maybe you guys never noticed but ammo you pick up, gives you the EXACT amount of rounds left within presented on your HUD... maybe watch it a bit closer.
So, the only 'problem' is that a weapon you pick up does not 'tell' you how many rounds are left within the mag or if a 40mm is loaded or not.
Well, one way would be to pickup another mag or weapon of the same type to get another magazine to reload and then drop the second mag to pick it back up again to get the amount of this one then. The other one has to have more or the same amount of rounds left within cause the soldier automagically grabs the fullest mag on reload every time. Sure, not a perfect method, but one that works if you have another mag available. The time needed for this comes close to actually counting the rounds within I guess.
For the case you have no spare mag somewhere... well... the world isn't perfect
So no need to add any type of ammo counter into INF in my opinion.
Beppo
You are right, I didn't notice that. Well I did but it seems I always picked up full magazines so I though it shows the maximum ammount of ammo and not the current ammount.Beppo said:
That's nice......Yupp...Beppo said:
... but the world isn't perfect on servers where ammo drop is disabled a bit to often.Beppo said:For the case you have no spare mag somewhere... well... the world isn't perfect
Sollution: Add the aviable ammo display you already have for magazines to weapons you pick up and I would be all against the ammo counter that's suggested here. (Well maybe the manual remove-magazine-remove-ammo-start-counting that noone commentet on yet (where are the flames. I'm freezing over here) would be nice... hehe
)Oh, and may I suggest that the number isn't displayed for weapons and magazines that where dropped by yourself? We don't want people to abuse that feature, do we?
Beppo
Infiltration Lead-Programmer
Well the abusage would be ok I guess... cause the time needed to drop your weapon or magazines and to pick them back up can be a very valueable one and noone would do this in a tense situation. So it would be enough time needed for this 'normally'.
Ok a slight abusage if a mix of keypresses is bound to a single key to ie kneel down, then look down, then drop weapon, then grab ... could be a problem then. But to not allow to use this feature for your own weapon would be a bit much and would only complicate things and would maybe even bring up weird 'solutions' (ie two guys tossing their weapon to each other aso).
Ok a slight abusage if a mix of keypresses is bound to a single key to ie kneel down, then look down, then drop weapon, then grab ... could be a problem then. But to not allow to use this feature for your own weapon would be a bit much and would only complicate things and would maybe even bring up weird 'solutions' (ie two guys tossing their weapon to each other aso).
Beppo, I didn't think that it takes enough time that it's worth mentioning so I just testet it. I have throw weapon bound to my middle mouse button (that's my standard keybind, I didn't have to change anything for this test) and use to backspace. I only have to look a bit down and can throw/pickup faster than I can read which weapon I just picked up. I'd still say restict it. The two guys juggling with their weapons is a funny thought, though. Maybe it's possible to make it so that it's only shown for weapons that noone held in hands for a certain ammount of time.
Maybe it's possible to make it so that it's only shown for weapons that noone held in hands for a certain ammount of time.
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Beppo, keep in mind the "ammo counter" system doesn't have to be the same for all types of mags. With small mags like pistol or robar mags, you could just have a simple "heavy or light" reading, or none at all. Also, even if the user knows the number ranges for each reading, he still doesn't know the exact number. IE if you only have 3 readings for an AR mag (heavy, light, empty) and the indicator says "light" (lets just assume for a moment that the line between light and heavy is at half of the mag) then you still don't know if you have 15 rounds or 1 round. And, if you opt for a more lopsided aproach (ie light is 5 rounds or less and everything else is heavy) then you still have a 25 round margin of error.
Beppo
Infiltration Lead-Programmer
Well if the error is a margin of 25 rounds then the system is pretty useless or?
Anyway, the only thing considerable would be to present a message for the amount of rounds that are available within the weapon you just picked up.
That it isn't empty can be seen already... all weapons that feature visible mags have a special pickup mesh version for the case they have no ammo left. Then the weapons will have no mag plugged in at all (only the pickup meshs of course). Again an indicator. At least this weapon will have one round left within, if it has a visible mag attached while lying on the ground.
Anyway, the only thing considerable would be to present a message for the amount of rounds that are available within the weapon you just picked up.
That it isn't empty can be seen already... all weapons that feature visible mags have a special pickup mesh version for the case they have no ammo left. Then the weapons will have no mag plugged in at all (only the pickup meshs of course). Again an indicator. At least this weapon will have one round left within, if it has a visible mag attached while lying on the ground.
