As i stated, these figures might not be accurate, but the P90 has a lot less recoil than a comparative 9mm weapon, such as the MP5. Plus, it is shorter, and has a longer barrel, and a larger capacity, and penetrates armor better, the MP5 simply IMO has nothing to offer in a contest between these weapons. The only bad thing is the magazines, if you drop a half empty mag, the rounds may be distorted and a jam may follow this.
Body Armor?
- Thread starter Elite_Soldier
- Start date
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The 5.7mm round is what I refer to as a 'jack of all trades, master of none' round. It has good armor piercing capabilities, but then again, so do some types of 9mm ammunition. Case in point, Arcanes, which are cone pointed and are fired at high velocity giving them, the ability to go though ballistic plates, engine blocks and etc. The 5.7mm alledgedly has decent stopping power, which the 9mm has, and when certain ammunition types are used, 9mm has pretty awesome stopping power out of the barrel of lets say your typical SMG with a 7-8 inch barrel.
The 5.7mm round has low recoil impulse. But only an insignificant amount in comparison to 115 grain 9mm ball. Not 'a lot less' as you say.
5.7mm subsonic may be quieter, but it's terminal ballistics are inferior to 9mm subsonic. Which by the way can be most selective given the huge variety of 9mm rounds out there.
Onto the platforms.
The P90 is shorter, yes. The MP5N/A5 varients are of variable length with sights close to the bore access for more precise shot placement. The P90's collimator sight is higher up on the bore axis. Needless to say not an advantage.
It holds more ammunition, yes. 50 round and 100 rounds beta-C magazines are available for MP5s. The P90 on the other hand, has it's magazine capacity limited by magazine space in the receiver itself.
The P90 has it's weight distrobuted about the pistol grip, which makes for easier pointing, unlike the MP5, which is front heavy but that in turn makes recoil easier to control. The MP5 has a low center of gravity due to the vertical magazine, which enhances stability. The P90's center of gravity is high up, which makes it unstable.
The P90 has an extremely shallow grip to frame angle. Which makes it compact, but makes it inversatile in handling. The MP5's grip angle makes for more comfortable handling and better point angles.
The P90 has a longer barrel yes, the MP5 fires a round that does not require a long barrel.
The P90 ejects brass downwards. While it makes things less complicated for left handed shooters being a bullpup, it also makes footing potentially hazardous for the user.
As you can see, the MP5 still has a lot going for it. So I must point out that a contest between the two is not as clearly defined as you might think. There are many reasons why the MP5 is still the dominant submachinegun the world over.
Mostly the fact because in features, execution and quality, it's simply better designed than anything else.
The 5.7mm round is what I refer to as a 'jack of all trades, master of none' round. It has good armor piercing capabilities, but then again, so do some types of 9mm ammunition. Case in point, Arcanes, which are cone pointed and are fired at high velocity giving them, the ability to go though ballistic plates, engine blocks and etc. The 5.7mm alledgedly has decent stopping power, which the 9mm has, and when certain ammunition types are used, 9mm has pretty awesome stopping power out of the barrel of lets say your typical SMG with a 7-8 inch barrel.
The 5.7mm round has low recoil impulse. But only an insignificant amount in comparison to 115 grain 9mm ball. Not 'a lot less' as you say.
5.7mm subsonic may be quieter, but it's terminal ballistics are inferior to 9mm subsonic. Which by the way can be most selective given the huge variety of 9mm rounds out there.
Onto the platforms.
The P90 is shorter, yes. The MP5N/A5 varients are of variable length with sights close to the bore access for more precise shot placement. The P90's collimator sight is higher up on the bore axis. Needless to say not an advantage.
It holds more ammunition, yes. 50 round and 100 rounds beta-C magazines are available for MP5s. The P90 on the other hand, has it's magazine capacity limited by magazine space in the receiver itself.
The P90 has it's weight distrobuted about the pistol grip, which makes for easier pointing, unlike the MP5, which is front heavy but that in turn makes recoil easier to control. The MP5 has a low center of gravity due to the vertical magazine, which enhances stability. The P90's center of gravity is high up, which makes it unstable.
The P90 has an extremely shallow grip to frame angle. Which makes it compact, but makes it inversatile in handling. The MP5's grip angle makes for more comfortable handling and better point angles.
The P90 has a longer barrel yes, the MP5 fires a round that does not require a long barrel.
The P90 ejects brass downwards. While it makes things less complicated for left handed shooters being a bullpup, it also makes footing potentially hazardous for the user.
As you can see, the MP5 still has a lot going for it. So I must point out that a contest between the two is not as clearly defined as you might think. There are many reasons why the MP5 is still the dominant submachinegun the world over.
Mostly the fact because in features, execution and quality, it's simply better designed than anything else.
An FN P90 can kill, an MP5 can kill. Both have a place in Infiltration.
I'm sure some people will prefer the way the P90 handles or aims ingame over the MP5, just like some people prefer the SIG over the M16 or vice versa.
I'm sure some people will prefer the way the P90 handles or aims ingame over the MP5, just like some people prefer the SIG over the M16 or vice versa.
dont speak too quickly. if a mapper were to make a great lvl that had a bay or cove you might very well see a shark or 2 in the water 
or hell "Seaworld Terrorists of the Deep"
or hell "Seaworld Terrorists of the Deep"
bulk?
what would be the bulk of a shark? like, 100?
a living shark should have a higher bulk rating than a dead one, as the living shark would thrash around and try to bite you instead of just being dead weight.
also, the iron sights on a shark are not very good. i would definitely want the ACOG.
-vecna99
what would be the bulk of a shark? like, 100?
a living shark should have a higher bulk rating than a dead one, as the living shark would thrash around and try to bite you instead of just being dead weight.
also, the iron sights on a shark are not very good. i would definitely want the ACOG.
-vecna99
Shakken, thanks a lot for a great post, i take back my argument, since you have proven to me what i had misunderstood
I still think the P90 is "better", but that's because i distrust SMGs generally, and the P90 is actually designed as a PDW, and not an actual front line combat weapon, as the MP5.....
Plus, it could be a bitch to get hold of 5.7 ammo if you're not part of a police or military organization, so for a merc, this could be a real pain in the...... And there is also a greatre variety of 9mm ammo. And it's probably a LOT cheaper than the 5.7mm.......
I still think the P90 is "better", but that's because i distrust SMGs generally, and the P90 is actually designed as a PDW, and not an actual front line combat weapon, as the MP5.....
Plus, it could be a bitch to get hold of 5.7 ammo if you're not part of a police or military organization, so for a merc, this could be a real pain in the...... And there is also a greatre variety of 9mm ammo. And it's probably a LOT cheaper than the 5.7mm.......
I say no. We allready have body armour. People can allready survive three shots in the chest and back from an M16. And twice that many from an MP5. If we add in armour its gonna turn this into quake, or a sniper fest because the sniper rifles will be the only weapons able to kill someone with a reasonable amount of shots.
Harpoon: A bullet in the chest is not a sure kill. We plan to implement 'vital organ' hitzones that make that so.
When that happens, body armor will become desireable.
When that happens, body armor will become desireable.
Luminuis
Herald of the Newest Dawn
A cow can kill, does it have a place in infiltration? What would the bulk of a cow be? a dead cow would have more bulk then a live one right? as the live one can move about...I wanna see a cow in INF.
and oh lord the sights on cows STINK! (literally)
and oh lord the sights on cows STINK! (literally)
On the whole I agree with you regarding multiple hits and have made postings to the older message board to that effect as well. Some people have tried arguing that you can be wounded in the body with an M16/MP-5/PSG1 bullet and still keep fighting (the old 'if you hit me in the big toe with a 0.50 BMG shot, then I can still fight' argument). Well, I agree; you can if you are well motivated enough and the bullet doesn't hit anything that would immediately incapacitate you. The problem is that you can't be killed with one shot to the body as far as INF goes at the moment. Since hit location is limited to a Head and a Body cylindrical model, there is no central nervous system (CNS) in the Body: no major arteries, no liver, no heart, no lungs and no bones, then the opportunities for providing a one-shot disable/kill are certainly limited (read: none). A penetrating hit to the head or CNS should normally guarantee immediate disablement (a kill in INF game terms).
My guess as to why there isn't the chance of a one shot kill goes to the INF team's ideas on gameplay and realism. I also think they would be philosophically against a random allocation of damage to the player because that would involve generation of a random number to determine effects.
I think for the moment that you need to assume that the CNS/heart area has been moved up to the Head region and aim for this location to create one-shot kills. If and when body armour is implemented I will be disappointed if I find if you can no longer achieve one shot kills. With almost no exception, all of the firearms modelled in INF should have one shot kills of a target hit frontally in the lower forehead (where a helmet would not protect).
If body armour is implemented, then this should be done at the same time as the damage system is revised. Without being able to 'kill' players/bots with numerous hits to the Body, then maybe they need to have a chance to incapacitate the target with each hit. Regardless of how well armoured you are with a body armour, there is still a huge vulnerable area in a human body that, if hit will cause immediate incapacitation (instead of death). In game terms that is a kill, unless you have a mechanism to allow them to fight on after this incapacitating hit is 'repaired'.
Bill Lee
Shakken,
I have no problem with that - it's the flip side that is the issue:
"A single bullet in the chest is definitely not a kill" (excluding a Robar shot). You just can't kill someone with a single shot to the chest with the current model, regardless of placement (since there is no 'placement'). Since a wounded player is just as deadly as an unwounded player, then it is no wonder that people are using the Robar 'to be sure'. I know that is one of my main reasons for choosing the Robar above the PSG-1.
Bill Lee
billlee: YET dude. Things will be much more balanced when we get around to implementing our full damage and body armor model.