DM-TCMP-Taboo alpha/beta

TDM map with a specific concept (see the end of the post). "Secret underground castle" theme (Arborea stuff mostly).

Version: alpha5
Download: http://members.clanci.net/virgo47/tmp/DM-TCMP-Taboo-a5.zip
Testing: layout and pick-ups, flow, gameplay
Ignore: texturing; decos (missing ;-))
Bot-pathing: I think, they can kick your ass if you're not T2A or better ;-)
Custom smeshes: Yes - more will come.

I did not update pictures, because there were not SO massive changes.

Images (from alpha 4):
[screenshot]http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4836/tabooa419lk.jpg[/screenshot]
Minigun central room and a50.

[screenshot]http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/333/tabooa424jx.jpg[/screenshot]
A100 area.

[screenshot]http://img283.imageshack.us/img283/3296/tabooa439pn.jpg[/screenshot]
Shock Room (Hospital down the stairs).

[screenshot]http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/8278/tabooa443qa.jpg[/screenshot]
Drop-down area with flak.

[screenshot]http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/7871/tabooa459bu.jpg[/screenshot]
Double damage room.

Concept:
This one is no attempt for PRO/competitive map. It should be solid fun map without fatal exploit with solid item-placement, flow, etc. Layout is made in a little bit oldish style, but I think there is just enough connectivity. Of course, it is up to you to bring some new ideas here!

Well... the concept. Two teams, one holding a50 and another one holding a100 - both shiels are on the upper levels. There are no power weapons too close to shields, but there are some around. There should be a battle about DD and then both teams in a bad shape are heading to the health room - DD/health rooms are both on lower levels on the opposite sides and perpendiculary to the a50-a100 axis. There are generally two DD->health ways on the lower level, both leading thru central room with mini (first picture). Third way is from upper level. And that it is...

Try it, bring some concrete feedback. ;-) Thank you in advance.

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Yeah, you're better player than me for sure. ;-) I'm playing only with godlike because I want to spect them sometimes (I just don't trust in inhuman's "intelligence"), but even less number won (because I'm stupid and I'm meeting them in tight places with flak... in their hands ;-)).

Map really need some item replacement, mainly because I started with a little bit twisted idea. ;-) That's why I didn't dare to call it beta. ;-) As far as I know you I can expect straight points from you and not just "oh, looks nice, D/Ling!".

EDIT:
I can see your points... I will group vials in other way. So far I played it only from editor and when I imagine it without adren (although TDM is with it), many pick-ups are scattered strangely, I have to admit. ;-) I'd like to have the idea of "hospital" are there unless:
- it can't be balanced with regroupd vials (some later release);
- it will ruin the flow because all you will need is just a100+hospital - this depands on a the effect of DD brought up to the area by the enemy... really don't know

I don't understand DD problem, but strange thing is, that I have a feeling that one of my testers wants to question its position too (but he addressed layout so far, and now is out of reach, so I just quiver ;-) with impatience). I'm not too experienced player and even less experienced mapper, so I always need advice. ;-)

PS: We'll manage money later.

Uff, that picture got me! ;-))) I will try to test it with inhumans, because you exactly expressed what I hate on godlikes. I hope, there is no big difference in general navigation or their abilities.

I'm sure, that you know, that no map is just start and play (OK, Ironic is simple, but it is much smaller ;-)). Hopefully Talewavers cut down some of my corridors and I cut other ones and now the navigation thru the map is much more straight then in the first alpha. I'm curious what do you think of this version:

a4x - link invalided already (EDIT)

Sorry for abnormal release rate, I just want to know, if the direction is right. ;-) It is about pickup tweaking only.

OK, I moved that health pack a little - you'll see, but I can take it back and put away those bars - np with that...

But what do you do to those pathetic creatures... I watched game with skilled for a long minutes and... they don't want to meet in the lift - how did you manage that? I'll look at that stick-place. Sometimes that collisions going into brushes suck... sometimes it can be my fault. ;-)

EDIT: I tried it myself, but simply I can't imitate that stuck-beastch.

Ah, you're alive... I was pretty bored without you yesterday. ;-) Whatever... quiz question:

That bars, should I still remove them? Where would you like to have that health pack near a50?

I think that next version (maybe beta) will be a little bit slower, because I hit my modelling abilities and I'm stuck with some things. Or lazy, really don't know. So I'm in phase of watching 3dbuzz videos for Maya right now. ;-)

1st shot:
- I will make lift-corridor shorter and that part of gallery bit narower.
- I will move health pack.
- I will make columns thinner but only to about 75 %. Modelling and Unreal... well, I think that whatever is smaller than pawn is too small to even mention it from pawn's view. ;-)
- I don't think that lift jump is so hard, but I can make the window wider from the lift side. Still I want window, height is fine, I may make lift faster (not noticably, but you will feel it in LJ). It will be easier to get to that window, yet there is no real problem to jump thru it from the shock room.
- No planks there, sorry ;-) WDJ there - even properly timed DJ works, but I prefer WDJ from column

2nd shot:
- no lower parts, no major changes (because window will stay)
- smaller pillars indeed (I thank myself that I have no struts here, I have a lot of work in that central area after the columns getting thinner ;-))
- I knew it! I knew you will notice... that player start sucks, I noticed, it is gone forever

3rd shot:
- I don't want to make slopes on that flak plane, but I may add rampish/stairs transition to that drop-down plane. After joining those two corridors I pretty liked this part, but I can listen to more experienced voices. ;-)
- Bars, of course... much better with small path cycle. I like that.

4th shot:
- I pretty copied the lift from that near a50, but... I can move it and make the lift corridor shorter.
- I will not curve nearby wall, because there is a pillar in the row, ceiling curved out accordingly, etc etc.
- I may do something with the wall near health pack (against the lift), but I'm not sure what. I kinda like the separation from that corridor next to flak, but I may rethink it (you know me - I'm kinda slow thinker). I'm considering of making the arch there with thin column (like the others near flak).
- I know that it is completly unnecessary, but I like LJ+WDJ from the wall above health pack with landing on wooden horizontal beam around the in-wall-column on the left. Although after few games with much better players I doubt what is and what is not unnecessary and what is usable. Whatever, I hope that lift will be used. ;-)

OK, I think you scored pretty much again. ;-) Thank you Taleweaver!

Next thing... I started to have a weaker feeling about DD room because there is nothing important for more than 60 seconds. What do you think? Maybe it is not a crucial problem as long as the battles of DD balances it out. And of course, there were two sceptic voices about DD in that ... what was the word T2A used... yeah - trench.

If you're talking about that few bars from T2A's picture, there is no need for that now. If you mean everywhere, then sorry. I have a reason for them and I don't want overconnected level. Of course it is kinda inconvience to have a barier yet be able to shoot through it, but this map is also about this.

That reminds me that a50 jumplift... you can doublejump from lift even to the wooden strut that holds bars dividing a50 from minigun room.

I'll put them away, not a big deal (I'm completly overvoted ;-P)

Now the shields... well, they are not completly on the other sides (e.g. diagonally), but still they are kinda against each other. Both sites should have kinda equal chances to attack DD and that is why it is like it is. It is not SO close anyway.

This is not duel (a50 vs. a100), there are 3 power ups and dd/a100 are main one, a50 little bit behind. They are configured in some triangle (*cough*) and there is also that Hospital idea as an counterbalance for DD.

Is that feeling from actual game or from analysis? (I like analysis, their results are sometimes not so crucial in-game thou.)