BDBMapvote 304 up for testing

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Sexmachine

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I have been constantly whipping poor BDB (creator of the world famous BDBMapvote) over the last 3 month to fix the so called 'elimination mode' (Maps are removed from the list until there are only X number of maps left and thus all maps become votable again) as I think that's a pretty cool mode to avoid playing the same maps over and over again.

As BDB is a bit short in time atm, he has emailed me a new but yet not official version of mapvote (version 304) and asked for my (our) help in testing. I have added this version to our server (edit: download is redirected now and it's only a very small file, so grab it from the server) and configured the 'elimination mode' to reload the maplist when 69 (from out of 74) maps remain ... so right now the list gets refreshed very quickly, but that's ok for testing. Please have an eye on this to see if it works as expected and post possible problems (related to mapvote) in this thread ... thanks.
 
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Trueblood

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I think the map vote is alright appart from the 'used' maps stay blocked for days! The server (to my mind) only gets used around lockdown time and i think we end up playing around 10-12 maps.
This is alright i suppose but for example, JB-Trainyard seems to do one of the favorates :D, the second someone sees it..it gets played, but then we dont see it for days! could we have the map refresh option lower? 69 seems too much.
Just a quick idea...next time you have the chance ask DBD if its possible to 'Shuffle' the used maps with the played maps. after a map gets used, it gets filed down the bottom with the rest of the played maps, leaving the playable at the top. :rolleyes:
 

TheSpoonDog

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but then we dont see it for days! could we have the map refresh option lower? 69 seems too much.
By 69, he means after five maps have been played, they all become available again (with a starting map count of 74). It's refreshing quickly just for testing purposes. Just that it sounds like you think the maps will only become available after 69 maps have been played, so clearing that up ;)
 

Mychaeel

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I'd say for actual playing (not testings) something like "refresh after 15 maps" would be suitable (or maybe 20; something in the order of that).

That'd still mean that 59 maps have a chance never to be played (which would be a pity), but it might be a reasonable compromise.
 

Sexmachine

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Spoon is right - at the moment the list gets refreshed after the 5th voting process (for testing reasons) but I do seriously think about a very "late" refresh in the future (a refresh when there are just 5 or 10 or maybe 15 maps left). Especially those who play a lot on the server should benefit from that, as it avoids going through the same maps over and over again (JB-Complex anyone?) ... keep in mind that the way it works is different form the 'old' way - depending on the time you join there might be a lot of maps blocked, but then again it may happen that you are able to vote for almost any map (shortly after a 'reset' has happened). I'd say that a value of 15 played maps (like Mych suggested) is not practical (the 15 most common maps get voted and then cycled through again and again and again).

Think about the upcoming way of mapvoting along the lines of a fixed mapcycle with a little bit of user interaction.
 

CoolDude

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Sexmachine said:
I do seriously think about a very "late" refresh in the future (a refresh when there are just 5 or 10 or maybe 15 maps left).
That would mean that if there are 75 maps, playing off 15 maps a day (which I think is high), and a refresh with only 10 maps left, it will take 5 to 6 days before my favorite map is playable again ... :confused:
Knowing my luck, it probably will be played off by somebody else, which means I have to wait another 5 days.

For some maps I think that's OK (Face-III anyone ??? ;) ), but for others (especially the new maps) I think it's a pitty.

I know some maps are more popular than others.
If people like to play them, why take out the fun and force them to play other ones?
It's like forcing me to watch Out of Africa instead of Indiana Jones.

At least, that's my opinion (which normally nobody listens to).
:cool:
 

Sexmachine

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I have done some more testing and it looks like BDB did a great job. Right now Mapvote makes use of the 'elimination mode' and the maplist is set to refresh when just 14 maps remain. Simplified, the refresh happens after 15 hours of gameplay. Atm. the server is used between 3 and 5 hours a day leading to a refresh every 4 days. That may sound bad on the one hand but as I think there are at least 60 maps worth playing amongst those on the server this should bring some more diversion into the mapcycle on the other hand.

I might be wrong here and it may suck badly, but that remains to be seen (and I especially like to get some feedback from the hardcore JB players like Trueblood, Bathory, Borenson, CoolDude, Boost and so on).
 

Birelli

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Oct 14, 2001
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I know I don't get on as much as many, but my favorite maps were almost never up for play in the system that was in before this one. This doesn't sound like it will change. I know that sometimes it can be tiring to play the same maps over and over again, but remember that if it takes 15 hours or so that means that for those of us who only make an hour or two a week, we only have like a 1/10 chance of playing any one map, which means it could take months before I play any one map with how much I play. This seems like denying people what they want to do for some sort of higher morals about playing, which IMO is not needed nor especially appreciated :(.

I suggest not making the refresh limit any higher than 20, as this would still keep the maps from getting too stale, but also not take away the entire point of having a map voting system.

In the long term, if people really really get tired of some map, they won't vote for it. If some people want to play 15 hours a week or some such, then IMHO they can just live with the fact that they're going to have to play some maps several times a week.
 
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Boost

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Apr 22, 2003
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I have to agree with CoolDude. We play a lot but never the same map twice a night because that is no fun. :rolleyes:
I would say that between 10 and 20 would be good. That means that you will be able to play your favorite map once a week if you play 3 to 4 days in a week. ;)
The maps that get played also depends on the amount of players that play. If there are 4 to 6 players you mostly vote for the small maps and if there are more players you play the big maps which is then more enjoyable.
:boom: :flak:
 

Sexmachine

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I feel like I need to explain my intentions behind all this a little more (and yes I know we all are a bit biased when it comes to talk about mapvote).

I like to start by saying that I am no friend of mapvote at all and that I usually like servers that have a 'fixed' mapcycle a lot more. The reason for this is simple, if you have a fixed mapcycle all maps get played and thus regular players don't get sick of a specific map that easy, as these maps don't get played more often as every other map. Of course it's possible (if you are a pretty unlucky guy like CoolDude claims to be) that you always join the server at the same point of the mapcycle and as a result you are forced to play the same maps again and again, but this risk is getting smaller and smaller the more maps are in the cycle. The one thing that is bad about a fixed mapcycle is the fact that the upcoming maps not always fit the number of players playing (possibly resulting in a 16 player Basmma massacre or a 3 player Nightmoves hide-and-seek). This is the point where MapVote really scores imo.

In the beginning I had MapVote set to disable the last 15 maps voted (as 15 is a number that gets close to the amount of maps played on one evening). I went to the server and enjoyed playing the 15 most popular maps on the first day, but as I've joined the server the next day I had to find out that (even though there were different people playing) we cycled through almost the same maps. Needless to say what happened the next days, so I decided to raise the value of blocked maps to 40 (having 74 maps in total on the server). The positive effect of this was that I finally had a chance to play some different maps (yeehaw!) but as a negative side effect I somehow always joined the server when 3 of my personal favourites where blocked (bad luck) as they seem to get voted as soon as they become available again.

So here is the point where I think the 'elimination mode' is superior to the other, as maps get eliminated 'til e.g. 15 maps remain and after that the complete list becomes votable again (that's all 74 maps) ... thus it's way easier to figure when a map you're looking for becomes votable again (in the standard mode you never know when a map drops out of the blocked map list unless you check the "last maps played" info tab of mapvote).

Assuming that the 74 maps on the server are a good collection of maps (else I need to think of changing the available maps in general) plus the fact that the list gets refreshed when just 15 maps remain should give all players the chance to vote for at least one map they like to play (try to nominate your personal 15 most unwanted maps and I guess you'll fail in doing so - otherwise there might be something wrong with you playing Jailbreak ... lol).

It is true that elimination mode gives regular players a higher chance to see and play there personal favourites more often (compared to one-timers and ever-now-and-then players *doh*) but I think that's somehow desireable.

Nothing is perfect and especially MapVote isn't, as there are basically just two ways to go with it. The first one (having only a few maps blocked) is fine for those who join the server erver now and then, but can easily become a reason for 'hardcore' players to avoid playing on the server or start hating some of the best JB maps because of the phenomenon called 'overplaying'. The second one (elimination) leads to a much more diverse mapcycle even though it looks a bit like it's taking away the 'free choice' of players at some point.

Again, try to see the way MapVote is set up now more like a 'fixed' mapcycle but with the added value of being able to choose maps that fit the actual number of players playing at any given time. In the end it's always based on/affected by the time you join the server and how much time you are willing to spend there. You love to play JB-TrainYard? Hold on, as it'll return for sure in just about 15 hours! ;)
 

CoolDude

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I'm glad the MapVote is on the SM/Mothership server.
Most other JB-servers don't have it.
I think any form of MapVote is better then no MapVote at all.

Sexmachine said:
it can easily become a reason for 'hardcore' players to avoid playing on the server or start hating some of the best JB maps because of the phenomenon called 'overplaying'
I must admit that was one of the reasons I stopped playing for a short period.
However, most of the time it's the regular players who vote for the same maps over and over again. This regular player has his own opinion on each and every map. The "now-and-then" players normally don't mind which map is playing. I think there was nothing wrong with the mapvotes the last couple of weeks.

Let's just wait and see how this new mapvote goes.
Even the most crappy JailBreak map is fun to play, as long as the company is good.
:cool:
 

Sexmachine

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Just some more statistical stuff: I have installed MapVote304 on monday morning at around 2 o'clock and as I have joined our server just a second ago (wednesday morn 2 o'clock) I was amazed to find the maplist cleared (reset) just a few games ago ... looks like 15 games a day is just plain theory. :D
 

TheSpoonDog

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Was playing a few games last night/morning, and there seems to be some bug, or perhaps a clash with UTPure or something...

First of all, all messages are being displayed twice. Second, when we were voting, one person voted for JB-Freya][-III, and one person voted for JB-DarkAges. Mapvote said:


  • JB-Freya][-III has won.
    JB-DarkAges has won.

JB-Freya][-III was the map that was loaded, but then at the end of that map, both JB-Freya][-III and JB-DarkAges were disabled from voting.
 

Sexmachine

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Thanks for telling Spoon. This time it wasn't UTPure's fault as the problem was somehow caused by a mutator/add-on (called 'MutatorLauncher' that enables people to launch mutators via the INI file instead of using the commandline) Wormbo whipped together upon my request. Switching back to the commandline has eliminated the 'message gets displayed twice' effect (and I assume that the other issue is gone aswell) - sounds like MapVote was somehow activated twice ... dunno.
 

CoolDude

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MapVote with elimination mode is running for about 3 weeks now.
I must admit that at the start I was a bit afraid I wouldn't like it, but now I must admit I was completely wrong.

At the moment, how many maps are still available at the end, just before all are available again?
Even if in the end I had to choose between 5 maps there is always one I like to play more then the others.

Even the most crappy JailBreak map is fun to play, as long as the company is good.
Whoever came up with that one?
:cool: