Damage system

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OICW

Reason & Logic > Religion
I know I already posted this, but since everyone was having fun bashing the n00b (not that I care about that, except people seemed to have missed the point I was trying to make), I decided to post this as a new thread.

* There is a base damage system for each of the rounds based on their wound profiles in RL, and other factors i.e the M855 5.56mm rounds are far more destructive to tissue than the 7.62X51 round when travelling at 2700fps or higher, between 2500-2700fps slightly more and less when below 2500fps.

Add to that proper hit locations (chest, stomach, arms etc) which increase, or in some situations decrease the damage by a random number of points. This would require per-poly hit detection which I think UT2003 has.

Finally, once the bullet hits, there is a random choice of what happens next, which varies in severity depending on the bullet's total damage. The choices would be something like:

(Assuming chest shot)

* Your vision goes red temporarily and your stamina, movement speed and ability to aim accurately become much slower/poorer. Your vision and body sway somewhat and your arms wobble. You cough or gasp loudly after being shot. (again random) Your vision clears but then after about 15-20 seconds, it starts fading to black and as that happens you fall over and die. Random factors would be the length of time before you fall over, the speed of fading to black and the degree of movement/weapon punishment. I can't stress that last part enough, otherwise people would realise what's happening and pull a Rambo before dying.

* Essentially same as above, except that you may drop your weapon (still can draw your secondary).

* Your screen shakes a bit and you fall over (again random time before you fall), however you can still move prone (or slowly roll over to prone if you fall on your back). Your vision keeps redding out but you can still aim and move prone, albeit with some difficulty. This time you last for a little longer before dying (fade to black), but (if bandages ever get added in), if you use bandages, you get a temporary reprieve from death for say a minute, depending on the random factor (this would give a teammate enough time to carry you to a "safe" spot in the map, and you survive). Of course, if you were really lucky, you could be carried to a safe spot by a teammate with the first scenario).

* Same as above except that you stagger instead of falling down, and maybe you can only crouch and move.

* Your screen shakes but you can keep on moving (i.e the bullet didn't hit any vital organs or blood vessels) and shooting with some minor penalties (otherwise people would be shrugging off hits), and your speed and stamina are reduced. Maybe your screen flashes red for a second then goes back to normal. You'll be bleeding, and although it's not life-threatening, it'd still be a good idea to bandage to help reduce that blood trail you're leaving behind.

Some things mentioned aren't realistic, but this is for gameplay's sake. I know that this system sounds complicated and that I went overboard with random factors, but that's how RL is like. The only problem I see with this is people going gung-ho due to too minor penalties, plus the random stuff could really drain your CPU and framrate.

Feedback?
 

kungpaosamuraiii

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Mar 31, 2002
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Well, I didn't read the WHOLE thing but I personally think it looks good so far.

I've never been shot before so I can't tell really well. From an armchair warrior's perspective, it looks good to me!
 

melagne

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Dec 6, 2002
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The damage systems in FPS's have always been a little bit strange to me. I think that the whole idea of having health represented by just one number is pretty dumb, especially if you can be shot 9 times for no actual effect and then suddenly fall dead on the 10th. I think that every time a player is shot, the shot should have some type of effect, depending on what part of the body has been wounded etc, and the cumulative effect of these wounds should cause death.... not just death from when (health==0).

I sort of disagree with the 'random damage' idea as I think players should be rewarded for higher accurracy while shooting by having more severe damage effects happening to the target, although some randomness is a must as it would be a bit of a pain to try and simulate the whole human anatomy.
 

Bloodhawk

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Dec 21, 2002
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<--- Agrees with Melagne,
These effects can only be simulated in a very general way. A few random effects may be good though.

I like where you were going with the 'being carried to the safe spot' part.
I had a similar thread on the subject before the forums crashed.
 

ninjin

The Franco-Japanese Carrot
Feb 24, 2001
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well, interesting to some extent but i wouldn't advise for anything like immobilized legs for example as the whole game would be actually 'crawling' with players and on a level like ExtremePredjudice it would be ugly....
 

Freon

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Jan 27, 2002
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something i'd like is the damage system used in rainbow six games. 1 bullet from any weapon is enough most of the time. unless your're wearing a armor vest which stops pistol round (i remember once taking a pistol with JHP rounds and firing at someone with armor, i emptied a whole magazine and he did'nt feel anything :p). if you're hit and survives you can't run anymore and aim really poorly. when down you're either incapacited or dead. it's only useful for single player game or if there are loss penalities.
it's really basic but it plays well IMHO. easy kill, easy death, no bandage, big random factor, lots of fun :D
i remember good old chavez taking 13 bullets from a smg and surviving!!
 

Spier

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Freon said:
something i'd like is the damage system used in rainbow six games. 1 bullet from any weapon is enough most of the time. unless your're wearing a armor vest which stops pistol round (i remember once taking a pistol with JHP rounds and firing at someone with armor, i emptied a whole magazine and he did'nt feel anything :p). if you're hit and survives you can't run anymore and aim really poorly. when down you're either incapacited or dead. it's only useful for single player game or if there are loss penalities.
it's really basic but it plays well IMHO. easy kill, easy death, no bandage, big random factor, lots of fun :D
i remember good old chavez taking 13 bullets from a smg and surviving!!
Agreed, the damage system is one of the things they got right, one of the few I might add.. If you get shot in RS, then you have a pretty slim chance of effectively returning fire, which is how it should be.
 

Specter

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Jul 17, 2002
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Rainbow Six damage

Rogue Spear had the best damage system of all the Rainbow Six series of games. It was an improvement over the original Rainbow Six and it is still better than Rainbow Six: Raven Shield, which seems to use hitpoints. In the original Rainbow Six and in Rogue Spear the games used a file called gfcm.txt (the GunFire Combat Model chart).

In Rainbow Six the file contained the name of the ammo, and then a chart of what would happen if the characters were shot in each body part (head, chest, abdomen, legs, and arms) and with each armor (light, standard, and heavy). For example:

// Gunfire combat model chart

// Format
// <ammo type> <body part> <armor type> <health effect> <range 0 - 100 >

// 9mm ammo
9mm head "light armor"
"no effect" 1 2
stunned 3 5
dazed 0 0
wounded 6 20
incapacitated 21 60
dead 61 100​
"standard armor"​
"no effect" 1 5
stunned 6 25
//etc.

I think that it created some kind of random value each time someone was hit and in the 9mm example if they were shot in the head wearing light armor and the value was between 1-2 then there would be no effect, 3-5 they would be stunned, and so on...

Rogue Spear was similar, but the chart with the effects were in two seperate charts (the Stun Chart and Kill Chart) from the ammo stats. The effects were based on the ammunition's energy on impact, which was what the first section of the gfcm file contained. Rather then add another lengthly example I'll just attach the gfcm.txt for people to look at for themselves.
 

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  • gfcm.txt
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it's great, i made several such suggestion over the years, but never so worked out as yours...

bandages wuld be great, try the third reich like freon said, you camn bandage yourself wich slows dwn blood loss...

dying by blood loss would be nice feature to, even if shot in the leg you can bleed heavily and die fom blood loss...

carrying a woonded teammate is something i never thought about, it would be great!

the degree of movement/weapon punishment. I can't stress that last part enough, otherwise people would realise what's happening and pull a Rambo before dying.

so? i would panic if i knew i was **** bad and i'd panic and shoot eerything that moves...

it's as realistic as it'll get, a 100% realistic game would be sooooo boring....
 

melagne

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Dec 6, 2002
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I agree with OICW that there needs to be a degree of fairly random hard-to-control factors applied to movement and aiming/weapon control when a player is close to death.

I disagree with Beretta_Abuser about panicking and shooting everything that moves (or doesn't move, as the case may be) when I was about to die.... I play inf without any hud as i find that the amount of health that i have is fairly redundant, as long as it's still above zero. To prevent me from 'pulling a rambo' if i can see that i am going to die soon, severe movement and weapon control constraints would have to be implimented otherwise i'm just going to throw all my 'nades everywhere and then charge round the corner with my hipped famas blazing....

I think that one-shot takedowns are also a good thing.

edit - punctuation is sometimes useful
 
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Grim_Reaper ~UFS~

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Aug 1, 2002
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TTR is one of the games that uses the culmulative damage system. Your aiming drops if you have been hit in the arm, your speed may be reduced to walking or even proning if you are hit severely, etc. However, if the INF team were to do this I really hope they don't add all that proning crap that's in TTR right now. Sure it's realistic, but it looks so damn goofy when someone gets shot in the leg, and the prone animation plays.
 

(SDS)benmcl

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RA286 has a nice system. Blacking out, bleeding, stamina loss, first aid, gibs, lots of gibs.

punctuation is sometimes useful, commas, lots and lots of commas.
 
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that TTR's phrone animation look goofy is the animation's fault...

everyone can choose for himself if he's either going t "pull a rambo" or remain calm, when in TTR im shot in the legs, can only crawl and ill be dead in 30 secs im throwing nades like Liprophet(or worse), what would you do when you know the enemy's somewhere in that direction? u might get 1 or 2....
 

keihaswarrior

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TTR's system sucks because when you are shot in the legs you can't do anything. Meanwhile everyone else is dieing and respawning. It makes more sense to kill yourself so you'll respawn rather than trying to make due with your injures. Respawns should respawn wounded also if they want to be respawned. Otherwise they can deal with their injuries and hope that one of their teammates comes and hauls them back to the spawn location to retrieve their reinforcement point.
 

w00p

Windows at its best
cyanide pill. Though it counts as a TK, you can commit suicide using the cyanide pill. You could also simply not bandage...

ANYWAY, enough about TTR, back to INF.
Something I didn't see mentioned anywhere is losing balance.
Not really as in falling over, but more like being dizzy.
you walk 2 steps left, 3 steps right, and sort of walk around for a few secs without pressing any button.
That way some stuff like falling of a ledge after shot could be done realisticly.
or falling in water and drouning because you are losing too much blood.
Oooh, and when you're in a waterzone while bleeding, make blood come out of you and kind of blend with the water...
 
one remark about TTR:
just losing the respawning would solve the problem also, what the hell is respawning doing in a realistic game anyway?
i see it as a challange to get kills while crippeled, killing urself would be lame and weak...
well, that were 2 remarks actually.....doesnt matter...

im stalling waiting for some inf team member to say yes or no to all of this......(plz let it be yes)
 

Black_King

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If you want a fully realistic damage method, how about the following? Split the body into sections (heart, lungs, throat, head, stomach, arms, legs, groin). Then create pain and bleeding guages. if the pain guage is completely full, the person dies of shock. The higher the bleeding guage, the faster health goes down. And if the bleeding guage is full, the player is dead from blood loss. Pain increases with every shot that causes bleeding, and stays at that level.
Head: instant kill
Throat: collapses to the ground with a gurgling sound, as opposed to the cry of pain generated by the other kill shots. Raises bleeding to max.
Heart: kill shot, (perhaps the first one discribed out of the chest shots in the first post)
Lungs: accuracy goes way down (punctured lung makes aiming difficult...), movement no longer possible, 3-6 minutes before death (drowning on own blood)
Stomach: causes bleeding, reduces health
Legs: causes bleeding, and forces limping. If both legs are hit, forced prone.
Arms: causes bleeding. 1 arm means you can no longer use two handed weapons, 2 arms means unable to fight.
Groin: increase pain to maximum. >:)

Drowning reduces stamina first, as the player holds his/her breath, then the player dies (water floods the lungs, causing them to explode. At this point, the player is considered dead, rather than waiting 3-6 minutes immobile underwater...)

Damage to arms, legs and stomach healable with bandages, if you can get there... (not quite as realistic, but it prevents players who can't shoot/walk from getting bored...), and pain can be reduced using a painkiller of some description. These can be used on team-mates as well as yourself. Primary on team-mates, and secondary on self, perhaps. Health, on the other hand, cannot be increased.

That's almost entirely realistic, but not so bad as to reduce gameplay (not by too much, anyway). It would probably take some time to impliment though...

Edit: I forgot to mention, though this is probably self explanatory: bleeding, pain, and health loss from a wound depend on muzzle velocity, calibre, and range. And type of weapon. An explosion kills instantly, and a knife counts as 19x9mm at point blank range with average muzzle velocity for the purposes of damage. It also goes straight through body armour.

In the case of body armour, light will work against pistol/smg rounds. Medium will work on all but explosions, and heavy will reduce damage from explosions to merely disabling both legs, and rasing pain to almost maximum. And, of course, knives will go through all kinds of body armour. When a bullet is stopped by body armour, the pain will go up by half as much as normal (half again by armour of one class heavier, and half again from heavier still.) For example: bullet from pistol/smg hits light armor: no bleeding, half pain. Same bullet hits medium: quarter pain. Same bullet against heavy: an eighth of the pain (the heavier armour protects more).

Naturally, the heavier the armour, the more bulk it counts as, reducing maximum stamina.
 
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