UT 2004? A new take by RO

RO needs reinforcemets, it's not a SpecOps type game, but a battlefield. Battlefield type games require a larger ammount of palyers + respawns anyway.

But hey, a WW2 SpecOps type game with a specialized objective and no respawns on only the one side could be a nice thing. Don't know of what SpecOps thingies the germans and russians had. I know only about the US rangers and british SAS.


RO is not so bad. But aiming weapons take so much effort, I hate stuff like this.

Turin_Turambar said:

My main gripe with RO is not the realism, though it can be improved; the big flaw in RO its the main and single gamemode . Their devs could learn from DTAS, imo. No reinforcements, dynamic objetive, tight teamplay.

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If i could qoute this 10 times and carboncopy it to ramm jaeger i would.

I pleaded for / suggested a DTAS gametype for RO in the official RO forum, in BUF, in GD's and in IMT forum. Damn if i could code i'd do it myself.

Like Turin, my main gripe is not RO itself, but the gametype. One way caps, always defending in certain maps, repetetive gameplay. Some of RO's maps deserve better than that.

DTAS and no class limit, i'd like to see it done for RO. It's going retail anyway so it'll be around long enough to try. I can imagine much of the existing DTAS code can be ported without too much hassle. Maybe stuff like a compass would need more effort.

I personally played too many WWII Games before...

zeep said:

If i could qoute this 10 times and carboncopy it to ramm jaeger i would.

I pleaded for / suggested a DTAS gametype for RO in the official RO forum, in BUF, in GD's and in IMT forum. Damn if i could code i'd do it myself.

Like Turin, my main gripe is not RO itself, but the gametype. One way caps, always defending in certain maps, repetetive gameplay. Some of RO's maps deserve better than that.

DTAS and no class limit, i'd like to see it done for RO. It's going retail anyway so it'll be around long enough to try. I can imagine much of the existing DTAS code can be ported without too much hassle. Maybe stuff like a compass would need more effort.

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You need a class limit. Otherwise you'd have every German soldier with an MG34/MG42, or every Russian soldier with an SVT-40. And having every soldier be able to choose any weapon is silly. You don't *chose* your weapons in the Soviet or German WWII army - the soldiers were given their weapons. And if you want another one, yank it off the corpse of a friend or foe like they did in real life.

I make maps for RO, and one of the biggest concerns I have is role/class selection and their weapons. You can theoretically give any soldier any weapon. But I try to keep to what makes sense. A squad would have mostly grunts with bolt-action rifles, with some automatics, an MG, and one or two officers (an actual commander and - on the Soviet side - a political officer). That's the way things were setup in that time.

As far as the reinforcements, the battles RO covers were massive engagements, yet the UT2004 engine is limited to 32 players. So in the ROLevelInfo actor, you specify how many "men" each unit has - 150, 250, etc. You could set 10,000 if you wanted to represent a full division... but then the battle would never end

Also, there is an RO mutator out there called "Teamswap" that swaps the sides, so it alternates each side's perspective.

Unfortunately, the DTAS-style gametype is not a possibility at the moment, because the spawn positioning/availability is driven by the Objectives and Objective Manager actors. And coding your own stuff is limited because the RO source code is obfuscated - you can't just export it from UnrealEd and look at the classes.

Thanks for reading my post. Please let me refine the DTAS gamemode for RO.
I will reply to some of your statements and below i'll explain the DTAS gamemode. Since you are a RO mapper, and therefor develop for RO, you're my first target to convert.

WickedPenguin said:

You need a class limit. Otherwise you'd have every German soldier with an MG34/MG42, or every Russian soldier with an SVT-40. And having every soldier be able to choose any weapon is silly. You don't *chose* your weapons in the Soviet or German WWII army - the soldiers were given their weapons. And if you want another one, yank it off the corpse of a friend or foe like they did in real life.

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You probably are historically correct. However that is not intention for the DTAS gamemode. It's just a gamemode, no need to be historically correct.
If you allow all classes, then players will eventually settle for the weapon they feel serves their purpose best in a particular map. Don't be influenced by RO's current gamemode when thinking about this!
Every player needs to be able to choose what weapon to use. All weapons have pro's / cons anyway so when you get past the few days when everybody chooses ex. sniper, players will choose loadout more usefull and diverse.

WickedPenguin said:

I make maps for RO, and one of the biggest concerns I have is role/class selection and their weapons. You can theoretically give any soldier any weapon. But I try to keep to what makes sense...That's the way things were setup in that time.

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Historically correct again i think
But we're after another gamemode. Also, players (who choose to play dtas ) will appreciate that they have absolute freedom of choosing weapons. Mainly primairy to begin with. Until a more reliable loadout system (if ever) is programmed i'd give a max of 2, maybe 3 grenades.

{quote=WickedPenguin]As far as the reinforcements..You could set 10,000 if you wanted to represent a full division... but then the battle would never end [/quote]We want our match to end when everybody is dead or the objective captured. No reinforcements.

WickedPenguin said:

Unfortunately, the DTAS-style gametype is not a possibility at the moment, because the spawn positioning/availability is driven by the Objectives and Objective Manager actors. And coding your own stuff is limited because the RO source code is obfuscated - you can't just export it from UnrealEd and look at the classes.

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I'm not a coder so i don't know if it's possible but from what i see this community do in uscript i believe DTAS is very possible for RO.

The only thing i need is a coder.

Dynamic Take And Secure. ( In case you don't know)

Two teams. One team attacks, the other team defends, swapped each round. Normally on a certain map there are about 6 to 10 rounds.

One player on the defending team spawns a flag about 10 seconds after the round starts. This is basically an invisible cylinder representing the objective zone which the attackers have to capture.

It takes (at least) two attackers to cap the flag. They have to be in range of the flag for an x amount of seconds. If there are more than 1 defenders in range they can't cap.

Logically if all defenders are dead, or if the flag is capped, the attackers win.
The defenders have to kill all attackers to win.
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That's it basically.


The Infiltration version has things like a compass that shows the flag and distance to it. Also when a teammember speaks his name marks a spot on the compass for a few seconds. We can use things like %C in our teamsay command that in game print compass heading. ( I'm moving %C. = I'm moving East ). Also it's possible to look at a player, and use his name in teamsay message. etc.. Goodies like that.

In RO a compass function for at least the flag position would be needed.

WickedPenguin said:

You need a class limit. Otherwise you'd have every German soldier with an MG34/MG42.

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Not true. I played in a lot of games where the MG slot was always free. Ppl doesn't like a lot to play the support role, instead they prefer the "lone guner" soldier with a rifle or mg (not everyone, but you know, in the public servers they are the most big %).

flamingknives said:

Actually, with RO as it stands, I was a far better shot with a kar98 or Mosin Nagant than either of the semi-automatics. Something to do with having to drop the aim and bring it back up for each shot.

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Does it still have that retarded aiming system where your arms start out perfect, then wobble all over after a few sec?

Because in that system, the way to play was to hip the rifle and reaim after every shot, thus keeping your arms from wobbling.

The wobble should be reversed. It starts out wobbling a lot, then gets very steady after a couple seconds. Then would represent real weapon handling A LOT better than the current -- instant perfect aim degrading into jello arms.

If I my make so bold as to beg the indulgence of the gods of the most holy and revered Inf Mod Team I have a couple of suggestions.

IMHO the skin on some of the weapons is rather light. The main problem for me is that this means the sights are gray rather than black. This tends to make it a little difficult to aim the weapon especially when the uniforms are grayish.