Why an expansion?

dub · Jan 5, 2009

sigh

Rankz said:
Destructible environments like bridges and towers controlled by physics

Not needed

Rankz said:
spider mines gun like in UT2K4

hell no!

Rankz said:
some more super weapons

hell no!

Rankz said:
bot voice commands, Legendary characters, an excellent UI and story-line mode should do the trick.

and this last stuff is totally stuff that's really a: not the reason people are not playing and b: waaay "unimportant" - there's like hundreds of other things that need fixing and sorting out before any minor content add-ons like this are needed.
Alone that extra characters are minor things which can easely be added by fans of the titles you want to pull from (and for people like me who don't hold UT in such high regard and don't really care, it's something that I really don't care about seeing in the game). You can get your nuclear johgurt guns and Unreal 0.056 nali war cow models for UT3 all over the net, without the involvement of Epic.
Also before they do anything for the single player, they need to sort out the core, which is the multiplayer.

Bersy · Jan 5, 2009

One clue that we have about the expansion is that it is going to be on Mac (according to Mark Rein). By proxy we might assume the Linux client release will also coincide with this.

Now, it still doesn't tell us whether it will be free or not.. but if it isn't, that's gonna be a lot more pissed off people who bought it in the first place because they were led to believe they would get it as part of their original purchase.

dub · Jan 5, 2009

Well if it's an add-on for UT3 and a 'paying expansion' it will fail. I can't see people paying for content for a game they don't play with an active community barely touching triple digits.

If Epic pull a 'UT 2003 -> UT 2004' type move, then obviously (IMO) they will charge for the content as it will more-or-less a new game.
That won't stop people being pissed off ('though nothing will) for having bought UT3 in the first place and having to buy the "real" version a year later like with 2004.

Lruce Bee · Jan 5, 2009

The expansion will almost certainly be a new stand-alone product.
I just can't see Epic releasing this as an add-on to UT3 with so many changes etc, it sounds like the final title Epic need to kick out the door for Midway Games before jumping to another publisher.
I think the after effects of the release of UT3 has hit Epic hard, not financially but almost certainly their reputation - you just can't put a price on that.

Lruce

Alhanalem · Jan 5, 2009

chances are they will pull the 2k3>2k4 move and they're just using expansion as a fancy buzzword.

Forgetful · Jan 5, 2009

I seem to remember Epic Games staff cow towing back in the days of Unreal 99 about how while some developers would charge players for extra content via expansions, Epic Games valued their community and released their Bonus Packs for free.

Personally I think it's pathetic and Epic Games (for me) is now just another EA/Ubisoft

It's too bad that the company couldn't keep their integrity.

Edit: Is it me or does Epic Games also seem to pick lousy business partners .. Atari , Midway. I wouldn't be surprised if the push to charge for the expansion came straight from Midway as they are an inch from death right now and they need any money they can get.

Benfica · Jan 5, 2009

Forgetful said:
I seem to remember Epic Games staff cow towing back in the days of Unreal 99 about how while some developers would charge players for extra content via expansions, Epic Games valued their community and released their Bonus Packs for free.

Personally I think it's pathetic and Epic Games (for me) is now just another EA/Ubisoft

It's too bad that the company couldn't keep their integrity.

Who said they will charge for the UT3 expansion?

Grobut · Jan 5, 2009

Benfica said:
Who said they will charge for the UT3 expansion?

Whilst it has not been officially stated (very little has), i think its safe to say that most people expect this, including myself, as it would most likely end Epic's contract with Midway, and besides, if its anywhere near as big as we hope, it seems likely that it would cost money.

UBerserker · Jan 5, 2009

If it's a stand-alone new title, it's going to cost money. And I don't mind paying again.
They never charged for any of their downloadable expansions.

StalwartUK · Jan 5, 2009

UBerserker said:
If it's a stand-alone new title, it's going to cost money. And I don't mind paying again.
They never charged for any of their downloadable expansions.

Does Gears of War count?

Yes, it'll probably end up costing money whatever form it ends up taking. Whether I'm willing to pay for it or not will probably depend on how well it's recieved both by general gamers as well as hardcore UT fans.

UBerserker · Jan 5, 2009

StalwartUK said:
Does Gears of War count?

Microsoft.

Forgetful · Jan 5, 2009

At this point I would think Epic is looking for the quickest way out of their contract with Midway since they owe them 2 more unreal titles.

Epic: Hey Midway take this...
Midway: What This?
Epic: The shaft.

I also prophetize that Microsoft will be publishing future Unreal titles if there are any after Midway.

UBerserker · Jan 6, 2009

Forgetful said:
I also prophetize that Microsoft will be publishing future Unreal titles if there are any after Midway.

I think not; long ago I heard Epic to not like the fact of their GOW map packs being charged by MS.

JaFO · Jan 6, 2009

UBerserker said:
I think not; long ago I heard Epic to not like the fact of their GOW map packs being charged by MS.

until they got the cheque in the mail ...

Giving stuff for 'free' may be good karma, but when the community responds by not giving the game(s) a fair review and there's a million consumers out there willing to pay inflated prices for a few maps then I know what my strategy will be ... (ie : let them pay for 'expansions' as were it fulpriced games)
// ---

I seriously doubt that Epic will do UT4 for one simple reason : lack of resources.
They have licensed their engine to almost every developer on the planet.
Supporting something like that costs a lot of resources.
Then there's GoW and GoW2 that need support and GoW 3 (a sure cashcow given the success of GoW-series) that is in development as well.
And there's the 'secret' project by 'People can fly' ...

How many resources do you think Epic has left when given that they're a small company and that next-gen content costs a lot of time to develop?

A few maps, models and perhaps a simple(!) gametype like the horde-mode from GoW2 is all I'd expect. And I'm sure it'll cost more than 40$ ...

sneh · Jan 6, 2009

Rankz said:
UT4...... It's a better move than to release a free huge upgrade, on a game not well received.

Yeah, that's my thinking. UT3 has a lot of bad ju-ju surrounding it, why try to expand on it.

I just really hope to see something fresh, new general theme etc..
I never quite liked the style of UT3 in terms of visuals personally, so if i.e. they literally use the same assets from UT3 I'm gonna throw up all over my keyboard

(oh, and maybe UT4 would be UT2009 anyway, so they can save that for UE4? Speculation on top of speculation...)

Mabz · Jan 6, 2009

dub said:
Not needed

hell no!

hell no!

and this last stuff is totally stuff that's really a: not the reason people are not playing and b: waaay "unimportant" - there's like hundreds of other things that need fixing and sorting out before any minor content add-ons like this are needed.
...
Also before they do anything for the single player, they need to sort out the core, which is the multiplayer.

I'm supporting the release of a brand new UT game. Not a huge content release for UT3 that would fix multi-player support and other items you mention 'waaay "unimportant"'. UT2K4 bot commands were not waay important but it placed the game at much higher standing than other games in its genre. The pre-videos in assault were also not waay important but it showed that Epic really took time to try and give us a thorough game.

The stuff that I mentioned is possible if Epic goes back to the drawing board and plan more realistically than they did. I'd gladly wait and support another UT title knowing the developers are putting enough effort and time.

Mabz · Jan 6, 2009

sneh said:
Yeah, that's my thinking. UT3 has a lot of bad ju-ju surrounding it, why try to expand on it.

I just really hope to see something fresh, new general theme etc..
I never quite liked the style of UT3 in terms of visuals personally, so if i.e. they literally use the same assets from UT3 I'm gonna throw up all over my keyboard

(oh, and maybe UT4 would be UT2009 anyway, so they can save that for UE4? Speculation on top of speculation...)

I think the visuals were stunning. I liked the character and stage level designs. The only thing that was missing in the visual was higher-res textures. I'd also like a new theme and a new direction. I've always wondered how a UT with a new story away from the imfamous Xan, Malcomn, Lauren would be. Perhaps that line of thinking attributed to GOW's character and game play uniqueness?

Grobut · Jan 6, 2009

Why call it UT then Rankz? maybe trying with a new MP focused IP that tries something different could be a good thing at this point, but radically changing an existing IP is never a good option, it just leads to scores of angry fans that want nothing to do with the new game because "i wanted UT, this is clearly not UT!", however, had it just had a new name, they would probably have given it an honest try.

Don't mess with the classics, if you want to try something new, make something new.

Mabz · Jan 6, 2009

Hhhmmm, Good point. It would most likely turn out to be a totally different game. While I do believe that inspiration also comes in the form of ingenuity I do agree with you that its important to maintain the roots.

dub · Jan 6, 2009

Rankz said:
I'd also like a new theme and a new direction. I've always wondered how a UT with a new story away from the imfamous Xan, Malcomn, Lauren would be.

Story-shmory. Why really look for a story in UT at all?
The stories always going to be added after the game.
"We have an arena shooter here... how can we shoe-horn in a story around that"
UT is always going to be an arena shooter and therefore the stories essentially always going to be the same in that it's going to be about a tournament. It's totally secondary.

I don't really understand people that fixated on UT storylines... if storylines are really what interest you in a game, go for an SP game, not a game that adds a story "just for the sake of it" - which is what it is in UT's case.
IMO.

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