Yurch's antics reach a new level!

yurch · Aug 24, 2001

You have heard it before... my rants and raves about scopes.
I have a little mutator I have made (thanks to UTProphet and LoTekK) that illustrates my proposed system.
It throws all zoom-sensitvity out the window.
If you want to make a long distance shot, it would be smarter to be crouching or prone.
Its all a sensitvity issue - and the numbers probobly need to be tweaked. I am decaring it a pre-beta-beta.

But please, try it before you buy it.

All the rushing threads have prompted me to mess with the running. You all should like it.

Put ra.u and ra.int in your system directory. It should show up as UnrealScopeSensitvityReduction in the mutator list.
note: rav2 shows up as yurches realaim.
*EDITED FOR NEW VERSION*
2.86 version here, with running changes!
Look in the last few pages, theres several versions around.

Infguy98 · Aug 24, 2001

BrownCow · Aug 24, 2001

Originally posted by yurch
Put ra.u and ra.int in your system directory. It should show up as UnrealScopeSensitvityReduction in the mutator list.

reduction? Aren't you making it more sensitive? I'm confused..

RAZZ · Aug 24, 2001

reduction as in small moves of the mouse make big moves of the scope.
takes a few shots to get used to it.

positive:
it makes you have to gently push the mouse, no more haphazard yanking it around.

err, unplanned side effect:
it lets a sniper cover more ground be being able to scan faster.

Infguy98 · Aug 24, 2001

hmm... I didn't like this mutator.
The only thing with Infs zoom that needs to be better is the "shakiness" of the gun. Even with the stamina at zero you can snipe like a good. Make it more like Deus Ex.

yurch · Aug 24, 2001

thats outa my field.
Leading shots, and compensating for ballistics are things snipers need to do as well.... they arent in inf yet either.
In a way, you can consider that kinda of random wobble "luck"
I can possibly simulate that by adding a extremly slow drift downward...
The player fighting to keep his scope aimed at a target creates his own wobble.

Farouk · Aug 24, 2001

I don't like it at all. It's not just that it's more sensitive. I can move the crosshair only snapping on an invisible grit (about 20x20 pixels). Meaning no matter how slowly and cautious I move the mouse the crosshair will jump onto the next point on the grit which is quite recoginzeable with the Robar (20 pixels at once). This makes aiming over long distances not difficult but completly impossible.

And it's cheater / bugabuser heaven. There are mouses (for example Kärna Razer Boomslang 2000) that allow to adjust mouse sensitivity on the fly, with the buttons/mousewheel on your mouse outside of Unreal Tournament's influence. You don't even have to move your hand from the mouse to nullify the sensistivity effect.

I really support the goal that sniping should be more difficult, but that is not the right way.

Farouk · Aug 24, 2001

I am also for some kind of Deus Ex wavering. You don't need to make it random.
You can just add a horizontal component to the breathing. If you make it dependant on stamina and wouldn't allow to bring the crosshair to a complete steadiness when controlling breath it might be a good system.

Personally, I don't have any problems with randomness in the scope movemnet as also the twitching of one's muscles are random, which you have to actively steady by using concentration. It's not too much to allow make the Sniper do the same wizth his mouse. If it's a smooth and not too fast randomness and he has some skill with his mouse he can adjust pretty well.

yurch · Aug 24, 2001

its more of the opposite, iron sights have an easier time.
We play with that grid effect handicap all the time - and by we I mean those of us who use iron sights.

Notice the grid effect is worst while standing. Its the whole damn point behind the thing.
Right now the accuracy while standing is horridly far. Its rediculous that anyone expects to shoot across EP accurately like that.

Those cheaters you speak of have the same ease of cheating with the current inf method as it stands. That is not a valid reason to not change the aiming system around.

BrownCow · Aug 24, 2001

i don't understand why standing would offer less accuracy then when crouching. Then you are making it so you can't snipe behind a box..

WIERD!!

Cool though, keep it up, yer bound to get a good working system.

Farouk · Aug 24, 2001

I usually play with ironsights, exept on the really large open maps (EP). And I knew the ironsight's grid effect, but lowering the mouse software's sensetivity got rid of it. I can move the M16 (most used) ironsights with per pixel accuracy now (at 1200x1024 res). I don't have a "mad turning speed" like a quaker anymore, but that adds only to the realism anyway. Only downfall is that the mouse is ass slow in the menu system. (Is there any way to speed up the mouse just in the menu but not in the actual game?)

All I can say the scope grid effect takes heavily away from the immersion of the "being there" feeling, which is what I like most at Inf.

McMuffin · Aug 24, 2001

Offline only I'm afraid

good work anyway though

Anyway a wavering would in some ways compensate for the grid effect, because you could hold steady at one point and wait for the waver to put the gun on target.

Also adjusting Windows' and UT's mouse sensitivity settings can minimize the grid until it's almost unnoticeable... but then again I'm using a decent optical trackball so it's still not perfect for all. Will it ever be though? Ping advantage it seems will always play a major factor until everyone has broadband or netcode gets so efficient that everyone pings double digits no matter where they are in the world...

Great mute for bot play though. Hope it still works with 286

BrownCow · Aug 24, 2001

I understand teh grid thing though. You can't possibly move in small increments with a robar. The zoom on that thing is obscene irl. So, on a map like ep, of course you won't be able to move a few pixles left or right.. That is such a distance that the tinyest movement would throw your aim way off. Which makes ya think, what good is a rifle that can zoom like that? You don't have to zoom that far, but if you do, good luck

RAZZ · Aug 24, 2001

The "snapping" effect is comming from your mouse, not your game

thats cause of the low rez readouts of ball mice.
Im using a lazer, so its smooth but sensitive.

you cant swing a gun 90 degrees while looking through a scope.
maybe a "blotter" or something to simulate a jerky optic view, plus a way to limit their control to "fast" within a certain area of where they started using the scope, and slow it down to a crawl, when they aim outside of that.

maybe adding a bit of momentum to the aim as you change direction would work too.
moving fast would mean you have to stop before your target, or scroll back to compensate.
not exactly irl, but might get the desired results.

yurch · Aug 24, 2001

McMuffin, how did you test it online?
Did you add a serverpackage?

I am going by my experiences(and surveys of others) shooting while standing. It aint easy.
Possibly with 2.86's weapon collision thing i can allow players to "rest" the gun on a box...
I am not sure how it works... yet

Another idea...
Mouse Accelleration.
A complicated (but brilliant) function that allows a player to make fine movements while moving mouse(or joystick, dont forget them!) slowly... but still allows the player to whip around quickly.

yurch · Aug 24, 2001

Originally posted by Farouk
Only downfall is that the mouse is ass slow in the menu system. (Is there any way to speed up the mouse just in the menu but not in the actual game?)

yes, there is a setting called GUI mouse speed. Guess what that does

c+k|nEVeRmOre · Aug 24, 2001

I have never liked acceleration turned on. I like to know exactly how much I have to move my trackball in order to move a certain distance on the screen. The same goes for my gaming experiences. I do not like acceration there, either.

McMuffin, what kind of trackball do you use?

Farouk · Aug 24, 2001

And where is that setting? I couldn't find it it Infiltrtion.ini nor in InfiltrationUser.ini.

yurch · Aug 24, 2001

i dunno, but i remember it is in the menus somewhere...?

c+k|nEVeRmOre · Aug 24, 2001

You have to open UT and set the GUI mouse speed there

Yurch's antics reach a new level!

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