StarCraft II

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Thrallala

Wait, if you're here then that means...
May 11, 2008
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Under the bridge downtown.
It seems that no matter how many bases I have, there is no way to break into a Sieged up terran's base without saccing your entire army.
Any tips or replays I could watch?

Been in more or less the exact same situation before, also playing protoss versus terran. What worked for me was to attack him with pretty much only Carriers, which wiped out his base pretty darn quick.
 

Juggalo Kyle

Sup brah.
Mar 23, 2005
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Northern Cali
Yeah, so I want to do some commentary on my You Tube channel too. Casted a very short 1v1 match today between Abver and DuckloadRa. Let me know what you think. Maybe next time I'll record the ingame sounds.

[M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOgi6ER5STA&hd=1[/M]
 

Darkdrium

20% Cooler
Jun 6, 2008
3,239
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FLAMEFLAMEFLAMEFLAME :D

But you may want to post in this thread if you wish.
Or on the forums there (make your own thread), who knows how it will turn out :)

WhiteRa's really lost it though it seems. :/
 

Rambowjo

Das Protoss
Aug 3, 2005
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You have a great voice! Your mic makes a funny noise sometimes, I think you might be keeping it too close to other electrical devices, possibly a cellphone.

Personally I want to do more casting, but I'm kinda split between doing entertaining casts, or actually being a little more educational.

edit: avoid saying "gee gee". Say "good game" instead.
 
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Kantham

Fool.
Sep 17, 2004
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I think you have what it takes to be a caster. Just got to put more vibe when action occurs and you should improve along just fine.

WhiteRa's really lost it though it seems. :/

He lost to a Zerg player. There was someone playing Zerg and he won against one of the 2 races in the game (+1 if anyone gets it). That's beyond an achievement.

edit: avoid saying "gee gee". Say "good game" instead.

Why?
 
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Darkdrium

20% Cooler
Jun 6, 2008
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I mean from an overall perspective, the games I see from WhiteRa are the ones where he always loses now. It's been a while since there's been a game on HD or Husky's channel where he's won.
 

DarQraven

New Member
Jan 20, 2008
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I think you have what it takes to be a caster. Just got to put more vibe when action occurs and you should improve along just fine.



He lost to a Zerg player. There was someone playing Zerg and he won against one of the 2 races in the game (+1 if anyone gets it). That's beyond an achievement.



Why?

One of three races in the game ...


You forgot random.

I am getting seriously annoyed with 2v2 atm. For some reason my roomie just refuses to macro past 10 minutes and ONLY goes for cutesy strats. Nukes. Thor drops. Early ghosts. You name it. A victory that didn't involve cloak or sneaky tech switches is not a victory worth having, apparently.

Problem is that all of them, combined with a lack of macro, leave him completely without any army to speak of, which means that I get 2v1-ed without fail while he is out having fun with nukes and doing no significant damage.

One day, I'd like to just see him get a MILLION barracks and build nothing but marine/marauder. If only...
 
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Rambowjo

Das Protoss
Aug 3, 2005
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Zerg is pretty good to be honest. I've been playing it lately and they are incredibly strong. People are just bad at playing zerg.
 

Kantham

Fool.
Sep 17, 2004
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I know. It still doesn't remove the fact that people still favor Toss and Terran and that's all we keep seeing.
 

inferyes

Spaced In
Aug 16, 2009
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You have to be playing at like 100 actions per minute to play Zerg effectively. They require a lot of multitasking.
 

Rambowjo

Das Protoss
Aug 3, 2005
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You have to be playing at like 100 actions per minute to play Zerg effectively. They require a lot of multitasking.

I actually rounded 100 APM last week. Feeling pretty good :)

GSL starting in 3 minutes. IdrA will play first.
 
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DarQraven

New Member
Jan 20, 2008
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I have no doubt that Zerg is capable of winning games. Are they as strong or at least as versatile as the other two races? Not a chance. I refer you to this thread for a pretty convincing look* at the state of Zerg and Terran.

With the exception of 5-roach rush and perhaps baneling bust, Zerg plays a reactionary game.
Protoss and particularly Terran have a billion different openings and the only way Zerg can survive is to pick the right one in defense.

1) Scout (in the case of walloff: Guess) what opponent could be doing.
2) Build counter.
3) If the counter was wrong, you lose. If the counter was right, you are back on equal footing (you still cannot get into a walled base).

An early game like that makes it near-impossible to win tournaments. Sure, you can win single matches, but the lack of good scouting and Zerg's weakness early game makes for a very difficult path through BO3/5 or even whole tournament environments.

(*Like others have stated, these stats are not conclusive proof. However, are you really going to tell me that this domination of Terran and to a lesser extent Protoss is caused by bad/few Zerg players? The ratio is 22T to 2Z ffs and in the case of round wins even worse: I cannot possibly imagine that there are 12 times more Terran players than Zergs entering these tournaments. Add to this that several top players have already admitted T is too versatile and Z is too weak [Dimaga, MorroW, IdrA, etc) and some have even considered switching races...)

The problem I see (from watching replays, discussions and to a lesser extent playing random for some weeks) is this:

Terran: They can techswitch without any real penalties. The reactor/techlab liftoff mechanic, as well as the unit distribution between buildings are the culprit here. You've got MMM and want Tank/Viking? Lift your barracks, land your factory and on the empty techlab, land your starport on the empty reactor, done. Build additional Factory while constructing another techlab at one of your raxes, swap when done. Want Ravens instead? Swap your Stargate to a techlab, done.
This ability, combined with Terran ALWAYS walling (so scouting being very difficult) vs Zerg makes the early game extra difficult for Zerg. Sacrifice an overlord, see two barracks+techlab? Marauders/reapers, rights? Wrong, one minute later it could be factories with techlabs and you'll have tanks eating up your counter to marauders.
Protoss is somewhat safeguarded because a core army of Stalkers is good (enough) against anything, and you only need to add relatively few units to complete that core army, Zerg is not. They have no solid jack of all trades. (other than perhaps the Hydralisk, but that is one expensive core unit)

Protoss: Are very strong in the early game, precisely the period where Zerg is weak. See: 2gate, 4warpgate, 1gate stargate, etc. To safely defend without walling off you'll need really good control on your Queen, probably some spine crawlers to back her up, etc. The counter is WAY harder than the attack itself - Any beginner can rush 12 Zealots into a Z base and do damage. The amount of money a Zerg needs to spend on early defense *just in case* sets them back significantly.
In addition there's something that I find hard to explain clearly, but I'll try.

Playing PvT, you can do a very basic scout before you ever need to put down your second gateway or cybercore. That decision can be based on scouting information. If you opted for 1gate core, you can again sac a probe up their ramp to see how many units are there to take it down and base your followup on that. It boils down to the fact that, when playing reactionary PvT, the timings JUST work out if you scout at the right times.
In ZvP, this is not the case. A zerg, due to their larva mechanic, will have to commit to certain builds before they ever get a chance to see what you are doing - you can't just build lots of Zerglings in early game and expect to have a good economy afterwards. With each of their tech buildings taking ages to build, they sort of have to base their counter on a narrowed-down-guess. They have to commit to 4-warpgate defense before I have to commit to the 4warpgate itself, to give an example, while the only thing they can see is two pylons, a gateway and a zealot. From that information, it could also be 1gate stargate.

That's definitely an issue.
 
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[VaLkyR]Anubis

Foregone Destruction
Jan 20, 2008
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www.youtube.com
Every single race has it's pros and cons, but in general, all three races are very interesting and make a lot of fun. However, Protoss can get very soon on your nerves as people do. If you play as Protoss, you can make a fast rush and your game is over after 3 or 4 minutes. Makes sense to do this vs AI, but vs people, oh well...don't like it that much. But if you wanna win, just do it!

Nevertheless, Zerg units are really strong, especially when you gotta huge bunch of them, then you need a **** load of Terran or Protoss units to get them away. Despite this, Terran and Zerg can't make a similar early rush like Protoss, but I don't give a ****.

Overall, it really depends on your style of gaming and there every race is better than the other. So to speak, you can't make a clear decision.

Anyway, I personally dislike playing games or matches within some minutes! That's bollocks! I prefer to have normal matches, which can take several hours. I already played a 3v3 match and this one took 4 hours and that was a lot of fun.

To be honest, I never played any match online, really never. I watched a **** load of replays, but otherwise nothing else. Some of those replays have been really ridiculous, but who's counting!

By the way Juggalo Kyle, you did a good job on this video! I liked it, how you commented all actions in this match. That's why, I'm really excited to see more videos like this one by you. Keep it up! :)
 

DarQraven

New Member
Jan 20, 2008
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[VaLkyR]Anubis;2466761 said:
Every single race has it's pros and cons, but in general, all three races are very interesting and make a lot of fun. However, Protoss can get very soon on your nerves as people do. If you play as Protoss, you can make a fast rush and your game is over after 3 or 4 minutes. Makes sense to do this vs AI, but vs people, oh well...don't like it that much. But if you wanna win, just do it!

Nevertheless, Zerg units are really strong, especially when you gotta huge bunch of them, then you need a **** load of Terran or Protoss units to get them away. Despite this, Terran and Zerg can't make a similar early rush like Protoss, but I don't give a ****.

Overall, it really depends on your style of gaming and there every race is better than the other. So to speak, you can't make a clear decision.

Anyway, I personally dislike playing games or matches within some minutes! That's bollocks! I prefer to have normal matches, which can take several hours. I already played a 3v3 match and this one took 4 hours and that was a lot of fun.

To be honest, I never played any match online, really never. I watched a **** load of replays, but otherwise nothing else. Some of those replays have been really ridiculous, but who's counting!

By the way Juggalo Kyle, you did a good job on this video! I liked it, how you commented all actions in this match. That's why, I'm really excited to see more videos like this one by you. Keep it up! :)

This is not about personal preference or Zerg being a different playstyle, this is about statistics:

Since launch, Terran have won TWELVE+ TIMES more tournament matches than Zerg. Terran has won ELEVEN TIMES more first places in tournaments than Zerg.

I don't care if Ultralisks are Jesus' reincarnation into Zerg form, if the Zerg player never gets to that point it doesn't matter.

edited for correct figures.
 
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inferyes

Spaced In
Aug 16, 2009
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I think part of that is because the games campaign only covers the Terran tree so most people who begin playing online pick Terran because they already know how to play them.

I personally played Terran in the original Starcraft MP so I went ahead and played Terran in SC2. I'm also pretty good at Protoss and mediocre at Zerg. Also, Protoss zealot rushes can take down a Terran base pretty damn fast. In the time that people can build 1 or 2 marines I can get 4 zealots hacking away at their supply wall.
 
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[VaLkyR]Anubis

Foregone Destruction
Jan 20, 2008
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This is not about personal preference or Zerg being a different playstyle, this is about statistics:

Since launch, Terran have won TWENTYFIVE TIMES more tournament matches than Zerg. Terran has won FIVE TIMES more first places in tournaments than Zerg.

I don't care if Ultralisks are Jesus' reincarnation into Zerg form, if the Zerg player never gets to that point it doesn't matter.
I wasn't talking about any personal preference/s or anything else. However, you said it yourself already. Most people prefer more Terran, because they probably got more knowledge and experience with them by playing the single player through. However, on the other side, it is also possible to believe that most people aren't really interested to do something new, to try new stuff, just to do the same old stuff, in order to have the biggest chance to win. But hey, as I said before, I never played online, so I can guess and assume only, nothing else. It is nothing serious, aye.

By the way, what's the point of calling the Ultralisk as jesus reincarnation? Who the hell thinks or believes, that this is the best unit of the Zerg or the strongest unit of the entire game? Sounds like bollocks, coz it is not too hard to take this monster down.
 
Apr 11, 2006
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Terran is overpowered in options compared to the other races. It's lame to me to see Terran having things like flying buildings, buildings that turn into base defenses, reclaimable base defenses, walls that can be bypassed easily, sensor towers - And the other races barely get anything. Protoss have Warpgates, which are definitely powerful, but nothing else they have does anything. Zerg have the most restrictive building placement but none of their buildings have anything worth speaking of. The crawler ideas were cool, but ruined by the impractically long burrow time.

I say this from a purely spectator point of view - It's just boring to watch high level play where Terran players are comfortable getting nothing but Marauders. They've got siege tanks, transforming robots, huge monster robots, ghosts with nukes, Ravens with auto turrets, PDD, and the only thing I see Terrans do with all of these cool units is mass Marauders. It's so boring that I've been looking for Warcraft 3 replays to watch lately instead of more annoying SC2 Terran.

The Marauder in particular is too good: Too cheap, too quick to build, too little tech cost, too many special abilities, too much HP, too much damage. Change one or two of these and the unit would be okay, but right now it's lame. I also think Reapers should have to research the D8 charges ability so they aren't effective vs. Buildings in the early game. I wouldn't mind if said research improved them in some other way as well - Reapers are cool units and it's lame they're only used in the early game or not at all.

I also think the Viking should have its AtA range toned down - It seems stupid to me that the defensive race has both the longest ranged ground unit(s) and the longest ranged anti-air units - So basically if you want to attack a Terran fortified position, you are guaranteed to be taking losses before you even have a chance to hit them. That means you need more forces to even come out even - But that's just not possible once you hit the supply cap.