View Full Version : mmmm gibs!

19th Aug 2004, 06:02 AM
I saw the movie and noticed when one of the players stepped on a mine he blew up into chunks. :eek:
Now will you guys be using custom giblets and other blood fx(decals and emitters) to make this mod stand out from the standard UT2003/4 low quality gore?

19th Aug 2004, 01:25 PM
Yes, blood pools, gibbys, bones, armor, guns, everything, everywhere! And I want some washers on my raptor to wipe away all the thick blood from my window when I run someone over. The gut blow needs to be more bloody! :lol:

Captain Kewl
19th Aug 2004, 02:00 PM
The gameplay mechanics don't allow gibs in normal player deaths. We'll definitely do something for the gutblows though. :)

19th Aug 2004, 03:33 PM
o yes
new gutblow animation

19th Aug 2004, 04:53 PM
Hmm that reminds me, in xmp they didnt use karma physics, adding it in now seems obvious but with reviving that wont work so easy... Are you guys gonna make it so they have death animations only, or will some deaths be unrevivable and go into ragdoll (better imo)? Like a certain negative damage that will let you be revived and another that ragdolls you.

Captain Kewl
19th Aug 2004, 05:02 PM
As it stands right now we're not going to do anything with ragdoll deaths.

19th Aug 2004, 05:19 PM

19th Aug 2004, 05:28 PM
how about...(i hope) for your death animations...u just use a ragdoll to make them...so atleast it looks a bit better. If that's possible at all. Also, would it be possible for diff anims depending on the weapon..so if you're hit by a rocket launcher..your animation would like send you flying high into the air. But say if ur killed with a shottie..you're shot back far. OR if you're killed with a sniper (head shot) your body just kinda stays still...then colapses...maybe make them interesting (I know its alot of work)..but just an idea

Captain Kewl
19th Aug 2004, 05:36 PM
Well the problem as I understand it (and I'll admit I haven't really looked into this) is that ragdolls exist entirely clientside... so while one person sees a ragdoll tumbling down stairs, somone else at that same moment might see the same ragdoll flying into the air. There's no way to keep it consistent and still have them be ragdolls... which becomes a problem when someone is trying to revive a fallen teammate. What he sees , the pose and more importantly the positioning, might not be what's actually there.

We might be able to do something with deaths that players can't revive from, like mercy kills and gutblows -- we'll see. Ragdolls haven't been completely ruled out, but right now it's not really something I want to spend time thinking about.

19th Aug 2004, 07:24 PM
Hmm well, what i was saying and i think would be good is just have it so that if your barely killed, like your health is only taken like a small negative past death then you do a animation, but if you get raped, like a tank blast, you ragdoll. Could also go by momentum transfer, if your going to get blown a good distance you should die and ragdoll.

IMO it would be better to not have revives at all than to have people get blown across the map by a tank and be revived. Plus, more often than not, people will not be revived, cause they tap out to spawn, get ammo, make the spawn time, or just cause medics arnt around often.

19th Aug 2004, 08:17 PM
Revive add more aspects to teamplay than Ragdoll effects do. who cars about realism if anyone did the engine would be called "Real" not "Unreal" i say keep the revive and drop the ragdoll effects thier nice but all they are, are effects

20th Aug 2004, 04:25 AM
How about we leave it the way it is in U2? You know, the way that no one complains about. The way its been since the inception of the game.

20th Aug 2004, 06:48 AM
Leave it as is. I dont care about gore and gibs as long as the game stays the same and revive works. At last revive is what counts for the game.

20th Aug 2004, 07:44 AM
i want gore and gibs damn it
u mean the original we all complain about becasue of gas spammers (plez make gas less usefull)

20th Aug 2004, 07:49 AM
Full Ack @Nek:
Don't change anything. Revive ist a MUST! Ragdoll ist a NICE-TO-HAVE. I am very pleased to see that FMI is capable of producing a nearly-100%-port from the original XMP :notworthy:

Nice work! If we can support you in ANY FORM ("we" means the german XMP Community) let us know.



20th Aug 2004, 07:52 AM
The could be a "Use Ragdoll" mutator for those who are persistant :P

Emmet Otter
20th Aug 2004, 11:09 AM
I dont know why you want ragdoll in this game. U2XMP did fine with us hardcore fans for a while, is there any need to change it now!? I hope you guys dont turn this into an XMP/ONS.

Guys, XMP did sorta ok if it wasnt for the severe lag and crappy vehicle handling. Thats what everyone complained about! Otherwise the game itself was just perfect. :)

Scott Dalton
20th Aug 2004, 05:04 PM
FWIW - we had 100% capability of doing ragdolls in U2XMP.

We didn't do them for exactly the reasons that Captain Kewl has stated. We originally intended to fling them out of a vehicle when it exploded, but to be honest, we had four people working on the entire game at the time, and a little visual gimmick wasn't so important to us as real gameplay, so it never made it in.

There are a ton of gameplay implecations if you try to do ragdoll deaths that would need to be dealt with.

First and foremost, they're done client side, so you'd have to switch that over to being server side to prevent all sorts of horrible exploits in addition to a lot of visual glitches that would occur even if people weren't actively trying to exploit. A few obvious things fall out of this (sync between server and client, additional server load, etc.)

Second is that anyplace a ragdoll falls, they have to be revivable in that position. This is easy when we've got an animation of their death, because the body isn't interacting with the environment. It becomes much more difficult when you want the body to -look- like it's interacting with the environment, but not get stuck someplace where badness happens should the person get revived. Under a railing, smashed in a rock, etc. etc.

Third is that there is a good immediate indicator that someone hasn't tapped out - and that is that they continue to animate on the ground, writhing, awaiting revival. Once ragdolled, UT2K4 characters aren't going to take animations. So there's no visual indicator between a guy awaiting revival and a dead guy.

Fourth is that it's a matter of degrees. Once you see guys ragdoll and gib from certain types of deaths, why can't you just make them do that to them while they're lying on the ground? We wanted the ranger to have his special mercy kill ability rather than everyone just shooting a downed enemy until they gibbed or died.

So, just so everyone knows - these were all factors into our concious decision to omit ragdolls. It wasn't a technology limitation at all, but there were enough issues that would require resolving that it simply died amidst trade-offs to make other parts of the -gameplay- better.

Perhaps the guys at Free Monkey will feel strongly enough about this to resolve those issues, but given our loading, it just was a silly thing to be trading off features against.
Were I pursuing it right now, I would probably do the exploding vehicles thing, and perhaps make bodies ragdoll when a player taps out or is mercy killed - basically, all non-revivable, non-gutblow deaths. It's a compromise that avoids all of the problems above, but still gives you some good ragdoll visuals here and there.

20th Aug 2004, 06:04 PM
Something tells me no one else is going to be able to add anything to this topic now ^^

Welcome to the forum Scott, nice to see you posting here :)

We originally intended to fling them out of a vehicle when it exploded
I really like the sound of that. If you add in the way the UT2k4 vehicles blow up, it could look very impressive.

We'll definitely do something for the gutblows though.
I wanna see the players head bouncing of the windscreen of the raptor with an expresion on his face that looks something like this :eek:

20th Aug 2004, 06:05 PM
No Revive/Ragdoll Mutator ?

20th Aug 2004, 06:19 PM
I wanna see the players head bouncing of the windscreen of the raptor with an expresion on his face that looks something like this :eek:
:lol: this i want

21st Aug 2004, 03:58 AM
I suppose the topic's dead! ^^

The master has spoken! ;)

21st Aug 2004, 05:59 AM
Nice that Scott provides FMI and us with these insider-information :)
I think Ex-Legend likes the way their "baby" keeps on living.

Back to the ragdoll-thing:

The idea of letting ragdolls fly out of exploding vehicles is great! PUT IT IN! :D
The :eek:-expression of gutblowed players would also be nice :lol: But it isn't THAT easy. I think it was a joke ;)

Maybe I have a little idea for the clientside-animation-problem (don't know exactly):

When the player dies (and the ragdoll-animation starts) the server calculates the landing position (ability to check for revivabilty) and the client "interpolates". Means: Clientside ragdoll-calculation with endpoint given by the server...

Would that solve some problems?

21st Aug 2004, 12:12 PM
that is a good idea, but why not have the server also calculate what the trajectory is on top of that, like weather or not the model goes flying, or falls down teh stairs?

21st Aug 2004, 05:02 PM
Having the player die, ragdoll and then be revived wouldnt work as many mods have wanted already (i was with the bowling guys for a while and ragdoll was a prob), but having a player die then ragdoll without being revied is a ok idea, there are some deaths were a player shouldnt be able to be revived.

Its not something that should be given priority obviously, but it should still stay on the list of possible things to add.