1on1 Pack Released

Anyone else get these yet?

I hate to stir the level design gods, but while the pack overall is excellent I'm a little disappointed with a couple of specific problems. I'm a huge fan of Tonnberry's and Hourences', but I think they got a little sloppy this time in a couple instances.

We all already know the Mastering Unreal winning 1on1-Alpu2, but in Alpu3 it's like Tonnberry forgot to add blocking volumes in several key spots. There are all sorts of places to get stuck along the walls, and the walls in some areas cause you to do this strange jolting thing. I think it's because the lower part of the wall is too low and the area above that flat part angles away from the floor, causing a player to step up the wall a bit and then slide back down in quick, jolting motions. Some blocking volumes along these walls would quickly and easily resolve the issue.

It seems like such an obvious fix -- I wonder if they hurried this pack out without enough beta testing.

My problem with the Hourences maps are with the ambient sounds:

CliffyB:

When using ambient sounds in your map, try to use subtle ones. This always used to drive me crazy in Tundra- the looping of that wind drove me to kill many small puppies.

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Well, thankfully I can say that I somehow managed to spare the small puppies after playing DM-1on1-Argel. The ambient sound in that map just plain drowns out the gameplay while simultaneously attempting to dissolve your sanity.

The bizarre thing for me is that I view Hourences as the master of ambient sound design. DM-Rankin is a great, self-contained tutorial on ambient sound design and the best sound design I ever experienced in the old UT engine was in Hourences' maps for ONP and Xidia. Go figure. I wonder if his success with those projects has caused him to over-emphasize sound in his recent maps.

Sae makes up for the over-loud ambient sounds with a rich, original and distinct atmosphere, but Argel doesn't feature the same compositional distinction. That may be my personal taste, as the over-abundance of that light blue just doesn't appeal to me. *shrug* There's certainly plenty of detail to make it stand out from the crowd.

On first impression, I liked Obsidian and Tangora. But I still need to play those more before I can offer any more detailed response.

It's still a very worthwhile pack if you're into level design, but keep your hopes humble and fair as you're downloading.

Hehe, nice feedback Go&nd, shame you wasn't able to test the masp be4 the release. Haven't tried the pack myself but will do, and will look extra carefull for those things you listed

you have a messed up sound config, tweak it

I'll look into it. :tup:

But over 100 other maps in UT2004 feature perfectly fine sound on my system.

Also, it's not like noise or distortion. It's just too much ambient sound for good gameplay. *shrug* I did notice that it's not quite as bad if I turn off EAX. But it's still too much. (/me braces for Hourences' response.)

However, I will look into how I might improve my sound settings. Perhaps it is something that can be tweaked and not just my over-analytic nature.

I also want to mention that my criticism comes from holding high standards for these designers. Maybe that's not entirely fair. You'll still find a helluva lot more quality in this map pack than you'll find in most custom maps out there. :tup:

Personally, I think the maps rock. Great flow, beautiful visuals, no framerate stutter. Didn't notice any problem with the ambients at all.

Alpu is a total blast in 2k4, a much faster map somehow.

I wouldn't mind if a moderator moved my post to the User Reviews forum. I think it would be more appropriate there. But perhaps it isn't worth anyone's time.

I stand by my criticisms. I just came from a buddy's place and we both experience the same problems in Alpu3. Try either backing into the wall or running along the wall right by the Flak Cannon (where the Shock Rifle was in Alpu2). It's a real shame for what is otherwise a great map.

And tweaks or no tweaks, on two different systems with different sound cards, for two experienced & discriminating deathmatch players, the ambient sound is just too much on Argel and Sae. The sound on Sae is more acceptable because it's a visually-striking theme-oriented map. But I suspect that Argel at least has some sketchy EAX implementation, as turning off EAX results in much more tolerable ambient sound.

However, the more I play Idrus, Tangora and Obsidian, the more I like them. So overall, the pack gets a thumbs up from me. I just think it needed better QA testing.

But if you're serious about good deathmatch play, you'll just copy Alpu2 over into UT2004 instead of playing Alpu3. (Alpu2 runs fine in UT2004.) Alpu2 may provide less atmosphere than Alpu3, but it features more bright & clear visibility and smooth walls without quirky collision problems, thus it provides a better hardcore gameplay experience. :tup:

Go&nd said:

But if you're serious about good deathmatch play, you'll just copy Alpu2 over into UT2004 instead of playing Alpu3. (Alpu2 runs fine in UT2004.) Alpu2 may provide less atmosphere than Alpu3, but it features more bright & clear visibility and smooth walls without quirky collision problems, thus it provides a better hardcore gameplay experience. :tup:

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Ah, well I play with EAX turned off as the implementation in UT2K4 seems buggy on my system (loops, inconsistencies, badly occluded maps), so that probably explains one discrepancy.

Good point. I haven't had any problems until Argel, but I've heard of others having some problems with EAX in UT2004. Perhaps it was unfair for me to say that "Argel at least has some sketchy EAX implementation" if it's the result of a bug in UT2004. :tup:

Mr. VoreLord to you!!

Well, at the moment I would agree, I prefer Alpu2 over Alpu3, and have been using it in UT2004 without problems. Sae, well, I never liked it much to start with, and things haven't changed. Tangora I didn't care much for, the rest of the maps are pretty good. All in all the pack is well worth the download, everyone is sure to find something to suite thier personal preferences.

Whatever Go&nd . I hold this pack as better than the CBP. Awesome work Hourences!

I noticed the exact same thing on Alpu as well and thought it was strange. It's like Tonnberry didn't adequately put BlockingVolumes along the borders because the player will "stutter" if (s)he walks or strafes into them. They must be at that threshold of being able to step over them and Unreal gets confused.

I like Tangora a lot. The organic rain + plants theme struck a nice chord with me. Obsidian I also liked. Sae was beautiful, but also ran a bit choppy when you look at the statue. Argel was also gorgeous, but things got a little choppy with all of the volumetric fog crawling about. None of them were unplayable, but I just noticed a framerate dip. In all of the maps, I really love the attention paid to what some might call "throwaway details." It's the window swaying on the ceiling that the snow falls through, the gorgeous skyboxes, and the eerie lighting schemes, that really make these maps stand out.

A couple other things that bug me.

I agree with the sentiment that a couple of the levels were noisy with ambient sounds. Especially, for example, when you walk on planks of wood. Sometimes, they squeak too much for something that's really quite invulnerable. And also, the whole "misplaced tiles" thing. The deal with having missing floor tiles or shifted wall bricks is practically cliche. I say this only because one of the maps, Obsidian I think, really overdid this.

But overall, these are really gorgeous and well-playing maps that need to be experienced. Without a doubt, the 40+ meg download is worth it. So kudos to all involved in its construction - it's sweet despite its flaws.

Kyouryuu said:

I noticed the exact same thing on Alpu as well and thought it was strange. It's like Tonnberry didn't adequately put BlockingVolumes along the borders because the player will "stutter" if (s)he walks or strafes into them. They must be at that threshold of being able to step over them and Unreal gets confused.

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Exactly. :tup:

In all of the maps, I really love the attention paid to what some might call "throwaway details." It's the window swaying on the ceiling that the snow falls through, the gorgeous skyboxes, and the eerie lighting schemes, that really make these maps stand out
.
.
.
But overall, these are really gorgeous and well-playing maps that need to be experienced. Without a doubt, the 40+ meg download is worth it. So kudos to all involved in its construction - it's sweet despite its flaws.

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I agree. I feel a little silly for having focused on the problems too much in my initial posts. As a whole, these ARE exceptional & original maps with a tremendous attention to detail.

I think I loaded Alpu and Argel first and second -- and I stand by my observations of those maps -- but perhaps I let my nitpicks with those particular maps influence my initial perception of the overall pack.

However, I would like to see a re-release of a "fixed" version of Alpu3. It seems like such a silly, irritating little error for such a classic map.

So anyways... I'll shuddup now.

Kyouryuu said:

And also, the whole "misplaced tiles" thing. The deal with having missing floor tiles or shifted wall bricks is practically cliche. I say this only because one of the maps, Obsidian I think, really overdid this.

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If mappers don't do stuff like that, people complain that the map isn't detailed enough and that it should be for some outdated game instead (UT99 I think it used to be called... ), but if it is done people complain that it's cliche and anything else they can think of. It's not a flaw either way. Play the maps and be happy.

It's okay for people to be analytic and critical of good maps, ya know. I think Hourences would be the first to support good, critical discussion of level design.

The problem with the "misplaced tiles" thing is that it has been a "device" utilized since early UT99 maps.

It's not as much a graphical detail as it is a device to 1) break up flat surfaces, 2) create a more realistic "lived-in" atmosphere, and 3) add subtle variations along the z-axis of the player's viewport to encourage the sensation of quicker movement.

It's a hard device to ignore or give-up, but I agree that it's starting to seem a little cliché... for lack of some other ingenius device, however, I'd probably still use it.

Point well made. I suppose if a map was made with a realistic scene in mind, one would know what should be all over the floor instead of shifted tiles/floorboards. Unfortunately, these maps never turn out well. Hmm... the stuff all over my bedroom floor could provide a lot of z-axis...

*Cough* Pokes Cliffy with the 0wnage stick *Cough*

Very, very nice work! Hourences, shame no weapon bases were in your maps though.

Oh no, I know exactly why map designers do it. Heck, I'd do it myself if the opportunity presented itself. It's just that seeing it so often, it gets to be a little cliche. Floors can be difficult things to decorate. Aside from the shifted tile thing, you could have floor grates, or terrain if you're in UT200X, but there aren't too many options other than those to break up the monotony. So, I think the best way around it is avoidance - don't have these flat stretches of floor. Easier said than done, of course.

But that's neither here nor there, I do not think it be anywhere.

Oh I figured you understood -- I was just elaborating for Mr. Z-Axis-On-the-Bedroom-Floor. And he may have understood it already, too. Just blathering on I suppose.

I just played through another round of 1v1s with these maps. Yeah, they're awesome. But I'd really love to see Alpu3 "fixed." I love the improved atmosphere of the map, and I want to consider it a replacement for the older version in every way.

The collision fix would suffice, but I have two other tiny little nitpicks with it.

1) I don't quite understand the purpose of replacing the super shield with the keg o health, but maybe that's just me.
2) The glass texture for the area right next to the flak cannon is too clear. You can take screenshots of that spot and it looks like one should be able to fall right through (this is the spot that had the grate texture on it in Alpu2). Again, like I said, these are just nitpicks.

On one other note, I hope I haven't driven Hourences away from this thread with my irritating posts. I'd love to see him write a tutorial for Argel like the one he wrote for Sae. The detail in Argel is phenomenal and I'd love to see a description of its development process.

And one last thing (really this time -- I'm going to bed now). I love the map titles. They're appropriate, original and slightly mysterious in a cool way.

From 1on1pack_readme.txt:

Guide:

*.ut2 files go in Maps/

*.usx files go in StaticMeshes/

*.utx files go in Textures/

*.ogg files go in Music/

*.uax files go in Sounds/

*.u and *.int files go in System/

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Where are the rest of the files other than the .ut2s? ^^;