UT Zombies3-Beta

[Delacroix]

No, this time YOU behave like a jerk. See, there's a difference in creating a duplicate of the same goddamn file causing mismatches ad nauseum or distributing a fix only via server without a webpage even and having organized distribution, with every new version having a unique filename (no mismatches) and being available @ project homepage. MrLoathsome hosts all his mods at this ecoop thing and every latest version is there. All one needs to do in order to check for updates is visit his site, mentioned in the readme. No mess created this way. YOU don't get to see the difference between these two vastly different methods of maintaining a project -- the disorganized way I supported you in criticizing of (remember the MH 'screenshot' thread?) and organized, clean way Loathsome is following and which is all-ok to the community.

 

[evilgrins]

All the Zombies are now dead.

Isn't that redundant?

Take a clear UT and try.

I'm not sure what that means. Sorry.

 

[MrLoathsome]

I purposely kept my altered zombies from functioning outside my map.

I have been trying to wrap my brain around why you would do that, and
yet then include some source you broke purposely.

Only thing I can think of is that you were initially ok with other people
using it as long as anything they did with it wasn't working better
than what you did with it.....

Your explanation that you have "Special Code" in your version that keeps
scriptedpawns in line, is very, very weak.

Stop releasing a version each change, do some serious testing (which I have offered to help with, and have done), and release something that is finished.

In addition to being delusional, you seem to have some serious reading
comprehension issues.

I just checked my work folder. I have 88 slightly different copies of the
Zombies3Beta and Zombie4.

Perhaps I should zip them all up into 1 giant Mega-pack, so that your
comments about the "Mess of versions" would have some basis in reality.

If YOU actually did any serious testing with this and FAILED to notice
that that entire ZombieCoordinator class and all the references to it
were doing nothing at all but wasting memory and CPU cycles, it makes
me wonder if you even know what you are doing.
Anything that class was attempting to do get handled automatically by
the pawns state code....

Perhaps you should stick to mapping and leave the coding to people who
understand how things work.

"I Answer Stuff" <----

 

[gopostal]

Your explanation that you have "Special Code" in your version that keeps
scriptedpawns in line, is very, very weak.

I told you in our first conversation about the zombies that they would not work as a mod. In fact I clearly stated there were serious problems with them but that I only altered very little because A) it's not my mod and B) I just needed them in one map. I had no interest in 'fixing' them or I would have done just that. I never told you that I added any code to cause them not to work. I told you that I chose not to fix parts that were already broken. Don't make me post the email, I hate being improperly and unfairly quoted.

In addition to being delusional, you seem to have some serious reading
comprehension issues.

Nice, I rather like that. In fact, I'm going to sig it, if you are cool with me doing so?

If YOU actually did any serious testing with this and FAILED to notice
that that entire ZombieCoordinator class and all the references to it
were doing nothing at all but wasting memory and CPU cycles, it makes
me wonder if you even know what you are doing.
Anything that class was attempting to do get handled automatically by
the pawns state code....

Perhaps you should stick to mapping and leave the coding to people who
understand how things work.

Is this where I post some of the questions you posted to me where you had lack of knowledge in key areas concerning how to code the zombies? I'm not going to do that, because I have asked you equally basic questions about things I didn't know concerning areas you are strong in. It's called helping each other. I jumped at the chance to help you bro, have you forgotten the video explaining to you how to get the zombies to function? The personal attacks are unwarranted. You can not like me and that's fine but let's stick to the work. I'm an easy target to sling mud at, but I'm not really interested in returning that here. My mind can be changed though, keep it up.

I've already very clearly stated that the zombie code (95% of it) is NOT mine. I was hesitant to change anything in it I did not absolutely need to change and so therefore I didn't. It's just silly to try to hang the problems of the mod onto me when I can't be any clearer about my participation in it's development (or lack thereof).

And if were me, yeah I'd upload all eleventy-seven versions. You do good work and you release your source. Coders could learn from what you have done. The TWT zombies are trashed now anyway, I should never have brought them back. Ultimate responsibility here is mine.

 

[Arnox]

Oh, let's all stop whining and go and have tea!

And put Zombies4 back on please.

 

[MrLoathsome]

Oh, let's all stop whining and go and have tea!

And put Zombies4 back on please.

Agreed !!

However, when I put the next version of this up, it will
be Zombies5. And hopefully it will make everybody happy, including
GoPostal. It will be available soon in post #1, after a bunch more testing
and tweaking. It will also be the last version of it.

@GoPostal.

This is long, but I will post it here instead of PM anyways...

Lets kill this mess now before we get into threads being locked and all that
drama. I think we are on the exact same page really on most of this, but
seem to be having some serious communications issues.
And both of us are equally to blame in this case I think.

1st. I will step up and apologize for the comment I made suggesting
you stick to mapping. That was uncalled for. Was very annoyed at the
time I posted that, but it was still a bit harsh.

As you mentioned, we have both helped each other in the past, and I don't
want to make enemy's or have a big squabble about anything like this.

Looking back over it, I was as surprised at the interest in this whole deal
as you were. It caught us both off guard.

Re: The "Issues"

1. Too many versions.

When the final gets done, it will be the 2nd version that I actually posted
for release. (3rd if you want to count the Zombies3 Beta that 3 or 4 people
downloaded.....)

2. Version/File conflicts.

And they should all be able to run simultaneously if you wanted to do that
for some reason. (Of course, I would recommend just using the latest
version of whatever, unless you were just testing things.....)
Hopefully the same as anything else I have done.

And I sure did post too many versions of some previous stuff in the past,
BUT, I tried hard to make sure they did not cause any conflicts
with anything.

You can run them all at the same time if your PC can handle it for the
most part. (Same as most of my previous stuff.)

As you know, I have been running OldSkool & AKCoop servers for years and years
before I ever started looking at any unreal scripting.
I had over 200 SP maps running on them before I turned AFCore loose
with his amazing ECoop mod that he is still working on.

I have over 550 maps on the coop servers now.

I know about mismatches... If anything I post causes mismatches or
conflicts, please let me know. They will be fixed.

Hopefully nothing I have done breaks MH or anything else.

3. Drastic changes from the zombies you had in your very nice
ATypicalMall map.

This next version will only have minor changes.

All along my goal has been to keep them as close to the ones you had in your map, but just
to optimize the mutator code, and make the zombies work independently
like other scriptedpawns. So they could be summoned or used in mutators
such as MonsterSpawn or my Dropper mutator.

Only changes made from Zombies4 so far is an adjustment to the default
sight radius, and a reduction in the max walkingspeed setting they get.

Most of the ideas I was sort of bouncing around as far as tweaking them
so they attack monsters, was already being written, by me, while I was
making those posts. LOL

Have you ever been working on 2 or 3 things at the same time?

In all my tests on the Zombies4, I always had them set as the ExcludeClass
when testing them with the BerserkMonsters mutator I was doing at the
same time.

Guess what. If you don't exclude them from being adjusted, they will
go after monsters. They will even attack each other, at whatever rate
you want them too, rarely or often. (If you run them with the BerserkMonster Mutator....)
And if they do catch a monster, (rarely), they lose that fight quick. But it is funny to watch.
Funny to watch them kill one of their own occasionally also..

So none of that will be added to the TWT_ZombiePawn code in the next version of this.
If you want them to attack monsters, or each other, run them with the BerserkMonsters muator.

Default, they will still ignore monsters, but go after Players and Bots.

I do have 1 question still that never got answered, and I haven't tracked
down the info in several searches.
Re: model import strength.

//#exec MESH LODPARAMS MESH=ZombieNurse STRENGTH=0

The ZombieNurse was the only one I saw that actually had that set in
the source. (Although I have been testing other values with all of them)

Is 0 the default value? I did tests tonight on some of them with the
strength set as 1 or 2, but both actually seem to still be a bit high.
(I could see the performance hit instantly....)

Should I be shooting at a range somewhere between 0 and 1 on this?

So let me know what you think if you read this all.

Hopefully we can get past this misunderstanding, and keep making stuff
for UT.

Also, I do like your new sig.

If we don't land on the same page here soon. Keep it forever.

 

[gopostal]

I'm sorry too Loathe. You really are a rock star programmer and UT would be much worse off if you stopped creation. I'll go to my corner and stfd, like I should have in the first place.

Strength has a value between 0 and 1. Use increments like 0.5 etc. Strength of 1 is full power, zero is least. The higher you go the tougher on the engine because it renders the mesh farther and farther. This does not concern mipmaps, it's just whether or not the mesh itself is rolled off of view due to limits placed on it by the coder. Mipmapping is computed aside from this.

Aside: can I keep the sig though? It's pretty spot on, honestly.

 

[Arnox]

Good stuff. Let's get number 5 out quickly.

 

[Delacroix]

I should apologize too, my point might've been valid but the way I expressed it most certainly isn't. I should've been more civil in here.

 

[gopostal]

As far as I'm concerned Dela, you can always deal with me full on. I take no offense at the way you said anything and I value a spirited debate probably more than most people do in here.

Still, at the end of the day it's good to know that we are all friends. Sorta

 

[MrLoathsome]

Still, at the end of the day it's good to know that we are all friends. Sorta

Allrighty then !!

 

[MrLoathsome]

I'm sorry too Loathe. You really are a rock star programmer and UT would be much worse off if you stopped creation. I'll go to my corner and stfd, like I should have in the first place.

Strength has a value between 0 and 1. Use increments like 0.5 etc. Strength of 1 is full power, zero is least. The higher you go the tougher on the engine because it renders the mesh farther and farther. This does not concern mipmaps, it's just whether or not the mesh itself is rolled off of view due to limits placed on it by the coder. Mipmapping is computed aside from this.

Aside: can I keep the sig though? It's pretty spot on, honestly.

Thanks for the info on the Strength parameter. Did a bit of checking
and found some info regarding that #EXEC statement in a wiki or doc
someplace, but didn't save the link of course...

Currently using this statement:

#exec MESH LODPARAMS MESH=ZombieBalin STRENGTH=0.125 ZDISP=100

I am still not sure if the ZDISP option is valid for UT99, or only subsequent
versions of the engine..... (couldn't tell from the info on the Uscript wiki/doc
page I had found...)
Things seem to be working well with that setting however so I think it does.
Appear to be getting full high detail at very close range, but the STRENGTH setting kicks
in at 100 UU.

Let me know if I am off-base with any of that...

Have made some significant progress with my previously stated goals on
this. And some more considerable performance optimizations on the
pawns themselves.

Been doing some testing with the original TWT_Zombies-Beta mutator also.
(Damn that was some screwy stuff they did with the mouse settings...)

I finally actually exported that source code yesterday and took a look
at it. Wow.
You did fix even more in there than I thought at first.

As a result of some of my changes, I have been able to add back
a few details that were in the original that you removed to make things
work with your ATypicalMall map.

Note: I am definitely NOT trying to undo anything you did there.

But I have things tweaked atm so that they can use that original
dying animation. And have same general gib effect as any monster.
Few other minor details like that.

Still more testing and tweaking to do.

If you have any feedback on the above, or want to see a private, non-public,
pre-release, beta, test version before I release anything, let me know.

 

[MrLoathsome]

Still messing with this thing.

Not going to bore you all with too many details as I have been making
a LOT of changes for Zombies5.

Wanted to mention 2 of the major optimizations made so far.

Last night I decided that only one zombies should actually be shaking
a player at a time. (Just like the original.)

However I sure didn't want to put back that broken ZombieCoordinator
class and all the overhead and code involved with that.

Figured I would take a look at the Epic code for PlayerPawns to see if
there was a way to determine if a player was currently being shaken.

So I came up with this:

if ((PlayerPawn(Enemy) != None) && (PlayerPawn(Enemy).shaketimer <= 0.20))
	{ GotoState('ShakingPlayer'); }

That line is in the MeleeAttack state code.
Seems to be doing exactly what it should.

The Zombies4 and other previous versions all had a crazy amount of
code in them for some sort of system the original authors had came
up with, that appeared to be trying to re-create the core UT headshot
detection code with script....

EACH zombie that spawned had a giant array of 330 vector constants
with it. (Although only 188 of the vectors were being used....)

EVERY time a zombie was getting any damage, a whole bunch of extra
calculations and vector operations were being done.

This has all been ripped out. Headshots are working fine.

I realize that "Joe Player" probably doesn't care about these sort of tech
details in the code.

However in testing on a map with large open spaces with 100-200
zombies, I am now getting about double the frame rates as I was
with the Zombies4 version. "Joe Player" might like that I think.

Should have it done soon. Will probably post it in a new thread as the
title on this thread is stale, and it has gotten a bit sidetracked anyway....

 

[dr.flay]

I meant to mention issues with head-shots, but...

I think number 5 should be "Loathsome-Zombies-V1" or something like that.
It started as TWT_Zombies, became A_Typical_Mall_Zombies, and I think you've done enough to claim a name for your own programming branch.
It will save any future confusion with version issues

I still want to sort the blood out, but it is getting further down the list

 

[Delacroix]

I have my own suggestion.

Nali Healing Fruit has the code that makes it appear as if from the ground instead of out of thin air. I suggest using that for zombies appearing 'as if from the ground'. It will make them look way more natural than when you see them 'spawning'. IDK if it's doable, I'm literally nothing @ UnrealScript, but if it can be done, IMO it should.

 

[MrLoathsome]

I have my own suggestion.

Nali Healing Fruit has the code that makes it appear as if from the ground instead of out of thin air. I suggest using that for zombies appearing 'as if from the ground'. It will make them look way more natural than when you see them 'spawning'. IDK if it's doable, I'm literally nothing @ UnrealScript, but if it can be done, IMO it should.

Interesting idea there. The Nali Fruit uses an animation sequence for
its growing. I have never messed with models or animations. Just have
a vague idea of how to use existing ones via script.

I will take a look and see if I can create such an effect via code and
the existing zombie animations.

Still testing the crap out of this thing. Should have something ready
soon.

**Update. Spent a few hours testing out some various ideas I had regarding Delacroix's suggestion, and came up
with something that will work fairly well I think.
I used the last few frames of the original 2 death animations, and have them spawning either lying on their backs or face down.
Then they play the "ZombieBackFromDead" sound, rise up and start wandering around, or hording up and attacking if an enemy is in view.
I believe it fits well with the mutator and the original authors intentions.

Looked briefly at having them actually come up out of the ground somehow, but the code involved would really kill the speed of the spawning
function. (Which is working a lot faster and better now.)
And with the original animations available, it would look horrible without some new sequence of them clawing up out of the ground or something
like that....

Good timing on the suggestion, as this will be the last one I implement. Just a bit of final testing and tweaks, and then the update
to the ReadMe.txt file and this will be done.

All of the previous ideas were interesting, but I only added the ones that I thought would match the original intent and theme of the
TWT_Zombies.

I have added back a death animation that had been taken out. Seems to be ok now.
Headshots should work as expected. And there will be carcasses and better gibs.
(Sub-classed a number of the default Unreal Monster gibs for them. They will work with the MoreGore mutator.)

Also as GoPostal suggested, I added a sound while they are shaking a player, adjusted the fall damage and have a Strength value
set for the Mesh imports. (Still playing with that number in testing....)

Stay tuned....

 

[dr.flay]

Groovy, it will be interesting to watch the different methods of coming out of the ground of he various zombie mods.
The other mods that try this, seem to just have the zombies sticking half-way out of the ground, til they activate.

This may make this low poly/anim pack, more animated than the others.
Nice

 

[MrLoathsome]

It is now done. Hopefully it will be worth the wait.

Download link in Post #1

 

[dr.flay]

Hurrah!
Let the undead swarm again.
Cheers for your work on this.