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Yurch, RA no longer works. Fix it now.

Discussion in 'General Infiltration Discussion' started by Keganator, Mar 10, 2002.

  1. Keganator

    Keganator White as Snow Moderator

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    Yeah, I know I'm supposed to be gone. But for once I think I'm gonna use these forums to not just pass the time.

    This'll be short. It's a late saturday after some games of infiltration on AFA2, and something was missing.

    Sure, some teamwork was there.

    Sure people were sticking together.

    But it felt wrong. The placebo effect is wearing off.



    Behold: My complaints.

    I could sprint around a corner with my gun hipped and take out people who were working together. Why bother leaning when it's more likely to get me killed? I started doing the 'sprint look' and could take out guys easilly.

    The random damage, while good, seems a bit unbalanced still. I played about an hour and a half of the game, and only once saw the person that killed me. Lucky shots can mean a lot more now.

    I tried being careful and daring, using semi and aiming. Then I tried full auto and hipping or crouching with an ACOG and full auto, and started to move up. Was second by the end of the round.



    I'm not sure what it is. And you know me; I've been probably your biggest supporter and RA pimper outside of the AFA. But it's not working. Spray and pray and sprinting is still viable and usable options.

    Now for my observations.

    Leaning: As long as sprinting around a corner is more effective than leaning, it'll be done. If leaning was faster, I might consider using it again. Until then, **** it.

    Scoped weapons on auto/burst: you're getting there with the scope wobble, but it still seems a bit unrealistic that I can unload my entire clip at full auto on my SIG at an enemy. As it stands, 1 clip, one guarenteed kill with an ACOG. Maybe 2 if you're extra careful.

    Strafing: Still too fast...I can strafe faster by just strafing than by strafing and moving forward/backward...I would think these should be the same. And at very least, the stamina use for doing it might want to be looked at...maybe double stamina drain if strafing due to the extra effort you have to put in.



    Man, I don't have the solutions. But the behavior I was experiencing on AFA2 just...disturbed me. I don't know what it was. I don't know if it was even really anything. But It irked me enough to leave, and that's not a good sign.
     
  2. NTKB

    NTKB Banned

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    Something I did notice that really needs to be fixed are the strafe whores. They strafe back and forth really fast in tight and semi tight strafes. Get a broomstick in your house and try walking back and forth really fast sideways like if you were the character... Its impossible. You have to literally hop back and forth to change directions while walking sideways as fast as the guys in the game do it. There should be some momentum, some sort of pause before changing directions when strafing.

    As for leaning I must disagree with your opinion for one reason. When you run around a corner in real life and the enemy is close its not that hard to hip or point shoot them within 10 feet or so. Anything beyond taht though should require aiming. But definately no shooting while sprinting. That is insane. I use leaning all the time and it serves me well and in my personal experience especially against rushers. But thats just IMO.
     
  3. Dracil

    Dracil First Poster of new INF forums

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    So random damage = bad.

    Fast direction change while strafing = bad.

    Change the two, and things'll be good again? 2nd one more easily changed with greater momentum or perhaps, just add a negative value to movement speed while strafing? Going backwards slower, strafing while going backwards even slower than just doing one or the other? 1st one just needs more tweaking?
     
  4. TheNut

    TheNut blah

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    Ok, ummm Yurch's mission isn't to eliminate run and gun, it's to make it real. Running and Gunning is a viable tactic, it's just not easy to do IRL. I try and run and gun in AFA2 I get gunned down. Keg you can not totally eliminate a tactic. Period. Yurch, I think, is just trying to make it more REALISTIC.
     
  5. OpFor

    OpFor Feeling suicide, thats O.K.

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    This may have no effect on the problem, but I always believed that people do that because walk gives them NO advantage. I think a shuffle should be added in, a very accurate, (yet slower than walk) straff. I think the problem is kinda like "why be a messiah when you can be a god?" which we all know of.
     
  6. bastardb

    bastardb New Member

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    naw keg your just overcome with frusteration happens to all of us

    the straffing is a bit... quick ya...
    and i dont really lean myself to much.. but its not as easy as you say to rush hip the weapon... at close distances it works fine... but i dont see a problem with it working fine close distance.. thats why you have a guy covering your advance as wel ass your behind

    i duno if anyone else does it... but i gave up trying to direct people what would be best to do... i just follow someone and either cover there advance... cover there back... cover someplace they may be overlooking.. whatever i need to do to protect him

    i try to anticipate what would be the ebst strategy to kill him in his current position... in which case a rush attempt often comes to my mind.. so i hold back a bit making sure im ready to kill anything that pops up
     
  7. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    Welcome to my hell, keg.
    The one where everybody breaks your shit and you have to fix it, every time.
    Leaning is still bugged up the ass. Half the people don't because it gets them cussed at.
    Scopes are all stupid easy to use. A robar is a goddamn quake3 raildriver. Don't even try to tell me otherwise, I used it for a good 2 hours yesterday, and doubled my average killcount.
    You make people inaccurate, then strafing and spraying and run'n'gun become the norm. People will be doing the ****in' electric slide across EP to avoid being shot.
    You make them more accurate, and people cry about 3 round burst headshots across island. Which, I might add, is an equal amount of bull****, and its not realistic in the least.
    The same applies to if you make them live longer. If they die fast, theres more spraying. If it takes more, theres more moving around.
    Hell, I could just cut the movement speeds in half and take out running. You know as well as I do that it is just a cop-out. Fuck, I may as well do it anyway, seeing how theres not much else. Hipshooting is innaccurate as ****, and its dependant on the velocity you are moving at. The gun kicks so much while running it can actually turn players. You are saying its working, that its viable? Hipshooting? Who the hell hipshoots in real life, other than SAW gunners?
    Even if I made sprint and even jog unable to fire, theres still nothing stoping the player from stopping for a second and firing accurate shots.
    You have to state the maps you were playing on. I can't make Siberia play like EP. Those CQB maps are going to be meat grinders, you can't do much about it.
    But even then, there are no realisitc defensive positions in most of the maps, and any ones that do exist can be cleaned out by Jonny-wanna-be-sniper in less than .9 seconds.
    Whats so unrealistic about shooting a full clip at a guy? Even with an ACOG, thats not that unrealistic at all. I carry 3 AK clips. I go entire rounds without ever going through the first one, killing as many as 7 with it. Does this mean I should use drums at full auto? I miss more, make more noise, and will spend more time reloading. All things I hate to do.
    Stanima drain stops nothing in short battles. Hes low on stainma, you are dead.
    And leaning faster? WTF? if you need to lean faster, hes already on top of you.
    Yeah, you got me pissed now. No hard feelings keg, I'm just venting myself. But the running and walking is already slightly slowed, and prone was made a bit faster. Perhaps not enough. I was rather pleased with it when I played it earlier on saturday. Now I'm going to have to go and **** with it. **** the current randomdamage, all you people do is bitch about it anyway. Give me some better suggestions than what shouldn't happen, I already know that part. I tweaked the **** out of shooting yesterday, but noone even seemed to notice.
    I'm going to go mess with speeds and accelerations now. Just don't whine to me when shooting is super easy, give me something to balance it out. I run out of ideas too.
    (Edit: I'm glad I copy and paste my posts, I would have lost this whole ****ing thing)
     
  8. UTProphet

    UTProphet Trial By Fire

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    Keg come to practice this Saturday, and I'll show you I can easily take you out while you are running and gunning :D
     
  9. Harry_C

    Harry_C Getting old ... and drunk

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    True I didn't noticed that.
    But could someone explain me what is that random damage thing ???
     
  10. DallasStarsRule

    DallasStarsRule making personal insults since 1999

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    Keg I have to disagree with your leaning usage.

    In real life, if the guy is around the corner, you will not lean out and shoot him. He will see your gun before you see him, and he will shoot you dead. Leaning is meant for more of a camping situation, where you want to minimize the hit area of your body.


    When you think a person is around the corner, you will either camp and lean, or run out real fast, shoot a few bursts, and get back under cover. You will not lean into them.

    I havent played on AFA2 a lot recently, so I wouldnt know about the increase in rushing or whatever you want to call it.


    WHAHAHA is the RA community imploding? :D
     
  11. bastardb

    bastardb New Member

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    random damage was a possiblity of up to 175% to only 25% damage i think?


    yurch what you have now is 100000000 times better then 286 so dont think its crap or something

    keg that complaining was a bit harsh, the game sure aint perfect yet you think yurch should be able to make it perfect? its pretty difficult i can see that, you shoold be able to as well
     
  12. DallasStarsRule

    DallasStarsRule making personal insults since 1999

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    btw about random damage.

    Its a neat concept...but ONLY if it takes each gun and bullet specifications into the equation. Otherwise I'd rather take the set damage.

    It would suck if everything was more or less equally random. For one thing, it would eliminate the need to have more than 3 loadouts probably.
     
  13. R-Force

    R-Force (IF)

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    You want new ideas Yurch?

    I think it could be a good thing if NO SHOOTING AT ALL while moving was the norm. Bullets have no inertia/momentum in inf, they are not affected by movement (besides the artificial accuracy penality). I think we would see a lot more teamplay if peoples could not return fire while moving : one guy would stop to shoot while the others would move, and a sniper forced to move would become less of a treat for his enemies...

    You could also make it so that using the "hold breath" increase the lethality of the shots (less random, more damaging), while taking pot shots would be less likely to score a clean kill (this simulate that a well aimed shot is more likely to cripple than a loose one, even if the actual damage remain the same, as the damage is done at a critical spot). Maybe you could make it so that long range shots are less likely to kill (bullet loose damage potential over range), this could force players wanting to snipe to take a good aim to hit where it kill (torso and especially head)...

    Some more random effects for getting hit could also help...


    There might be other ways to do it, but this one is the easiest to implement. This might not be the most realistic approach, but closer to what happen in real life.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2002
  14. peachz

    peachz BANNED

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    I noticed something different about the guns also...

    I'm happy with it, seems like I'm the only one. :hmm:
     
  15. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    Re: You want new ideas Yurch?

    Yeah, you would see more teamplay, but the game would suck. No moving while shooting is not even remotely a "reasonable restriction". You have to draw the line somewhere.
    Btw, intertia for bullets at inf-type-ranges is completly neglideable for anything short of a drive by shooting. Players do not move that fast, and the "movement inaccuracies" cause far more misses than bullet inertia ever could.
     
  16. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    It does, sorta.
     
  17. R-Force

    R-Force (IF)

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    "Yeah, you would see more teamplay, but the game would suck. No moving while shooting is not even remotely a "reasonable restriction". You have to draw the line somewhere.
    Btw, intertia for bullets at inf-type-ranges is completly neglideable for anything short of a drive by shooting. Players do not move that fast, and the "movement inaccuracies" cause far more misses than bullet inertia ever could."

    You don't understand what i mean by inertia, i don't talk about bullet drop. I mean a bullet is affected by the movement of who is shooting. Raise your gun while you shoot and the bullet will go a bit higher than the barrel of the gun would dictate (at the moment you have pressed the trigger). Shoot while moving sideway and the bullet will also go sideway (at the same speed, minus air friction). If you move backward while firing, the bullet will hit at a slightly lower pace than if you were moving toward the target (i know, it would be negligible).

    All this to say that if an immobile shooter need to lead a moving target, a moving shooter have to lead an immobile target.

    It's a law of physics, i just don't know how to explain it...
     
  18. ecale3

    ecale3 Sniper - May be harmful to your health.

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    Yurch don't get pissed, what you made is great. And i did notice some of the changes, like the sidewards kick the guns have now.

    And i don't know what you guys are talking about, AFA's teamwork is great, to the point where people will guard me while i snipe, allowing me to take out entire teams before they become really dangerous to my team.
     
  19. St0rmcaller

    St0rmcaller [AFA]'s unoffical godfather

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    *hands yurch a box of croutons*

    There ya go buddy. Relax some will ya? Take a step back from RA and go beat off or something. You need a break, man.
     
  20. Sidewinder

    Sidewinder New Member

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    someone come up with a cure for the common cold or whatever it is i have, because ive used a box of kleenex is 3 hours. i feel like ****
     

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