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Yes or No.

Discussion in 'General Infiltration Discussion' started by TheSniper, Jun 14, 2001.

?

Is the new TK system any good?

  1. Yes, I think it will be good for gameplay.

    34 vote(s)
    57.6%
  2. No, I dont want to lose my score becasue of a TK

    16 vote(s)
    27.1%
  3. I really dont care I dont TK anyhow.

    9 vote(s)
    15.3%
  1. Murphy

    Murphy Have beer, will travel.

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    Well, there were several other scoring systems offered up late in that thread, and as a result a "I like it, we're saved!" vs "I dislike it because I am a pointmonger first and foremost!" slanted poll isn't fair to a great many people inbetween those extremes.

    For the record, I voted "Yes" in your poll, as I think it will be more helpful than detrimental. However, if it chases a large portion or majority of INF's playerbase away, and their servers with it, then it has done much more harm than good. I just hope people are willing to try it and see if it is really all that bad.
     
  2. RogueLeader

    RogueLeader Tama-chan says, "aurf aurf aurf!"

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    It isn't that they are pointfreaks, its that they team kill a lot because they think its a frag-all-that-moves deathmatch, and they don't want to be punished for killing their teammates.
     
  3. Camel_Toe(l)

    Camel_Toe(l) Form Fitting

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    You are sooo right Rogue, it's almost like you've played me before.

    Do I make stupid assumptions about your ability, all I know is that you are a liar and a egotistical fool. I hope you're not like this in real life. hmmm, wait a minute these forums and this game is your real life. FF!
     
  4. The_Fur

    The_Fur Back in black

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    Cameltoe could you please shut up? You claim that we are interested in nothing but personal attacks against you (boo ****ing hoo) and look what you tyourself are doing?

    Oh and wizzbiz i do play on line occasionaly but not a lot since A) I have very little time every day B) the way inf is played right now is not too much fun for me. Don't talk about stuff you know crap about.
     
  5. Camel_Toe(l)

    Camel_Toe(l) Form Fitting

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    I will not shut up, especially now because you asked me too. A couple of you people think you friggen own the forums because you've posted here several thousand times.

    Thank god you don't have much time to play and thank god you don't like the current scoring system. If the game ever bows to your great will and adapts all of your suggestions, you RL, and two or three others will have a great time fraggin bots. Afterwards you and the others on the same team can say "yea we all have a score of 4, we are all the same, we all rule the small world of inf." Then a trekkie convention will come up and you'll don your costumes and tell all your "friends" how cool you were in the game.
     
  6. DarkBls

    DarkBls Inf Ex-admin

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    Calm down guys.
    I think you forgot we are all here for the same thing..
     
  7. The_Fur

    The_Fur Back in black

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    aparently were not... some of us are here for a realistic team game... certain other "people" are here for a fragfest with nice models.
     
  8. DarkBls

    DarkBls Inf Ex-admin

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    Camel calm down too.
    Of course having a great post doesn't mean you "OWN" this baord. None Own it except those fuc<b></b>king GameSpy. Hmm sorry.

    But everone must keep in mind the goal of this mod/game/simulator whatever people like to call it. It is REALISM.
    I know of course such feeling is relative to people.
     
  9. Tommy Atkins

    Tommy Atkins Older, but no wiser

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    Hurrah!

    FIght! Fight! Fight! Fight!

    Get it over quickly kids, before Teacher comes to break it up :rolleyes:
     
  10. Ham Tyler

    Ham Tyler wukka wukka wukka

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    TK and points

    The only time I teamkill now are
    1) Someone walks into my line of fire - it happens (I've had it done to me). Should players be penalised for this? I think not

    2) Its dark, I'm really into the game and someone runs around a corner - before I know what I'm doing, I jump a foot in the air in RL and empty 10 rounds into them.... That is my fault, and if you were to penalise me for that, fair enough.

    3) -100 seems a bit steep though. ;)

    4) Friendlies caught in a crossfire - where is the blame here? Do we say you shouldn't shoot if your teamates are anywhere near where you are firing. Do we say you mustn't enter an area where combat may take place (yeah, right)

    Or do we agree that everything outside of someone blatantly killing their own team is a huuuge grey area and won't be resolved by 'shouting' at each other.

    5) My connection is rubbish (cos its from BT) so I rarely get the chance to find out :(

    Nice to hear you again Tommy

    Laters y'all
    Ham
     
  11. Camel_Toe(l)

    Camel_Toe(l) Form Fitting

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    I'm not in the mood to fight today...
    unless I'm really provoked ;)
     
  12. MoNDoGuY

    MoNDoGuY Groin grabbingly good!

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    Thems fighting words boy!

    I challenge you to a duel of tiddly winks! *Glove slap*
     
  13. GNAT

    GNAT ...

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    Can this guy read? -

    I will stop myself from spewing forth the deserved flame and say go read the other thread in its entirety before you make such vague statements. shheeessh
     
  14. HanD_of_DarKNesS

    HanD_of_DarKNesS Evil Bastard

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    Guys, as lets all calm down, take a deep breath, and envision calm blue oceans ;) . There's no need for a flamefest here. Let's everyone keep their cool.

    ----------

    I'm one of the players who'll probably suffer the most from this system (at least until I better hone my skills). I have an aweful tendancy to let myself get too caught up in the tension of the game, and have been known on several more than a few occasions to be a bit too quick on the trigger. I'm probably one of the worst players in the game for accidental team kills.

    However, I think this system is completely fair. It makes sense. I never really care about my score, but when a better system is implemented for scoring a game like this, it'll teach stupid idiots like me to be more careful.
     
  15. LordKhaine

    LordKhaine I sing the body electric...

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    I think I'd prefer it to be -100 over reseting to 0 really *shrug*

    -100 is just a penality after all, while reseting makes the scores effectively useless.
     
  16. HanD_of_DarKNesS

    HanD_of_DarKNesS Evil Bastard

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    I think that's kindof the point. If they make it -100, people can easily calculate their score.

    score of -152 = 48 points and 2 TKs (most likely)

    Whereas, if it simply resets the score to zero, those players who TK (for whatever reason) are effectively unable to judge their skill.

    As far as a sim like INF goes: if you kill a teammate, it doesn't matter how many kills you got because YOU KILLED A TEAMMATE:p
     
  17. CAVERNA2K

    CAVERNA2K Look, a fliing something!!!!!

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    I have the right to say my opinion!!!

    Well, I voted yes, ´cause it´s a simply and cheap way to ID these TKs f.uckers or just Tks, if accidental. I really don´t look for score, points... Just some fun, laughts, hormones... AND GORE!!! - ehhehhehe...

    See, this is a simply way to avoid TK, but those who TK for fun will not get angry with their points zeroed. They had their "fun": fragged a team member... "Cool, dud"... But us, war wanters, have not.

    The other "possible" solution, the "forgive button", COULD be implemented IF EVERYONE WAS HONEST. But there are always stupid ppl who will vengeange their small dicks in nice ppl. These are TKs too. About that "time-banishing", too... Just ´cause I head shotted a mofo who was runnin´across my sights while I was shooting a enemy, now I´m the stupid one...

    See, there are ways and ways to make it happen, but all of them will need the cooperation of the human factor. Ppl who fight for points and TK will have a bad day, and IMO the TK will not mind about their points: TK are like a flu: anoying. My mother always sayz that we should not wish bad stuff to ppl , but I WANT ALL MOFO TK TO DIE FROM AIDS AND PROSTATA CANCER, DIAGNOSTIKED!!! THIS IS THE PUNISHMENT TO BE SUCH A BITCH!!!


    if this is too rought, just delete it. Genebra sayz I have the right to express myself my way.

    My R$ 0.05 cents. US$ 0.02 equiv.
     
  18. Rostam

    Rostam PSN: Rostam_

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    Once an enemy was between me and a frienly, the F was afraid to schoot cuz he would hit me, I thougth twice, and shot the legs of the enemy, there was NO WAY i could hit my F! All you need to do is stop jank'n, and start thinking before you pull da trigger!

    And my thought about a TK, the emberacement of a TK is huge enough for me! and since the camos are VERY look-alike in most levels, is it fair to reset ur score cuz you dont wanna die? I said before, dont jank, think then pull... but even I do something I didnt think about.. it's called a reaction and it killed 1 friendly!! but it also safed my ass atleast 10 times (im talking daily...)

    My thought: TK= -3, self kill = -1
     
  19. owlofdoom

    owlofdoom New Member

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    hmmm
    i dont know
    i do know that sometimes you have to take a kabar to a bot on your team to get him to move
    /me has no idea what hes talking about and falls asleep
     
  20. sublime

    sublime Cynic

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    my thoughts

    Here are my thoughts on the matter. This is also on page 10 of the very long TK thread, but I doubt everyone wades through that. I've added an additional note at the bottom as well.

    The way I see it there are two basic factions at war here. This is fairly obvious and I wouldn't normally feel the need to state the obvious except for one small thing: the two are so diametrically opposed that there is no chance that either will agree with the other. You might as well be arguing religion.

    That said, I'll take a shot at it anyway. I've seen good arguments on both sides. Should TK'ers be punished? Yes. Is there one kind of TK'er? No. There are those who do it for fun. There are those who do it because they are new. There are those who do it purely on accident. There are those who do it because they have an internet connection that is the equivalent of sending messages via carrier pidgeon. There are those who do it because they really just don't care if they kill friends or enemies, as long as they are killing. There are those who do it out of carelessness. Should the punishment be the same for all of these? The crime is the same, so some will cry, "Yes!" I'm sure. But what of intent? Let's look at that more closely, shall we?

    The group that comes to my mind first is the intentional TK'ers who are doing it because they just think it's fun to ruin everyone else's fun. These should be dealt with swiftly and harshly. In my opinion, I think that these people should be handled by the other players via the voting system. A vote by the majority of the players should be able to ban these people from the server for 24 hours. In those rare cases where the people playing aren't aware of the voting system, an admin specified limit of TK's should be an option. If a player kills x number of team mates, they are automatically banned for 24 hours. An option to assist in letting players know (other than the outraged cries of the victims, of course) could, and perhaps should, be a separate listing for team kills. This would allow for easy identification and easier grouping into categories.

    The second group that I think of are the newbies. Some guy hears about the game from a friend and decides to try it out. He joins a server. The camos are arctic and urban on Chasm. He sees and enemy, shoots him, and kills him. He's fired up now, thinking this is the greatest thing since cereals loaded with sugar. He sees another enemy and kills them. He's really having fun now and even thinks about calling in sick to work tomorrow just to play more. He shoots another guy. That guy happens to be a team mate. He's scolded by the person he shot, maybe gently, maybe harshly. He's more careful next time and realizes that the subtle nuances of the game make it even better than he originally thought. A few months later a newbie TK's him. He admonishes the newbie and the cycle continues. Alternate story: He TK's, sees his score set to 0. Well, the hell with that. Since it's already 0, might as well kill some more team mates. Or maybe he'll just quit. I realize that this is somewhat specious reasoning, but I've seen it happen. I just think there are better options. More on this later.

    Then we have the laggers, the ones who are lazy, and the random accident (caused as much by team mate stupidity as your own). What to do with these people? Again, a separate column for team kills would be a very good thing to start with. Some people may not even realize how often they happen to be shooting and killing their own. A vivid visual reminder would do nothing but help them see it. Perhaps something as simple as that would lead to a change in their ways, making them more cautious. The laggers are easy enough to spot with their pings of 666. And yes, people, this is often a valid reason, although not so much with a constantly high ping as with the lag spikes associated with packet loss. And yes, other people, it's often brandished as an excuse for not being very good. All I'm saying is that it's legit; It happens. These people probably won't TK very often as the lag spikes that tend to cause this thing don't always occur in the heat of battle or cause harm to team mates when they do. The separate column for TK's, combined with the displayed ping should allow other players on the server to determine that this is the cause of the occasional TK by these people. And on the same note, it should also allow them to see who is using it for an excuse to suck. The random accidents are going to happen. They are a fact of life and of gaming (two very different things, for those who have forgotten). Should these people be punished? Yes. Should it be as severe as for those who TK on purpose? I don't think so.

    So, in summary, I propose something along these lines (not all of these are my own ideas, they are culled from other posts as well. Many thanks to those who are the originators.):

    <ul>
    <li>A separate column for Team Kills to make things easier for those on the server to see.
    <li>An easy, and well publicized, voting system for getting rid of intentional team killers.
    <li>Subtract a point for the first team kill. Subtract two points for the second. Subtract four points for the third, and so on for the entire round. Repeated lazyness would be punished with the appropriate harshness, while the occasional accident or lag spike would be treated mildly. It also provides a reasonable learning curve for the newbies.
    <li>Respect. If you TK someone on accident, apologize. It's the decent thing to do. If you get TK'd by a person once (especially if they don't apologize), admonish them gently. If they do it again, yell at them. If they do it again, start a vote. But be nice. Newbies really suck sometimes. Some get better though and are worthy members of this community. Don't run them off just yet.
    </ul>
    Again, these are just my opinions and a few suggestions. I doubt my words will change the views on either side, but I felt the same need to express them as all of you did. Those of you who took the time to read this whole diatribe, thank you.

    Additional note: Those of you who say that score doesn't matter are speaking only for yourselves, which could be viewed as selfish. If score doesn't matter to you, then don't look at it. For a great number of people this game and any other game are a test of personal skills. Yes, team skills come into play, but many people judge how well they do as a means to how much they help their team. Since suppresive fire isn't really an option right now and the only method of winning is to kill the other team, score is the only way to judge how well you are doing and how much you are contributing. People are competitive by nature and will want to get better at something. To do that, goals are often used. Higher scores are a legitimate goal. Yes, it may tend to breed the Rambo mentality, but it also pushes people to hone their individual skills, making teams better. When EAS comes along, this will all change of course, but for TDM, I see no other alternatives. I do openly welcome any well thought-out suggestions and alternatives.
     

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