xmp --> ut2k4 modular project breakdown

[Mantik]

What's so funny about it? You play the same gametype as it is already for how many years? FPS. What's wrong with keeping a similar style within that genre? People buy new games all the time to keep up with their DM gameplay that they like. Doing it for XMP seems funny for some reason? Calling another game XMP is not correct anyways, XMP is expanded multiplayer. You can name the mods whatever you want, just the fact that they play virtually identical to the way XMP played does not make them XMP ripoffs. If there were copyright infringement issues based on similarities of gameplay, every single game since Wolfenstein and probably even before W3D (I don't feel like digging that far back in my archives) would have been illegal

Make it play like XMP but keep XMP's name out of it and you have no problem whatsoever. I also seem to recall a certain someone posting about playing yee olde Quake2 again for a blast from the past. Said person's name starts with "Mo" and ends in "Pap" and does not have the letters "stafa" mixed in the jumble! Having an XMP gameplay mod for a future game is not so far off base, history repeats itself. There will be mods for gameplay similar if not exactly how XMP is played, regardless of whatever the people call it and what game they tack it on to.

 

[Dragon_Myr]

You know what? Next time I think about working on a mod, I'm not going to tell anyone. WTF is this, Congress? Jeeze, I'll just keep things to myself and let the community know days after release.

-Myr

 

[Mopap]

I did say it was funny, I didn't say it was wrong. Bring on the Quake IV XMP. The funny part is me repeatedly paying money to play the same game. Of course, if there are improvements, then it's not quite the same. Yeah, that.

 

[Mantik]

I did say it was funny, I didn't say it was wrong. Bring on the Quake IV XMP. The funny part is me repeatedly paying money to play the same game. Of course, if there are improvements, then it's not quite the same. Yeah, that.

Well see therein lies your fault. Only suckers pay for games! I mean.. uh.. RIAA 4 lyfe. Mopap, *takes off frilly white glove and slaps you in the face* I challenge you to a duel my good sir.

 

[Mopap]

I challenge you to a duel my good sir.

I accept. I'll get back to you on my choice of weapons.

 

[Dead_Metal]

By porting over to UT2k4, they are not entirely expanding it, they seem to be "salvaging" it. I do no believe in saviors. I believe in followers. One person following a path to a destination til there is no destination. I will not give up on that destination. That destination is the expansion and furthering of the XMP cause. - Not to port it. When the Master Server went down, where were you? Along the other XMP ppl who made sense out of it and sent emails to Atari? You didn't break off and say XMP IS DEAD!!! and go right to its relative game - UT2k4. I admit that the first time the MS was down - I played ut2k4 madly. But that is only because I didn't have the luxury of having the servers in my favorites as I now do. What happened when a call to arms occured and everyone started mapping and such. I admit that I provoked the idea of the cXp but never thought I'd lead it. I was pointed at the reigns and nominated by my fellow community - I stood up to the challenge. I back it - I spend money on this. UT2k4 I'm sure is good, I'm kinda skeptical on it. It has a good user base I'm sure. And the engine/net w/e is good to I hear. But this does not change the fact that if the mod is made then they are not helping XMP by shifting ppl over to THIS XMP, but onto a ut2k4xmp mock up that slaps someone like myself in the face. This is not just because I payed for unreal 2 ( Though I enjoyed playing it) - this is about respect for a game that has captured my attention so greatly that I play it as I did UT. A person who supports XMP should actually SUPPORT it, not bury it and make a mod out of it. This may seem pretty fanatical and devout but what I say is the truth about my admiration of this game. I do not eat, sleep, and breathe this. I play it as it should be. This game was built by Legend, and will be carried on by the gamer that plays it to the end. I do not preach of any end because I do not see it, mind you I am not blind, but I hold perserverance to a high and I like most others in this sensible community have hope. Many though do not just sit back and play, some out there make the game better, the alienpod map pack for instance, and the CBP, these are just a few projects that have been done by the community. And I applaud them every step of the way (though not openly). I have spoken my piece for now.

 

[BooGiTyBoY]

I think some of you are missing valid points...

I'm gonna say a few things then I refuse to bump this thread anymore as it's gone from a few people who want to support XMP and have this great idea to mod it and it's turned into nothing but an XMP vs. *insert g3y game here* war.

Seems like everyone in here is basing their opinions on what they like and know and not looking at it from any other perspective...

To keep saying the UT2k4 player base wouldn't go for a "game like this" is just ignorant...

I for one am a huge fan of the run' and gun' style fps game. BUT I'm also a fan of the slow tactical games too... and I'm not the only one. Other wise how could you explain the popularity of TFC style mods for Quake3 and Unreal Tournament. Those mods were huge. And how many "class-based" mods were pumped out non-stop for UT. Want me to make a list.. there's a lot.

You want the community to expand.. how many of you have dropped by a similar game's forums and dropped some info trying to get other people interested? I bet none of ya have... if I'm wrong... WOOT for you!

Another thing you're missing out on is the fact that NOT A WHOLE HELL OF A LOT OF PEOPLE BOUGHT UNREAL 2!!! C'mon, it's pretty and all that but it's really NOT that great of a game (sorry legend). It was fun to play but I finished it in what.... 2 days? And that wasnt even playing it straight through. That kind of game doesn't deserve the shell out price. When I finally did buy it it's only because I found it for $14.99 and saw some of the XMP stuff here at BU and figured okay.. now it may be worth it. How many games have you also seen be released for $40-50 and then within a VERY short amount of time the price drops drastically and you say to yourself... "man.. that game must be teh p00p." Specially when there was the UT2k3 release around the same time.

Just some views from "the other side."

Go ahead and reply, but I'm not looking in this thread anymore.

 

[PF Prophet]

dead_metal i gotta agree with you

my thoughts on a mod for tribes:v would be that we could bring the goodness of xmp play to a VERY well asstablished group of players who will have a far less trobblesome time getting into it becouse for one xmp and tribes are like cosins alot alike but some notable difs


im all for continuming xmp but it would be nice to get atari to let the CXP team and some ex LE people to work on the code to lessen the cpu usage and make it work better on amd cpu's

i understand why it was primarly made for intel becouse xbox is p3 but they lost a whole sector of the gaming community to not also supporting amd properly

 

[TherMight]

Takwu:
I don't actually see any problem. And I see us very much on the same page as far as the points you bring up
You make reference to a serious problem. As far as I can tell from your post that problem is that I refer to the XMP community as a whole? I consider myself a part of that community and of the UT24K community and of the community of people who want to see the game survive. Now to what you consider a problem. I refer to the XMP Community because that is how many outspoken 'individuals' posting here and elsewhere refer to themselves. I am well aware that a community is made up of individuals. In fact I treasure the differences of opinion as long as they are rationally stated and bring new thoughts to the discussion.

I am totally behind Community Bonus Pack. I love it. To me it's part of the game even though I haven't seen the various changes change the game in a huge way, even the artifact powers. The maps extend the life of XMP for all of us. CxP I just learned about. I made my point about it. Some features may or may not work out in balance, some will totally love it. Sounds great. No argument here.
You also take issue with the fact that I stress the importance of prserving the XMP gameplay in a hypothetical UT24K XMP mod.

When I speak of preserving the game play I do that because consistent balanced play in a new incarnation, even much slower play in UT24K whether it attracts flocks o fpeople or not, is what makes this XMP mod what it is. If a team were to change it drastically they may have less chance of duplicating the same winning formula. That's all. Sure it may have its extra mutators and expansions like any other successful mod/gametype. Like cXp for XMP might do.

I think side analogies are probably a mistake here. Pick up an unrelated concept and connect it to your own and its like dream interpretation. Everyone sees it different or takes issue with the aptness the analogy made and I think it just takes us further off track from the issues at hand.

TherMight

 

[TherMight]

IndianPsycho: "Just hold your hourses for now, people."
I can only interpret this two ways.
1) perhaps you're trying to duplicate the commentary that Dead_Metal has provided repeatedly begging us to just stop talking about this.
2) You are hinting that you have something going of your own towards the effort of making XMP live on one day in a future platform.

Either way I can't think of how it adds to the discussion or gives us any reason for pause. If it's a protest then you have not provided any new or convincing argument of why the discussion should grind to a halt all of a sudden. if it's because you're working on something else, then I don't see a reason to keep that secret except that perhaps you are bound to secrecy by contract or because you dont' want someone else to do it first. But we don't know... So the only thing we can do is move on with exploring the ideas, right?

TherMight

 

[TherMight]

Dead_Metal: I acually did notice some of what cXp plans, that's why I addressed part of it directly (vehicles). And I'm not sure what point you are making. I'm behind playing XMP as is and giving others the option to do so on a new platform eventually. I'm also behind new ways to love XMP with extra features, but I'll only play them if they preserve good balanced game play, and was pointing out irony with respect to that in some of the discussions.

If it's not about 'ph34r' then what is it about? Why is it so utterly horribly unnacceptable to hear someone discuss the idea of duplicating XMP gameplay in a new generation of engine, gameplay, and community scope? Why do you feel the need to shut us up on multiple occasions?

Finally you suggest I am afraid that UT2k4 won't happen and suggest I leave and play there. Well now we are getting somewhere. I'm not sure if fear is the appropriate word to use as a label but I am concerned that eventually a GREAT gametype in XMP will not be available to me. I love XMP like you do. I play it. I also play UT2k4 because I see other game types I enjoy there and there are often not enough games of XMP to play. Or I get bored and need something else. I respectfully decline your offer that I never play XMP again because ... well face it the whole point of this discussion is about keeping it around so we can play it right? I will play both, but you really have no place in telling me which one I should play nor what I should or shouldn't discuss.

TherMight

 

[TherMight]

Saito: I understand and appreciate that Tribes is a closer type of gameplay. However I see no data that can back up the claim of you or anyone that the UT2k4 community is either A) All alike in wanting a frag-fest (remember we established they are all 'individuals' just like XMP COmmunity is eh?) B) That they do not want new types of gameplay. Take the scope of gametypes available (most ever for FPS as we know). Yes they are all tweaked towards fast action and weapons. They are certainly not as team oriented as we'd like by far. Even Bombing run that requires passing the ball and keeping together on the front line as a sports team. Even Onslaught with needing a team to coordinate multiple attacks and defends across the map. XMP is just better team play. But we can't say UT2k4 playing 'individuals' will unite in a decision to cast aside a mod of XMP. Some will, some won't. The point is its a numbers game. ANd many WILL see what we see in that (hypothetical) mod of XMP if it came into being and was one of their choices. If you put nothing into it and it failed then no skin off your back. If someone else put effort into it and it failed. Same. if it's there and it became a success... and XMP eventually died. Wow. Hey look it's an option. And many other gamers would likely be there before you enjoying it.

TherMight

 

[Saito]

there is nothing more I can say.

2k4 will not hold xmp....


tribes may be the new class game....


you pick... either way its hit the end.

I fully endorse XMP trying to mod into 2k4 and stealing players... and I think it will work. I mean common, everying frag loving player wants to swap. Either way go do it... you see to think it will fix it.

Honestly I found ONS more challenging than xmp ever was, and I still do.... but wait I am wrong, as are all the othe players that quit xmp form a game they though more advanced.


SO I ask you this... do you mod prove me wrong. Take your gamble on xmp and try to port it over... lets see what hapens.

MY bet you wasted your time.

Make XMP mods that help xmp, hell I may go back in by my name and try.


As for trying to salvage the game, you already ran it into the ground, you can't piggy back on 2k4 anymore... so just make xmp be teh best xmp can be.

 

[TherMight]

By porting over to UT2k4, they are not entirely expanding it, they seem to be "salvaging" it. I do no believe in saviors. I believe in followers. One person following a path to a destination til there is no destination. I will not give up on that destination. That destination is the expansion and furthering of the XMP cause. - Not to port it.

This sounds like a great path for you. I don't see anyone taking issue with it. I think many wish you best of luck on your destination.

Which brings up two points. First, nobody is asking you to leave your project and support someone elses project to do something different. Second, it really doesn't matter what you want to call the project, but labels that are less than flattering is sort of like name calling. They are just names that don't mean anything nor contribute new valuable perspectives.

When the Master Server went down, where were you? Along the other XMP ppl who made sense out of it and sent emails to Atari? You didn't break off and say XMP IS DEAD!!! and go right to its relative game - UT2k4. I admit that the first time the MS was down - I played ut2k4 madly. But that is only because I didn't have the luxury of having the servers in my favorites as I now do.

Same here. It's really irrelevant to this discussion how people reacted except that it seems to be a 'test' of who loves XMP 'the original' enough to join your side of the argument.

Personally, I wrote letters to Atari, played UT2k4 demo until I got bored of it and did some other constructive things wishing I could play XMP.
Then I dug deeper, found favorites, passworded servers and resumed playing.
Finally the master servers came up and I saw very little new servers appear and was sad. Eventually I couldn't find enough games considently that were decent ping and I bought UT2k4 to supplement my love for Unreal based team games.

[More about DM's dedication to XMP deleted...]
...but onto a ut2k4xmp mock up that slaps someone like myself in the face. ... A person who supports XMP should actually SUPPORT it, not bury it and make a mod out of it.
...I do not preach of any end because I do not see it, mind you I am not blind, but I hold perserverance to a high and I like most others in this sensible community have hope.
[Deleted praise of people who improve XMP...]

Ok. I think we can understand you feel emotional about the prospect of a mod taking your community/individual XMP players away.

This is probably a permanent difference of opinion that we can do little about, but first, we don't actually have a team yet of people who are forging ahead on a schedule to create the mod in question. So for all you know you are worrying about something that may never happen. Second, you know it will take time for such a mod to be created. Can you predict how long XMP will be played before enough players dwindle on servers that are good ping to many of us? Can you predict how long Atari will keep maintaining the master server before they finally give up? You know how these large corporate companies can be. I've worked for companies owned by Vivendi and seen games with very devout communities killed. I've even helped revive them and battled management and tried to convince them that they should make good to customers on the product they bought. It often eventually doesn't matter to them and comes down to needing the server or the engineer more than the old community.

But I don't see XMP being killed by a mod. You said yourself you and others would never leave unless you have to. Fine. Do you know there are STILL people getting together to play Quake II LMCTF as of mid April 2004? Do you realize how dead that game is? I do. It is probably my favorite out of all team games I have played.

I guess what I am trying to say here is both can exist as long as there is support and players who are interested in playing. The success of an XMP-alike for UT2k4 does not actually require the fairly small community of XMP players to move there. I believe there are at least as many players who play UT2k4 and would enjoy playing an XMP-alike as there are players who now play XMP avidly. I could be wrong. But it's still a difference of opinion and at least we understand that a little better now.

TherMight

 

[Dead_Metal]

neways - one thing you must relize is that by making XMP mod for UT2k4 you are not saving XMP your merely creating a spawn. This spawn mind you will stay with ut2k4 and it won't generate any sort of move of significance towards XMP if it has the same gameplay XMP does, I mean really why should they go out and get u2 for XMP if they have it right there for a game they already paid for? Sorry but facts are facts.

Neways - I had an idea a lil while ago about making a sort of DEMO of XMP on UT2k4 - mod really, a few maps and we'd hold the content so that it could not be copied. and basically we show ppl of ut2k4 what XMP is and hopefully generate that want to play, because 3 or so maps will get boring after a while and if yall were stengy about ppl adding to it, then we could most likely get ppl over onto XMP. Mind you if XMP DOES DIE, then the mod is there and you could easily open it up to the ut2k4 community so that XMP would in fact live on. But as XMP would be alive, the XMP Mod would mainly be focused on generating the interest in the actual XMP, having more to offer. Er - this idea can be ironed out, but it is an answer that provides both the nay-sayers and the yea-sayers a solution.

 

[SubCog]

I'm happy that there's alot of emotion and loyalty in the community over xmp. However, we need to be supportive of everyone's efforts to save or expand xmp. When did you ever hear the counter-strike team bash day of defeat? Since we're all gamers, and none of us are actually making money off of this, why does the competition need to be so bitter. Each of us needs to support our community in the way that we see is best, but why dog on others who are supporting it in the way they see best?

 

[Dead_Metal]

whose, xmp or ut2k4...but still what is your response on my idea ?

 

[SubCog]

dead_metal, I see where you're coming from, but I just don't think it's a viable option to create this mod twice on different platforms. That's alot of work for something that will only exist as a demo, though I do agree with you that if the XMP platform dies then it would be ideal to have a backup.

There may be something to your line of thinking though. I will pm you to discuss it.

 

[Dead_Metal]

made twice for two platforms? - Only once will it be made with all the stuff, released with 3-4 maps and unable to be added to by the community of ut2k4. In the event that XMP is dead before releasing, then everything that is made will be released as the full verson/conversion of XMP. If XMP dies after the mod's release then it will be patched and unlocked to the public with everything.