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Why there still no 'true' assault-style maps?

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by ne_skaju, Sep 5, 2008.

  1. ne_skaju

    ne_skaju lost and found

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    Warfare was announced as mix of ONS and AS. Epic said its possible to create pure assault map with Kismet. But i dont see any assault UT1/UT2004 style maps.

    Maybe its just not possible to create with Kismet, and needed special mod? Or just to few people interested? :(
     
  2. Sys-X

    Sys-X Commercialized Killer !!!

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    Maybe the community is just too dead, I start ut3 once in a while just to see a handfull of servers with players over all the gametypes and they all play on servers with the stock maps -.-

    It's awfull when you see so much costum content on the web and you can't play them online.

    Maybe it's just too difficult to make assault like maps who knows .. ???
     
  3. Metakill

    Metakill Inhumane

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    Maybe because nobody has made a custom Assault gametype yet? WAR is not at all like assault. Both teams attack and defend simultaneously across the entire map.
     
  4. Fuzz

    Fuzz Enigma

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    UT2k4 was way better.

    I think Epic is pushing their engines too far for average users. It's not a huge leap, but enough for people to think that they are missing out, so they go elsewhere to have fun.

    For instance, Quake Zero is moving back to Id Tech 3, which is in fact from the previous millennium. They do this because they want to target a large audience.

    Maybe if Epic refined Unreal Engine 2 and made a real good game based on it, that could be a major breakthrough in online gaming.

    I'm getting myself a new computer, but I'll be darned if I find out that none is playing UT3 online because of what I just wrote.

    I also would like to see UE2 become fully open source. That would be totally awesome.
     
  5. iCQ

    iCQ Softice/MASM reverse engineer

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    Same here, i got 2 parties (read: groups of friends) here trying to set up custom map servers (vctf) and both having problems getting people to join.

    One guy spend hours and hours making some maps... and i could hear in his voice the disapointment that people simply not play it.

    Strange enough... there is a group(read: clan) of 'kids' (sorry) who made some real amature maps with crazy @ss weapon mods (almost unplayable) and their server is way populair. (HEDSTEEM clan server)

    The most populair server (UMG) is now finally going into custom maps... but i hate to go there since Bob is actively promoting playing NO-LICENCE... i hate to see those freeloaders whilst we need paying costumers in order to make epic not drop us, PC gamers, like a brick.

    (actually i condem anyone who plays UMG atm, its SOO wrong, hell UMGBob even has wartourist promote his cracked server on the official EPIC forums... insane!)

    Omg... sooooo off topic sorry ne_skaju
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2008
  6. Wail of Suicide

    Wail of Suicide Member

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    Well, here's a suggestion for you: Turn Islander into a true assault map. It's about 75% an Assault map right now. You just need to remove focus from the orb / powernodes and make it about doing a series of objectives.

    E.G.:
    -Capture the Forward Outpost (Shaped Charge area) and the Air Node
    -Destroy the Barricades to allow your vehicles to enter the base.
    -Drive a vehicle onto the pressure plate to open the power conduits
    -Deactivate (3) power conduits in the base to open the garage
    -Destroy the enemy power core
     
  7. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    You could easily make several of the stock maps into more assault like levels by removing one of the power cores and changing how people spawn. You could make those changes in Kismet.
     
  8. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    Thats pretty much exactly what you'll be getting yourself into with UT3, in a nutshell, hell if you look at the GameSpy stats, UT3 only has around 500 players total, it's allways had more servers than players really.

    I don't even hold out any hope for the MSUC, sure there will be mod teams willing to see it to the door, there's and engine license and a million bux at stake afterall, someone will want to claim that prize for sure, but i doubt many players will stick around for it.
     
  9. Fuzz

    Fuzz Enigma

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    Hopefully players will return once system requirements are met by common, average computers.

    I still would like a new computer, so I'll get that regardless.

    Gametypes where players respawn several times in a match is unrealistic, but fine with me. Most games still have a decent singleplayer campaign that get players addicted.

    What game developers really should do is focus on mass market and optimize for older systems. Most people could play Q3A, but they needed a GPU. I got mine four years afterward and the game is still quite impressive.

    I'm not sure what I dislike about UT3, maybe it's just too much everything and yet too little in some areas. It's kind of imbalanced. Maps are huge, detailed, but few. Menus are overwhelming, but not many useful options or mutators. I like most of it and eventually there will be plenty of everything, just like when UT2k3 turned into UT2k4 and then UT2k4 ECE. Not much to do except being patient.

    We still have UT2k4 to monkey around with, why not move all community efforts back there?
     
  10. heyqule

    heyqule New Member

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    and you have to modify the score system... so the game runs only 2 rounds. :D
     
  11. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    Nope, we've been through all this before, "all the students have finals, once thouse are over the servers will be bursting with players!", "the game was advertized really poorly, people probably don't know about it yet, but they will come!", "Tons of people probably got CoD4 or the Orange box for X-mas, but you'll see, soon they will pick up a copy of UT3 and the servers will fill up!", "wow the MSUC is here! now things will get into gear!", "i'll bet once the second patch is out the people will come!", "people must be growing tired of CoD4 and TF2 by now, UT3 can only get more players then!", "the third patch is allmost here! woo! now things will pick up!"..

    It's time to wake up and smell the coffee, UT3 player counts started out depressing, and they have only gotten worse ever since, the only thing that could potentially have saved it was if Epic had done a bang up job giving it speedy patches and bonus packs shortly after release, but they didn't do that, and it's way too late now, hell, i don't think Epic will release anything huge in the future either, just what they must to keep the MSUC alive, if that.

    Fact of the matter is that UT3 has actually not sold that poorly, it was no giant hit or anything, but there's no shortage of copies in circulation, yet only around 500 people actually play this game if GameSpy is to be belived, and there is only one explination for that many people buying the game yet not playing it, they dont want to play it, they are not happy with it.

    That's my wet dream right there, if we could just go back, but i don't think its happening, history just doesen't support it, lots of people didn't like UT2k3, but that didn't mean they went back to modding UT, and the same is true for just about any other franchise you can think of, teams will often finish the version they where working on, but then they move on, or go elsewhere if the new game bombs.
    And new mod teams are avoiding it like the plague, even with the MSUC, i have seen many modders on various PC gaming forums and IRC channels drop the idea of using UT3, simply because nobody plays it.


    Im not about to tell you what games you should or should not buy or play, i'm just telling it like i see it, i don't think UT3 has any bright future instore for it, a very small but hardcore fanbase will undoubtedly continue to play it for a good while still, like they have been till now, but i don't see that fanbase getting bigger, only smaller, because i just don't see Epic doing what needs to be done to salvage the game, and even if they did, it's probably too late now, more so because Epic has really angered alot of PC gamers as of late with very unfortunate comments in interviews.

    I think it would take something huge, nay, a miricle to change things.
     
  12. ne_skaju

    ne_skaju lost and found

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    UT3:Source mod anyone? Just weird idea.

    BTW, Jailbreak is much more popular as Half-Life 2 modification, only because Hl2 is more popular. Even if gameplay somewhat boring in JB:source, unlike UT JB style.

    What if someone could make UT3:Source with assault, of course, attached. What do you think, there 'd be more players? (do not forget about cool thing called steam community; thats why JB:Source popular)
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2008
  13. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    Grobut, I don't see anything wrong with being hopeful new people might try the game and play it. I think everyone realizes that UT3 is probably never going to have a ton of players, but as long as some people play it you can find a game.
     
  14. UndeadRoadkill

    UndeadRoadkill New Member

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    I used to play on UMG all the time, it was one of the only servers around me with a decent ping that had players. But I don't want to download a bunch of custom crap, I don't play this game that often, and I need the HD space. So now I have to scratch UMG off the list, and there's barely anything else left.
     
  15. Wormbo

    Wormbo Administrator Staff Member

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    There's no Assault in UT3, only an extended version of Onslaught, now called Warfare. There can be no "real" Assault maps if there's no Assault gametype.
     
  16. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    I never said it was bad to be optimistic, just that i don't think it's going to pan out that way, sure there will be a small trickle of new players picking up the game over time, but i'd say there's also a small trickle leaving it (people grow bored of only having a few worthwhile servers to choose from, and besides that, UT3 does have its problems), i don't think the player base is about to grow in any meaningfull way, barring something very huge happening, and the trend we've seen suggests it's more liely to go in the opposite direction.

    There's a difference between choosing an optimistic outlook, and setting yourself up for an obvious heartbreak, and i'd say if you are going into UT3 expecting a lively playerbase and full servers galore, you are setting yourself up for heartbreak.
    And i've seen alot of posters here on Buf go from beeing optimistic, making predictions about "when this happens, UT3 will become popular!", and watch them turn more and more bitter and heartbroken as the months draggen on, Epic kept sticking their feet in their mouthes, and the players left the scene, alot of the posters who are giving UT3 serious flak right now used to flame me silly for anything even remotely unkind i said about the game at launch ;)

    It has a it's playerbase, one might even choose to call it "tight knit", or "dedicated", but large it is certainly not, last i searched for servers i had to look outside my countries borders to find a game with players in it, and the numbers have gone down considderably since then (no i'm not big on online play as you know, but i have tried just to see what it was like, turns out it came with German subtitles :lol:).


    Like i said, i'm not about to tell people what they should or should not buy or play, i'm just sharing my outlook on it, bleak though it may be, but i really don't think UT3 is about to have a huge revival or anything, i just don't see it.
    Perhabs if they go into the game with more true to life expectations than i did, they will be the better for it, because my experiance was definately taken down several pegs by dissapointment with the game.


    Wait, wasen't this thread about AS maps? huh.. perhabs we should get back to the topic..
     
  17. UndeadRoadkill

    UndeadRoadkill New Member

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  18. SirYawnalot

    SirYawnalot Slapping myself in the face

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    Barely anyone made proper Assault maps even when it was a supported gametype. It doesn't surprise me we haven't seen any for UT3 so far.
     
  19. Kyllian

    Kyllian if (Driver == Bot.Pawn); bGTFO=True;

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    Exactly. Most of the stuff that made it Assault has been ripped out and would have to be re-added by hand

    I've seen only one map that even remotely resembles Assault but instead of one team defend/one attack, it's "both teams fight side-by-side to finish their objectives(see: nodes) faster"
     
  20. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    AS allways had all odds against it, the maps where much harder to make than maps for other gametypes, and it was allways harder to get it working Online, since it needed teamplay, in CTF or DoM you could pretty much just lone-wolf it and have a fun game, but AS required more of players (and at the time, "ego shooters" where still in), and to be honest, playing defense was allways a tad on the boring side, so it never made it big online (lots of us played it offline though).

    And it just didn't pan out in 2k4, i can't quite put my finger on what it was, but whatever the reason, it was less fun in 2k4 than it was in UT, and ofcourse, ONS was the new thing, and what people wanted to play, so AS never really got a fair chance in 2k4.


    But that said, there is nothing wrong with the gametype, it could be great, it just needs to be exicuted propperly, in short, if its maps where made in the same way Tactical shooters do things, it could be a ton of fun, and i think it would become popular too.

    First off they need to get rid of static defending, just standing on the same ledge shooting at waves of players that allways come from the same place is just dull, its not fun, instead, look at how maps in a game like Red Orchestra is layed out (dont mind the theme, just look at layouts), here you often have one team needing to defend a location, and the other team needing to take it, but it is much more fluid, there's usually many ways the attacks can choose to attack, and the defenders are allways kept on their toes, and need to cover several access points, they need to move around in response to the attacks, and even if you have been defending the same bombed out house for the last 10 minutes, it manages to stay fun.

    That's the sort of thing AS needs, if you could give it gameplay like that i think it would be a hit.
     

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