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Why the low UT3 adoption?

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by TehLlama, Aug 12, 2009.

  1. brdempsey69

    brdempsey69 Original UT Owns !!

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    BINGO !! That's exactly where the wrong turn was taken regarding UT3 and the results speak for themself as to "Why the low UT3 adoption ".
     
  2. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    Eh, it's one of the bigger mistakes they made with UT3, no question about that, i don't think anyone liked the Gamespy integration (some may not have been too bothered by it, but actually liked it? i doubt that), but it's hardly the sole cause of the games problems.

    Honestly, it's hopeless trying to pinpoint any one thing that killed it, there's just so many things that where omitted, broken, terribly unpolished or bothersome, most of which has never been adressed by the lackluster post release support (or where fixed much too late because they where buissy making GoW2 and the Xbox version), and any one of them could be the deal breaker for countless gamers out there, and add them all togeather and you have ohh so many many reasons to not play this game.
     
  3. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    I like to think that it's more an indication of how the project was going than anything else. Of course there were other issues, however the GameSpy integration started putting people off of the game months before anyone even knew the game was going to be released this decade.

    I was one of the few who wasn't terribly concerned with it at first, but time has proven me wrong several times over. GameSpy has had issues no less than every 3 months since UT3 came out, from not listing servers properly to not listing them at all, going down making it so nobody can even play the game online at all to just simply being integrated poorly.

    And in my opinion, you need look no farther to Borderlands to see that GameSpy integration simply doesn't work well no matter where you put it. Its feature set is so far behind its competitors that I hope they are paying people to use it and not vice versa.
     
  4. Bi()ha2arD

    Bi()ha2arD Toxic!

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    idd.

    Dublicate login detected.

    FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!
     
  5. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    You wont hear me argue with that Brizz, Gamespy is pants and it allways has been, not a single game has been made better by using that filth, and it has undoubtedly cost UT3 some players, if not directly because of it's annoyances, then as a final straw that made them ragequit the game.
    And i don't think anyone is stoked about their handling of the MSUC either.

    Like i said, using it was one of Epic's bigger mistakes, i don't think it made a single person out there happy, and yes, it is indicative of the lack of commitment that has dogged this game since before it's release, and ever since, and really, thats the real thing that killed UT3 for me, we probably have Midway to thank for the horrid launch the game got, but it was Epic who said "no we wont fix this and that, it's not a priority" in the months and years to come, lack of commitment, plain and simple.

    But to say that Gamespy is the definitive reason for the game's problems is incorrect, as it has mainly been a thorn in the spine of the few people who actually played UT3 for any length of time, but as the server browser has made obvious, not nearly enough people ever did that, this very forum is chock full of people who own the game, but has never logged any significant amount of houers playing it (and yes i am one of them), most of us didn't even get a chance for Gamespy to annoy us, we where turned off by the game long before then.

    There where, and still are so many other potential deal breakers in this game, it's little wonder it caught the express line to obscurity, and Epic has done nothing about that, they have released a few patches and a little bit of extra content, all amied at pleasing the few people who where still playing it, but they have done precious little to broaden the game's appeal, to bring back all thouse of us who where very unhappy with the game, instead they ignored us, banned us from their forums, and told us we where not a priority, and that may just be the biggest mistake they made with UT3, the game was allready short on players, and Epic did a bang up job alienating the rest of us who wheren't playing, well, no players = no game, and here we are.

    And i'm not even talking about the people who had unreasonable demands (you know, "make it play like UT2004" or "Bring back the tournament", we all knew thouse things would never happen), most people had much more reasonable demands, they wanted stuff like the Instant Action menu brought up to speed, custom crosshairs, an option to turn off brightskins, piped weapon switching, the mouse wheel to adjust view in vehicals and so on, all things Epic could have done, that would only have had a positive effect on the game and it's player counts, but Epic just wasen't commited to making thease things happen, infact, it seems they just wheren't commited to make UT3 happen.
     
  6. shoptroll

    shoptroll Active Member

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    Ding ding! Not to mention the fact that my login for Borderlands and UT3 are completely different despite being the same account.

    Borderlands at least has some excuse for using GS as they don't have dedicated servers. UT3's usage of GS is essentially Epic couldn't be arsed to host their master server. Which is weird given they had no issue providing that service for the 4 previous Unreal games. Although this could be a publisher thing, since I think Infogrames/Atari were responsible for the U2XMP master server? Maybe Midway didn't have the resources?
     
  7. Nereid

    Nereid ・ ω ・

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    Gamespy hosts the UT and UT2004 master servers too.
     
  8. madspacemarinemustdie

    madspacemarinemustdie ...

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    Expecting a UT that plays like the other UTs isn't unreasonable. But I guess you're not a 2K4 "fan"... ;)

    Maybe EPIC could have kept both playstyles but confined to specific gametypes. Could have worked. Or not. But I think Epic made their money with UT3. I don't even know how many times I bought the game, and threw it away, because I don't like it.

    'Hope nobody gets offended and angry about that post. Good morning everyone. :)
     
  9. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    It wasen't an unreasonable expectation before the game was released, no, but after the fact, considdering they had obviously gone for a different feel, it should be obvious to anyone that they wheren't going to suddenly change the whole feel of the game with a patch, we all knew that was never going to happen.

    As for my view on UT2004, i was not a huge fan of it's vanilla settings, the positive feedback loops, and the weak weapons, the neigh useless starting weapon, it was a very unforgiving game that favoured the better players, allways, and i think that's flawed design, there should be a way for underdogs to make a comback, and UT2004 just didn't have that.

    Still, it remains in my regular rotation, because the beuty of UT2004 is that "if you don't like it, just change it!", with the right options checked and the right mutators, it's a ton of fun, there's just so much you can do with the game because it has excellent options, and is a very good modding platform.

    That's definately something they could have considdered, at the very least, they could have made a good UT2004 legacy mutator, so 2K4 fans had something to hang their hat on.

    But this really just underlines one thing UT3 sorely lacked, choice, unlike UT and 2K4, which both offered lots of options for different kinds of players, be it how you wanted to setup your game, and all the way down varied visual themes in maps, a wide selection of player models, how you wanted your hud and crosshair to look, UT3 offers allmost nothing of the sort, the menu's offer just a fraction of all thease choices, even less so if you are an offline player, all the player models have a similar bloated look to them and just a few themes, all the maps have like 4 themes and even thouse are quite similar, and there was not even a good selection of varied sized maps, they where mostly all small to medium (only Warfare offered something more there).

    I think that's where UT3 has departed the most from it's younger siblings, it failed to offer variety, UT and 2K4, even 2K3 to a slightly lesser extend, all excelled at choice and variety, there was a little something for allmost everyone, but UT3, well, you either love it's GoW'ish looks and vanille play, or you are **** out of luck, because there's not much you can do about it, and it's not nearly as good a mod platform as the old ones where.
     
  10. Fuzz

    Fuzz Enigma

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    Awesome critic.
     
  11. DarkSonny

    DarkSonny Beware!

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    Do you think guys if the matter or issue for ut3 ( if were the case ) is a matter of taste or playstyle in UT3?

    If were a matter of taste. Maybe the solution ( i dont know if could be made in programming or not ...they know well if could be done or not ) is this:

    I dont know what would happen if gamespy isn't inside the game ( Nereid says GS was here since ut goty.. -dunno cant remember well -) but probably things would be different in reallife for playing ut3 ( would avoid piss off massively players from ut3). Next UT would work if Steam uses their login system for me is very easy and handy (its only my thought dont bite me! XD )

    - Warfare in ut3 style (orb system + hoverboard system for large mapscale )
    - DeathMacth with UT style
    - CTF with ut style ( include the trasnloc )
    - Classic Domination with ut style
    - Bombing Run with 2k4 style
    - Assault ( is useleess talk of assault if warfare is in it ) with ut style
    - Invasion ( dunno with style may work well with this gametype )
    - VCTF with UT3 style.

    Thinking very well Epic will do not make all this gametypes because all amount of huge work and maps, the ones who likes to play the 2k4 version, the ones who likes to play ut or ut3 its impossible to gain all kind of tastes from all players in UT series. Also for every gametype with ther player movements style, weapons switches and firing ratios for every weapon, mapscales with their own ini files.

    In other words; Maybe creating a multiplayer style movement for every gametype with an menu choosing from it solve the problem of the tastes.

    Anyway im agreed with Brizz, gayspy carried many players to another game or leave it. Im wondering anyway if this is the main reason for the few server and player populated in browser. I cant find an logic explanation for that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2009
  12. Fuzz

    Fuzz Enigma

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    UT is history. There are easier to make more money. Let me list some things.

    • Feature only a singleplayer campaign that everyone wants to try.
    • Don't waste money, time and effort maintaining any multiplayer gametype.
    • Use a format that is harder to pirate. (More copies sold for higher prices.)
    • Sell it to a system that more users can afford. (Focus on consoles.)
    • Make sure that repeat customers actually pay instead of play the same game over and over again, especially online.
    There you go. Gears of War is clearly more profitable.

    UT3 was meant to fail on PC, so everyone can go buy themselves a console and play Gears of War on X360 instead of hanging around, freeloading, wasting precious bandwidth on custom made content that none get paid for.

    UDK is another example of intellectual bankruptcy, like the lack of willpower and creativity to make the engine work for any game. It will look slick, but play poorly over-all. If you make money, you pay. If you waste a fortune, that's just unfortunate.
     
  13. madspacemarinemustdie

    madspacemarinemustdie ...

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    [removed some stuff because of a misunderstanding]
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2009
  14. Fuzz

    Fuzz Enigma

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    So you agree or disagree with me? Maybe both or neither?

    They released the game just to stop people nagging about it. Guess what, the way it was executed, the whining won't stop until every die-hard fan is long gone.

    Why don't we all go play Quake Live or something?
     
  15. Northrawn

    Northrawn New Member

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    Agree on their taste or not, but this is exactly what made UT3 lose the then still active ONS community (Europe).
    About 7 to 9 months prior to UT3'S release the clans were already preparing their lineup for UT3 and were recruiting for UT3.
    And the inactive players planned to come back for UT3. They all hoped for EPIC fixing the ONS issues (mainly the maps and the stuff from ONS-Plus).
    Instead they got a totally changed gametype they weren't interested and that made a lot of the same mistakes ONS made.

    And tbh, WAR didn't get enough new fans while losing a lot of the old.
     
  16. Northrawn

    Northrawn New Member

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    Sometimes I have my doubts if complex matters are the thing you should even bother commenting about.
     
  17. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    GameSpy is obviously not the only reason people don't play the game, but it is the first and probably largest mistake that was made. All the times GameSpy has gone down, the game has lost even more players that never end up coming back.
     
  18. Bi()ha2arD

    Bi()ha2arD Toxic!

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    Cuz its ****? :rolleyes:
     
  19. Fuzz

    Fuzz Enigma

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    Another game Bi()ha2arD sucks at I suppose.

    UDK is opportunity sauce. UE3 movement, collision and net code ain't that bad, even thou I have glitched it many times in-game.

    Variation is key. Epic expected people would make their own, but that can't be done if it's too hard and when player numbers drop.
     
  20. JohnDoe641

    JohnDoe641 Killer Fools Pro Staff Member

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    Hey, if you want to be a troll, go somewhere else. DO NOT do it here but since you already said it, I might as well say something. How could you say anyone else sucks? I've played you on the HOLP servers occasionally and even with my 300 ping vs your 80, you're a terrible player. So don't criticize anybody else's skill without having some of your own.

    If you're going to be a troll here and spout bs when people don't agree with you, just go away or you won't be around much longer.
     

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